New Public School approach

With all the turmoil over schools, why not try the "magnet" school approach.

Set up schools "with" Christian values such as prayer and the ten commandments and ones "without".

Parents make the choices of where to send there kids........

I already know the answer but let's see what happens here........



[edit on 7-3-2005 by DrHoracid]

School is for academia, parents should be the ones to teach their children religion.

Originally posted by intrepid
School is for academia, parents should be the ones to teach their children religion.

Well "parents" pay the bill, "parents" should be able to choose.

I agree "parents" should be allowed to teach their children religion and not have it "Undone' at the schools "they" pay for............



[edit on 7-3-2005 by DrHoracid]

Originally posted by DrHoracid
I agree "parents" should be allowed to teah their children religion and not have it "Undone' at the schools "they" pay for............

If your teaching skills or material youare teaching are that easily "undone", maybe you shouldn't be a parent. I'm using "you" in the generic sense.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by DrHoracid
I agree "parents" should be allowed to teah their children religion and not have it "Undone' at the schools "they" pay for............

If your teaching skills or material youare teaching are that easily "undone", maybe you shouldn't be a parent. I'm using "you" in the generic sense.

If a child can't bow their head and give thanks at lunch thats "undone". If the ten commandments can't be posted as a reference of how society should act, that's "undone". The schools have them more hours per day than the parents.

Don't take my taxes at "gunpoint" then tell "me" how to teach my child anything.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
If a child can't bow their head and give thanks at lunch thats "undone". If the ten commandments can't be posted as a reference of how society should act, that's "undone". The schools have them more hours per day than the parents.

Last time I looked there wasn't anyone that was preventing kids from praying at lunch. 10 commandment? Why?

Don't take my taxes at "gunpoint" then tell "me" how to teach my child anything.

Seem like you want your cake and eat it too. Life isn't like that. Just sounds like whining to me.

Originally posted by intrepid
Last time I looked there wasn't anyone that was preventing kids from praying at lunch. 10 commandment? Why?

Don't take my taxes at "gunpoint" then tell "me" how to teach my child anything.

Seem like you want your cake and eat it too. Life isn't like that. Just sounds like whining to me.

Well here is a pending lawsuite in Texas about a child being "removed" for praying at lunch.

About whinning, just do a comparison of the explosion of crime vs the removal of prayer and the ten commandments from schools.


As parents, tax payers, and citizens, we need to take back the schools from the "educrate" metality. We tell them what "we" want and the other way around.

Again the 'tryany" of the minority is ruining "my" america. The "good" of the one does no outweight the "rights" of the many.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Again the 'tryany" of the minority is ruining "my" america. The "good" of the one does no outweight the "rights" of the many.

This make no sense at all. First off, it's not "your" America, it belongs to everyone. I see no ones rights being violated by this practice.

BTW, if you polled people, you would find that you are the minority on this issue.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Again the 'tryany" of the minority is ruining "my" america. The "good" of the one does no outweight the "rights" of the many.

This make no sense at all. First off, it's not "your" America, it belongs to everyone. I see no ones rights being violated by this practice.

BTW, if you polled people, you would find that you are the minority on this issue.

The absence of religion in the schools I pay for is a violation of "MY" right of religion. "The congress shall make no law respecting religion"

Removing prayer from the schools is a 'state" support of religion.

BTW- 06/21/00- Updated 09:51 AM ET, Source: USATODAY/Gallup/CNN poll. Religion in schools. Seventy-one percent of Americans say the Bible should be used in classes. ...

The three major religions Christianity, Judaisim, and even Islam all use the same source for the ten commandments.


[edit on 7-3-2005 by DrHoracid]

Originally posted by DrHoracid
The absence of religion in the schools I pay for is a violation of "MY" right of religion. "The congress shall make no law respecting religion"

Removing prayer from the schools is a 'state" support of religion.

Well, if you put it that way, I guess we'll just put everybody's rights on the shelf so you can have yours.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Again the 'tryany" of the minority is ruining "my" america. The "good" of the one does no outweight the "rights" of the many.

What's that I'm smelling here Doc? Could it be hypocrisy?

Originally posted by DrHoracid
With all the turmoil over schools, why not try the "magnet" school approach.

Set up schools "with" Christian values such as prayer and the ten commandments and ones "without".

Why? And using public funds to create christian schools is as illegal as using them to setup madrasses.

Parents make the choices of where to send there kids........

They can already do that.

I agree "parents" should be allowed to teach their children religion and not have it "Undone' at the schools "they" pay for............

If the schools can undo the 'religious education' then then religious education must not be very good.

Intrepid, the fact that Horacid (and I) are in the minority on this is all the more reason that we 'minorities' should be allowed to have a say in how and what our kids are taught -- just like the 'majority' should be allowed to have a say in how and what their kids are taught.

Forget about the fact that government-monopoly schools (at least here in the United States) are, on the whole, failing the children by forcing them into a one-size-fits-all curriculum and overall dumbing down.

And forget that the American government-monopoly primary and secondary schools are the laughing stock of the rest of the world's educational establishment; while the American universities (which actually compete for students) are the magnets which attract students worldwide.

Instad, just look on it as a basic exercise in fairness.

Shouldn't you -- as the person who is both financially, legally, and morally responsible for you child -- have the right to choose how you want to tailor your kid's training?

And how else can you choose to do that if you are forced by the government to pay for a school that, in your view, is simply wrong for your child?

Of course, you will hear people (like Nygdan above) say that anyone who chooses may send her kid to a private school; but that is a disingenuous argument, because the parent must, in addition to providing good education for her kid, also pay for the government-monopoly school (through her taxes) that she neither wants nor uses!

That is analogous to the government telling me that, yes, I may buy a Scion tC for my personal car, but I must also buy the Government Chevy Cobalt, even if I end up leaving it in my garage.

A lot of the defenders of the Government-monopoly schools are against vouchers because they "don't want their taxes used for religious schools."

But Horacid and I don't want to use their tax money for anything. If you want your tax money to support a school for your kids that teaches them Zen, the Flat Earth, Plate Tectonics, or "chem-trails", that is your business.

We just want to have the right to spend our tax money for our kids. And we want those same rights for you and everyone else.

What is so frightening about that?

[edit on 7-3-2005 by Off_The_Street]

.
.
RANT posted this on another thread, and I think it applies here.


"Metaphysicians are trying to force their way into science classes, when they should be proposing seperate philosophy classes. Philosophy classes where, I might add, all metaphysical theories are taught on equal footing for the benefit of learning perspective and critical thinking skills. That means teaching everything from Plato to Zen Bhuddism to Christianity to Existentialism."


I strongly support this position. Schools have no business teaching religion or religious precepts - they do have a responsibility to provide information and more importantly, to teach how to find information and think critically.


.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by DrHoracid
With all the turmoil over schools, why not try the "magnet" school approach.

Set up schools "with" Christian values such as prayer and the ten commandments and ones "without".

Why? And using public funds to create christian schools is as illegal as using them to setup madrasses.

Parents make the choices of where to send there kids........

They can already do that.

I agree "parents" should be allowed to teach their children religion and not have it "Undone' at the schools "they" pay for............

If the schools can undo the 'religious education' then then religious education must not be very good.

Who gave the "minority" (the anti-religion) bunch control of public money and schools.

I do think "vouchers" should be given to those parent "offended" by prayer in school and the display of the commandments.

Go start "secular" schools. I am not talking about "teaching' christian religion in school, just stop teaching every other religion in schools. Like "multi-cultural" BS agenda.

In public schools its everything 'except" christianity....why is that?

OTS, the problem with schools, at least for the last 20 years or so, is the funding has been slashed and not replaced. Cramming more students in and #/ teacher is outrageous. To fix that you need more money to combat the situation, where are you going to get that? Hmmm, let's look at that defense budget. 1% of that would probably do it.

I firmly believe in the concept of the seperation of church and state.

Ever hear of homeschooling, my good Dr? How about private schools? I agree that there are some things in schools that I don't want my daughter to be around, but, that comes down to where you live. The community you live in speaks a lot of the kind of schools in the area. Take Nashville, for instance. I can speak with authority on Davidson County schools because that's where I graduated from. There are some good public schools and there are some that I wouldn't even walk into of my own will. I just don't see how you can lump all schools into the same group. Are you uneducated on how to raise a child and teach them the way they are to walk? If a parent does a good job raising their children, the child isn't going to be "endangered" by being in a public school. Yeah, I want to send my daughter to a private school, but I don't know if that's where she would be able to make the most difference. See, schools are good training grounds for children. They teach them about the world around them. Now, if a child is shut off from that opprotunity to learn of the world around them, then how are they gonna make it in the world. As a christian, I don't think that's a good thing. It isolates a child too much and then when they do get out in the world, they don't know how to handle the change. It's like a child that's been kept away from all sweets going into a candy shop for the first time. **best analogy I could think of at the moment**

regs

Originally posted by intrepid
OTS, the problem with schools, at least for the last 20 years or so, is the funding has been slashed and not replaced. Cramming more students in and #/ teacher is outrageous. To fix that you need more money to combat the situation, where are you going to get that? Hmmm, let's look at that defense budget. 1% of that would probably do it.

I firmly believe in the concept of the seperation of church and state.

Point ONE there is no seperation of church and state anywhere in the constitution.

Next, school funding has gone up by trillions of dollars in the last 20 years. There was no funding "cut".

Next there is no "right" to public education period. It does not exist.

Thousands of children go to "church" schools and are home schooled only because the public schools are "defiled" with anti-religion bigots.

Please tell me the "harm" of creating seperate 'magnet' schools?

[edit on 7-3-2005 by DrHoracid]

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Point ONE there is no seperation of church and state anywhere in the constitution.

Next, school funding has gone up by trillions of dollars in the last 20 years. There was no funding "cut".

Next there is no "right" to public education period. It does not exist.

Thousands of children go to "church" schools and are home schooled only because the public schools are "defiled" with anti-religion bigots.

Would you mind posting some links to back this up because it sounds like tripe to me. Just because you're saying it doesn't make it a reallity.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Point ONE there is no seperation of church and state anywhere in the constitution.

Next, school funding has gone up by trillions of dollars in the last 20 years. There was no funding "cut".

Next there is no "right" to public education period. It does not exist.

Thousands of children go to "church" schools and are home schooled only because the public schools are "defiled" with anti-religion bigots.

Would you mind posting some links to back this up because it sounds like tripe to me. Just because you're saying it doesn't make it a reallity.

Ok here is a couple of links that are state specific. The first is from oregon the second is from pensylvania.

www.osba.org...

www.pahousegop.com...,242

Note the Billion spend on education just in Penn and shows an 8% increase in one year.

Next

Please read this slowy...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
— The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution"

Dr. Horacid you should start you own private school, and make it the way you want, like that you could be a happy person.

Perhaps you should start you own cult.