Church of Christ Shooting: 2 Dead, 1 Critical In White Settlement, Texas

a reply to: CthruU

The fact that you focused more on the religious aspect rather than the lives saved says quite a bit about yourself.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: CthruU

The fact that you focused more on the religious aspect rather than the lives saved says quite a bit about yourself.

I focused on the irony not the religion or the lives.

But clearly emotions run high due to the number of touchy subjects all rolled up into this one.

So ill let you reply in your usual manner - let you have the last word, but i can assure you right now - you are way way to burdened by previous fallouts with me on other threads and clutching at straws.

But you know that, just can't admit it.

Oh well.

a reply to: CthruU

To be honest? You didn't leave that strong an impression.

*shrugs*

From the shooter's wife:
www.nbcdfw.com...
"Mentally, I know he was mentally ill," she said in an interview Monday. "The last time he spoke to us he just wasn't in his right mind. I didn't know how to go about talking to him about it."

Yet another mass shooter who had been "mentally treated" before his kill spree.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I see no one talking about the mass stabbing at the Orthodox Jewish rabbi's Hannukah party in New York last night.

There were five there. It was all over Fox, but as the suspect was apparently an African-American, I can see where it might have slipped the notice of the other networks for not fitting the narrative on anti-Semitism they prefer.

But yes, attacks on the religious are on the rise, and it's disturbing.

Thankfully he was charged with a hate crime.

a reply to: starviego

A guest pastor once told us that any human is capable of doing the worst things imaginable, under the right circumstances. Him, us, the Pope...ANY human.

a reply to: infolurker

God Bless Jack Wilson!


Good Man. Good Form. Hero.

(edit to add: In case it isn't obvious - he's the man who stopped the shooter)

originally posted by: CitizenZero
What was the guy wearing? It was an odd get-up from the tiny video I saw.

He was wearing a fake beard because he had been there before that threatening the pastor, security could not pull their weapons first, the security guy could not shoot until he had a clear shot at the guy with the shot gun.

a reply to: PhilbertDezineck

Yeah, I just heard that from a fellow parishioner, the attacker had threatened the Pastor previously and came into the church disguised but was suspicious looking so the church's security was watching him closely.

You know also, the anti-Semitic attacker that attacked Rabbi Chaim Rottenberg’s family in their house is being claimed to be mentally ill. But what is mentally ill. This guy pre-meditated and followed through on an effort to murder this family in cold blood.

Investigators found handwritten journals referencing anti-Semitic beliefs, along with internet search terms including "German Jewish temples near me," when they searched the home and phone of a man suspected of stabbing five people at a New York Hanukkah celebration Saturday, according to federal hate crime charges filed Monday.

Grafton Thomas, 37, was arraigned Sunday and pleaded not guilty to five counts of attempted murder and one count of burglary for the attack at a rabbi's home in Monsey, New York. Governor Andrew Cuomo called the attack "domestic terrorism" as anti-Semitic incidents and harassment continue to rise in New York and across the country.

According to the federal complaint, which charges Thomas with five counts of obstruction of free exercise of religious beliefs involving an attempt to kill, Thomas entered the home where dozens of people were lighting candles and saying prayers just before 10 p.m. to celebrate the seventh night of Hanukkah. Thomas, his face covered with a scarf, allegedly said words to the effect of, "Nobody is leaving," and then took out a machete and started stabbing and slashing people.

www.cbsnews.com...

These killers aren't shy a bit about planning attacks on others. If I had any tips for people on living a good life, one of them would be to get out of the big cities and move to the rural areas where you can breathe and think. The environment is toxic in those cities. It's too many people with too much time on their hands.

originally posted by: starviego

From the shooter's wife:
www.nbcdfw.com...
"Mentally, I know he was mentally ill," she said in an interview Monday. "The last time he spoke to us he just wasn't in his right mind. I didn't know how to go about talking to him about it."

Yet another mass shooter who had been "mentally treated" before his kill spree.

I can tell you this from first hand knowledge nobody gives a sh1t including cops (not all) and its all about the perception of doing something.

I had a guy who is an alcoholic with known mental issues slash my wife cars tire and then going to the neighbors to ask them if they could delete the security cam footage and then goes on to ask him for ammonition for his gun which he is not suppose to have since he is a felon with a criminal history.

The neighbor told all this to the cops and despite me wanting to press charges they did nothing nor would they search his residence. This guy is a ticking time bomb and despite all the warnings cops arent doing anything and when he snaps everyone will act surprised.

The other problem is that sometimes mental issue is not treatable this guy is like a 12 year old that needs constant supervision. After the incident he leaves the state and gets caught with a dui and coc aine. Checks himself to rehab to avoid jail and is living in shelter with supervision for the time being . Once he gets out there are no drugs or programs that will help him once he is by himself.

They need to have facilities for those with mental issues to live at so they can be under constant supervision . Even then its iffy since its i very difficult disease to handle with crazy costs.

Not sure there is an answer but first we need to stop thinking that congress under conflict of interest will address it.

a reply to: StoutBroux attacked Rabbi Chaim Rottenberg’s family in their house is being claimed to be mentally ill.
At least he is being charged with a hate crime. Due to the Trmpster EO.

Listening to the radio..... from the time the first shots were fired and the Perp was shot was a grand total of 6 seconds. I can only imagine what would have happened if there had not been an armed response to this idiot.

I guess they could have formed a prayer circle and waited for the cops if no one had stopped the shooter ?

I think back or imagine all those who have been on their knees praying as the sword falls upon their neck or the trigger is pulled. I think a more proactive response towards violence is a better option so I am glad someone had the guts and wherewithal to terminate this sick (snip) before others who wanted to live were put to death.

I don't know what it is about the Miami Herald, but I appreciate how they always show complete clips, without editing to make them suitable for a 10 year old.

This church was blessed to have a Former FBI Agent there. The lunatic shooter would have killed many more people, otherwise.

30 second clip - No BS Editing: www.miamiherald.com...

That security guard is no joke.

Shooter looks to try and take out the guards first?

Guy next to the security guy drops, and even being shot at this guy calmly takes out his pistol and shoots the attacker once in the face....

And I know it must be a horrible situation,.but look at everyone in the video, they hear a shot and lay down. Seems they would just be laying there defenseless if the shooter came by.

You have to keep eyes on the target, look to escape. Some real evil people out there.

a reply to: Bloodworth

You have to keep eyes on the target, look to escape.

That is likely exactly the opposite of what they’ve been instructed to do. If your security team is up and trying to engage the shooter, everybody else jumping up and running around is going to make that a hell of a lot more difficult. I would bet good money the deacon had told the congregation something to the effect of “if it goes sideways and we have to do work, stay down out of the line of fire and let us do work.”

a reply to: StoutBroux[quoteThese killers aren't shy a bit about planning attacks on others. If I had any tips for people on living a good life, one of them would be to get out of the big cities and move to the rural areas where you can breathe and think. The environment is toxic in those cities. It's too many people with too much time on their hands.

Unfortunately, you can run, but you can't hide. I moved out to the country twenty years ago. All cow pastures, orange groves, and woods. Maybe you would run across five cars a week. Fast forward to today. All paved roads, all the orange trees, gone. Roads look like rush hour traffic 24/7, and they are constructing five different housing developments at the same time, along with business and commercial construction. Welcome to the city.

In the short period of time, with such a small number of people fleeing the city, all they have done is brought their corruption with them. They are not country people. They do not appreciate or respect nature and wildlife. They come with the intent of changing the country to fit their city lifestyle and desires. And by the way, they also bring their criminal ways with them. The area were I live was recognized for having the lowest crime rate in South Florida, with some areas not having any reports of crime, ever. That changed this year.

If this small of a number of people can bring enough toxicity to ruin the local environment, we stand no chance when the rest of the horde shows up.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Bloodworth

You have to keep eyes on the target, look to escape.

That is likely exactly the opposite of what they’ve been instructed to do. If your security team is up and trying to engage the shooter, everybody else jumping up and running around is going to make that a hell of a lot more difficult. I would bet good money the deacon had told the congregation something to the effect of “if it goes sideways and we have to do work, stay down out of the line of fire and let us do work.”

One guy was laying flat on his back. If the shooter walked by he was defenseless and would have been shot.
If you were to kneel behind something and keep eyes on the target you might find opportunities to escape or avoid danger.

Without the armed guard it would have taken up to 15 min to report and respond.
15 min of people in defenseless positions.

But if that's the way they were taught then it might help some

Things I have learned in this thread:

1. Guns are bad m'kay ... even if one good guy with a gun stops the bad guy before he can massacre untold numbers of defenseless people. At this rate, maybe even cops with guns are bad because they would have had to do the same thing as the good guy with gun.

2. If you are religious, you better not ever think of self-defense (probably because we want to put you all in the ovens at some point, but that's a different discussion ...) for today it's because you're not really Christian or Jewish or something.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: ketsuko
Been a lot of church shootings, different denominations..not surprising some are having armed security now.

And I'll bet more will be following suit after this.

I haven't heard - did the attacker have any other guns? How many rounds did the shotgun hold?

I'm wondering if the guy was actually intent on going on a killing spree, or was targeting one or more specific individuals. It doesn't sound to me like he was outfitted to kill very many, and he apparently had threatened the pastor of the church in the past, so he must have known there were armed people in the church.

a reply to: Bloodworth

But if that's the way they were taught then it might help some

Having a clear line of sight with a clean backstop, as opposed to having bystanders popping in and out of your view, in a gunfight tends to help “some,” yes.