New Public School approach

gee, so.......if 97% of americans want to shoot the 3% that have crooked pinkies on their left hand......well, then the majority rules, as long as they can elect the legislators to pass the law making it legal?

it doesn't work that way, since that 3% still have rights under the constitution.
so, you want schools to mention the word god in school, and pray to him....
what about referring to the goddess or praying to her, will anyone have objections to that. or allah, or whatever else.....

before the haulocaust, rumors abounded about the jews....they sacrificed chistian children on their alters and stuff like that... thus well, more than likely driving many of the people into an antijew state of mind, maybe even the majority of the people....since hey, many of them also just sat back and watched while their jewish neighbors were hauled away never to be seen again. Considering the economic conditions, and well, many of the Jews were pretty well off financially at the start of the madness, well, it was also in their financial interest to allow it to happen, since it released all those bank accounts for redistribution.
The majority ruled, and how many died?

The majority DOES NOT have the power to deny the minority their constitutional rights!!!

Originally posted by dawnstar


The majority DOES NOT have the power to deny the minority their constitutional rights!!!

Actually they do and have in the past. Check the actual list of your rights as written.

You can't murder, or steal, oh wait thats in the bible, we must do away with teaching that......

I am asking for "values" based schools to be seperate from "no-values" based schools. I you don't want you kid to learn not to murder or steal, since that's in the bible, that's your choice.......

the idea that one shouldn't murder, I believe was part of British laws, long before they they were Christianized.....so, I don't think the source of those two laws, is actually the Bible, but common sense....

and I believe the constitution allows be to practice my religion as I see fit, doesn't it?
So, if I have an adversion to lets say.......um....they idea that the school should be teaching my granddaughter to be little suzy homemaker instead of stressing the importance of her obtaining actual skills needed in the workplace, which is based on my religion, and my son and his wife have the same belief, well, then there is a conflict...

and the idea would conflict with my religious beliefs!!

so, I asked before, and I will ask again...
just what kind of prayer do you want back in the schools, and just what values to you wish be there....since I guarentee you they probably don't condone murder and theft in the schools.....since there ARE LAWS AGAINST THAT, laws that were designed to protect individual rights, as laid out in the constitution!!!

[edit on 10-3-2005 by dawnstar]

Originally posted by dawnstar
the idea that one shouldn't murder, I believe was part of British laws, long before they they were Christianized.....so, I don't think the source of those two laws, is actually the Bible, but common sense....



[edit on 10-3-2005 by dawnstar]

You can't be serious, the ten commanments came down around 2000 BC.

ya, and I bet if I tried real hard, I could find evidence of other laws that were designed to protect life and property before that!!!

But, I believe there were laws in britian before the christians came against murder and theft! didn't rome have laws against it while they were persecuting the christians? what about athens?

heck what about the indian tribes here in america before they even can in contact with the white man?

it's simple, after having one or two loved ones murdered, or a few of your favorite possession stolen, well, you kind of learn you don't like that much, so you try to find ways to avoid it.
quit acting like the hebrews were the only ones to figure this out....egypt probably knew it before them even!!!

Hey Dr, the 10 C are JEWISH!!!! Not christian, so we should be teaching Judaism in school. Also, Greek Empire had rules against murder, stealing, rape, before Christianity. Same with Indians, China,(The oldest building in Rome is brand spanking new to the oldest building in China) Sumaria, basically every civillization. I swear, christians using the Jewish rules and saying they were made for them so funny.

Also, so what is ther hw? Go to the house of a non-christian and kill them? Thats what they did in the past. Find someone eating meat on a friday and kill them? Someone working on Sunday and kill them? If you are going to teach/follow some of the rules, you need to follow all of the rules.

Also, we have catholic schools, christian schools, so forth where your kid can learn how the Earth is flat, center of the universe, dinosaur fossils were planted by Satan, so forth, all they want. The rest of us want our kids taught reality/science/facts at school, not magic and hocus pocus giants and winged humans.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Hey Dr, the 10 C are JEWISH!!!! Not christian, so we should be teaching Judaism in school.

You can't really be this uneducated can you? The ten commandments are first of all "hebrew", and since located in the first 5 five books (Torah) also appear in the Christian Bible and the Koran.

For all of you who are "anti-god" fear not no one wants to "cram" God down your throats, just stop taking him from "our" plates.

hebrew, jewish, there really isn't much difference....since we are so uneducated, why don't you explain what that difference is?

okay, the ten commandments....
the first two establishes Jehovah as God, and demands that they worship only him.....

not a unique idea, is it, didn't other tribes also have names for their gods, and expect the people to worship only them.....I mean wasn't Daniel and a few others thown into a furnace for refusing to worship the Babylonian Gods? Fortunately, man seems to have evolved some, at least here in the US, we don't see the reason for fighting about what one decides to call their God and chose not to burn them alive for not accepting ours.

the third one is about graven images, and bowing down to idols.....okay, this might not have been such a common idea....especially considering just how fast the Isrealites broke this one.....
but then, how would the teacher explain that neat little model of the human heart that is sitting on her desk....it is a graven image, isnt it?

then there is the idea of not taking God's name (Jehovah) in vain, or make false oaths using it......
for some reason I don't think this was a unique practice either....who knows....but well, to me it would be wrong to pomise something even without bringing God into it would be wrong...so, I imagine other cultures around the world have the same idea....
besides, look how well it is followed today!!!

then it's on to the Sabbath and keeping it holy......okay, Satuday, the seventh day of the week....many of the religions in that area of the world would have considered Sunday the sabbeth, since they had a "Sun God", so Jehovah picked saturday instead to set them apart from the rest....
so, on what authority was it switch to sunday to begin with?

honor your father and your mother.....ya know, the chinese and japanese show more honor to their father and mother than us christians? I don't think this one is so unique either...


then there is the don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal and don't lie....and don't covet your neighbor's possessions....

ya, I am sure that these are all unique to the chirstian religion, the jewish religion, or the hebrew religion........

like I said......I think you could find evidence older than the ten commandments expressing these same values......



[edit on 11-3-2005 by dawnstar]

Originally posted by dawnstar
ya, I am sure that these are all unique to the chirstian religion, the jewish religion, or the hebrew religion........

like I said......I think you could find evidence older than the ten commandments expressing these same values......

[edit on 11-3-2005 by dawnstar]

Now that we agree (somewhat) then what is the harm is even "displaying" these ideals? What is the "harm" in teaching these "universal" and ancient ideals to our children? What is the harm in allowing "each" to pray to the God of their choice? What is the harm inletting similar children associate openly in schools of similar ideals? We have schools for "dancing and the arts" why not "values"?

If you are 'offended" by such action why not send your child to a 'secular" version. Why is this the only issue that is "all" or nothing. Heck, just seperate "values" from "secular" in the same schools by area or floor?

Where is the harm? Show me the "injury" to society.

one simple question.......
how much is all these individual schools, teaching individual values to individuals going to cost us, and whom is going to pay for it?

I mean, we have administrative offices out in the hallways and children being taught in the halls also as it is....while we wait for the funds we need to fix the roof that we expect to cave in!!!

ya, we really need to waste money, building new schools, hiring more staff, buying new textbooks, developing new bus routes, ect, ect.

just what values do you want in the schools, and well, just what do you mean by prayer in schools....open prayers being led by a voice on the loudspeakers? well, I am sorry, but you can't force a child to pray, or act reverently while you pray....so, just where are you going?
if not to the idea that you want your own schools, built with taxpayer money and funded by it also......and in the meantime, we hold our hands on our arses until the roof collapses on our school!!!

Originally posted by dawnstar
one simple question.......
how much is all these individual schools, teaching individual values to individuals going to cost us, and whom is going to pay for it?

The buildings already exist, so do the teachers.........just shift around the kids.

"The buildings already exist, so do the teachers.........just shift around the kids. "


shift them where, out into the snow??? We have three schools, an elementary, a middle school, and a high school.....that's it, and one of these has a roof about to go, so half of it isn't usuable....
just where do you wish to shift them to?


and by the way, my kids know that Goliath was killed by a slingshot used by David, they know who Moses, Abraham, and Issac are, they know what the ten commandments are, heck, they probably know more about that bible than you do!!!
and they learned in school!!
along with who Mohammed was, and much about that religion, or the Native American religion, or the Hindu, and probably a few I can't think of!!!

still no explanation as to just what it is you want done in the schools.......

Originally posted by DrHoracid
You can't be serious, the ten commanments came down around 2000 BC.

Even if they are that old, it hardly matters. The obscure 'laws' of wandering goat-herders have not set the stage for global or even western law. European law is based on Roman and even to an extent Greek law, not the talmud or torah.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by DrHoracid
You can't be serious, the ten commanments came down around 2000 BC.

Even if they are that old, it hardly matters. The obscure 'laws' of wandering goat-herders have not set the stage for global or even western law. European law is based on Roman and even to an extent Greek law, not the talmud or torah.

So the ten commandments had no effect on european law? Gezz take about revisionist...............

Please discuss the influence of the 10 commandments on european law and compare and contrast that influence to that of greek and especially Roman law. I think you will find that the 10 commandments had very little to do with anything. Most importantly, the 'don't kill, don't steal,' commandments, well, they were already illegal.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Please discuss the influence of the 10 commandments on european law and compare and contrast that influence to that of greek and especially Roman law. I think you will find that the 10 commandments had very little to do with anything. Most importantly, the 'don't kill, don't steal,' commandments, well, they were already illegal.

Of course the 10 commandments predate euro law. In fact Greek, then Roman, then Euro Rise didn't and couldn't happen until the 10 tribes left ancient Israel. The 10 "lost" tribes are responsible for the rise of Euro everything. They took the "concept" of the commandments with them to europe and elsewhere. The last of the 10 tribes left between 900 and 721 BC.

I almost completly agree with you. Should the 10 commandments be allowed to be posted in our schools? Absolutly, outlawing that is like not allowing quotes by Confucious to be posted. The 10 commandments give a brief but accurate guide to how to live, which may even aid our children in life. Should prayer be allowed, of course, it's not offensive to other ( or it shou'dn't be). Even if they tried to outlaw it, ppl would still pray in school, they'd just be more descrete about it. Should the government make religious and nonreligious public schools? I think only if there is enough demand for it. I do think it is unfair that parents that can't afford to put their kids in christian schools are forced to send them to the public schools. But still, parents are the most influencial ppl in a child's life, it has been proven. This means that despite their child being in a public school, they can still teach them what they wish, though it would be harder. I think it really all depends on the situation.

Originally posted by Mareterna
I do think it is unfair that parents that can't afford to put their kids in christian schools are forced to send them to the public schools.

When the liberal too the word "our" out and made it "The" government they won half the war. Too often people forget it is "Our" government and it is being bastardized by liberal judges making "law".

If the schools aren't working, and they are not..........then take back the schools from the "educate's". Put values back into schools. Impeach the judges that make law, it is a seperation of powers issue, they have violated their oath of office and can be replaced. That goes for the supreme "terrorist" in DC. They can not make law, not strike down laws. They do not have that power.


Take back the schools....................let "seculars" have "thier" schools. Let them grow up to inhabit the prisons............Prison guards need jobs too.......

Originally posted by Mareterna
I do think it is unfair that parents that can't afford to put their kids in christian schools are forced to send them to the public schools.

I keep hearing this argument over and over agian on this thread. It is NOT true! Everyone can send their children to a private school if they want to. The government provides assistance for those who cant afford it. So it would seem that the taxes that Doc and a few of his supporters on this want to use to creat a seprate religous public school, arealready being used to make private schools availible to those who wish for their children to attend such religous schools. The fact is, the taxes are being used the way you want them to, they just are not going to build you a new building. You have to pick between a private school in your area, or a public school in your area. OR you can homeschool if you dont like either of them. You still have a choice. You people who wish to send your children to a public religous school funded by public tax dollars shpould realize that.

actually, I think what they want is the demise of the public schools....but....

like I said before, my best friend when I was growing up lived with 5 or six brothers and sisters, at least....they was alot of them!!! Every single one of them went to the private catholic school in the town. They weren't rich, they were as poor as we were. There wasn't no help from the government either, but the church was more than willing to help and I do believe that this was how these kids got to go.

Now, well, the governmnet, I am pretty sure IS HELPING parents to send thier kids to alternative educational schools....so what is the problem.

and, still, there is no answer as to just what those values are that they want put into our schools....
and well, a teacher (for the most part) and get 30 or more kids to sit down for hours on end, and well teach them to be nice and civilized to each other, at least while they're in the classroom, hey, they got to be teaching some sort of values to them, since once the kids are outside, hey, they return to their old barbaric selves!!!