What the left believes versus what the right believes

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: spiritualarchitect

Well, North Korea is not democratic, even though they claim to be. Socialism has a specific definition, and it refers specifically to workers themselves owning or controlling the means of production. So if that’s not happening, no matter what they call themselves, they are not socialist. So, no, Germany was not socialist, Russia is not socialist, China is not socialist, and sanders is not socialist. Nor is aoc.

Ah ... yes, the old "it's not true socialism because they aren't doing it right" defense. So we can ignore the failure of this or that socialist state or system.

Sorry but I’m a stickler for words, and words have specific meanings. If it has pointy ears and a cotton tail, and you call it a donkey, that just makes you an ass. Socialism is a very specific, defined term. It’s not single payer healthcare. It’s not high progressive taxation. It’s not free education. It’s not dictatorial, or fascist or any of those other things you use to disparage the term, or other things you want to disparage by calling them socialism. Socialism is the workers owning the means of production, nothing more, nothing less. If the govt controls all the businesses? That’s not socialism. If private owners own all of the businesses? That’s not socialism. If an autocratic ruler wants to ethnically cleanse his people? That’s not socialism.

Socialism is about one very specific thing. It’s the people getting 100% of the product of their labor. Period. If the whole nation isn’t like this, then it’s not socialist. If the majority of the nation isn’t like this, then it’s nothing resembling socialism. You can call black green all you want, but waste someone else’s time with it.

a reply to: Gorgonite

The problem is also that "the left" disagree with anything that Trump does (generally speaking.)

That simply re-enforces the claims made by the points of manipulation that criticism of Trump is equal to left-wing hate.

If there is a way out of our current political morass, it is honesty and critical thinking, which to my mind requires that we drop the "left right" terminology whenever we can.

a reply to: ketsuko

I read the post that you replied to. I do not agree. He merely said that he's tired of people calling his God evil.

I haven't tried to quantify it, but I would say that the percentage of posters here that equate Democrats/liberals with evil is far more prevalent than posters who feel that fundamentalist Christian ideas are not sufficiently Christian.

What goes around comes around? Is that like eye-for-an-eye and soon the whole world is blind?

Agree with you again; the Bible does state clearly that God is not a respecter of persons, for God so loved THE WORLD, etc.

a reply to: Gryphon66

" "They" believe the same things about "you." "


True , but Only One of US is Right........

Honestly,

I think the left and right believe together, that if they can keep this insane tom and jerry cartoon going, that they will still keep their jobs, and the status quo.

Continuously pitting the american people against one another, is not being an LEADER, it's being a CRIMINAL.

Every last one of our members of congress have failed us, by staying in their party lines and being an accomplice to professionalism and competence.

Im on ‘the right’ and I don’t believe in one single thing the OP said I believe in.

I don’t believe in prevention of competition. I don’t believe in freedom from consumer protection laws. I don’t believe in exploitation of workers nor do I believe in anarchy.

I think the OP believes in cNn by the sound of it.

originally posted by: iMnotHigh
Rofls...dude the Left Constantly labeled anyone that supported Trump.

I was mostly a Democrat, and just thought Trump was a better Candidate than Hillary.

And you #ed up sick #ty people, called me a Nazi, Rapist, Racist, and other #ty words.

So # you, and # all the Liberals, you people started this bull#.

‘They’ certainly did. And now that ‘they’ are most definitely 100% ‘losing it’, it’s time for them to assign blame to ‘the right’ and accuse others of the things they themselves are guilty of.

Classic fascism tactic

a reply to: Gryphon66

That’s kinda a fair point, but what has he really done that everyone agrees with????


You can’t expect for liberals to congratulate him for passing some conservative policy that only conservatives like.. lol

So to make that a fair point you would need to list a few achievements that pretty much everyone would agree with..



The part of that is definitely not fair is the fact That there will always be over reach with anything, and historically conservatives have used those , usually isolated cases of over-reach to pretend a whole way of thinking is wrong... which is obviously ridiculous..

For example...


A) It is not that some union leaders are corrupt.. nooooo..
The concept of unions is inherently corrupt and must be destroyed.. that’s right... the ability for employees to collectively bargain with their employer to avoid just being replaced when you complain, is inherently evil because there are examples of corrupt union leaders... that just has logical fallacy written all over it..


B) It is not that some media personalities will publish fake stories.... nooooo


All the media is in a vast conspiracy against conservatives..


C) it is not that many politicians are corrupt, nooooo...


The concept of government is inherently corrupt!






I could go on and on... IT would be easier to think up the issues they do not play that card... Hell I cannot think of one..

a reply to: Breakthestreak

Yes you do... you just don’t realize it...



We only have 2 choices...


1) trust the government to regulate big business...


2) trust big business to regulate itself..


Because by not trusting the government to do it, you are inherently trusting them to regulate themselves..



Where do you think all this relatively new anti-government stuff comes from???


The big corporate interests want to sow enough confusion where they can do whatever in the hell they want...


So when you are against government regulations inherently, rather than seriously examining it issue by issue, you are inherently for price gouging, lower employee pay, exc.



Because those things are incredibly profitable and a businesses ONLY goal is profit..



Which is why I trust the government more than big business...


The government is beholden to us through the voting process..


Big business is ONLY beholden to profits... and for some unknown reason that I do not think is a requirement. The worse for the population something is, the more profitable it is.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66

" "They" believe the same things about "you." "


True , but Only One of US is Right........

And only the extremist believes only "they" are right.

a reply to: JustJohnny

In my opinion?

He has pushed the American Experiment to the breaking point. He has injected pure chaos onto the world stage which has required alliances old and new to be completely rewritten. He has demontrated the ludicrous amount of power creep that has pushed the Presidency far past anything the Founders intended. He has clearly brought some of the darkest parts of the American zeitgeist into the full light of day.

a reply to: Gryphon66

What?!?!


And on what planet would anything in your list be something the majority American would agree He has done and it is a good thing?!?! lol..


Nothing...


He has no achievements everyone can agree on , besides winning the election without spending any real money.. when all the powers that be were against him..


That is a fair and kinda big achievement for sure...


But I can literally think of nothing else and I have personally watched most liberal commentators say that...



There are multiple things trump could do tomorrow that would inherently make the history books in a good way..


1) add another protection concerning nukes.. any big nuclear policy makes the history books.

I personally think creating a group to confirm the presidents launch order for one..

There is no check and balance between the president and launching nukes presently. There cannot be if they want to keep their 7 min launch window.. So the order goes to enlisted men too low on the food chain to question the presidents order by design...

Create a group, even one appointed by that very president to confirm the president is making a logical decision before launching..

Just say 3 people who only job is to keep current with foreign policy and the presidents mental health to make sure an order that big makes sense..



Instant history book status..

2) he could decriminalize weed..

Instant history book status and he could do so by noon tomorrow with no help..


Just change its schedule..

a reply to: JustJohnny

You did ask for my opinion, not what I think most Americans believe.

Many Americans think that the strength of the economy is because of Mr. Trump or at least he hasn't done anything to hurt the economy. That's because there hasn't been a crash yet. Most American's biggest concern is doing well by their families.

A much smaller group of Americans believe that Mr. Trump in less than three years has totally rebuilt the military, completely turned the economy around from a depression, ended unemployment, and I dunno, brought the living Word of God to Earth again in flesh. Depends on who you talk to.

From feeling out large numbers of LEFT and RIGHT Americans in my daily people-oriented job, I've figured out the core issue.

What the LEFT sees as GOOD, the RIGHT sees as BAD.

And it all depends on if a Republican or Democrat is in the White House.

This lady told me that Trump's economy sucks, because her employer only passed along $500 of the "Trump Tax Cut" to her as a bonus last year, even though the company earned record profits.

That kind of irrationality CAN NOT BE COUNTERED.

I get similar crazy statements from Democrats who say they're Christian, but support abortion, because "it's the woman's body". How stupidly immoral (and factually wrong) of a statement is that?

a reply to: carewemust

So you literally can't understand that not everyone shares your opinions on, well, everything?

Wow.

ETA: I disagree with you unsurprisingly. Most AMERICANS do not think of themselves as RIGHT or LEFT. They don't have a series of extremist political tenets that they cling to and promote unceasingly and uncritically every day of their lives.

Most Americans think politics is a bunch of $#!^.

a reply to: JustJohnny

Citation needed. 95% of scientists? Before you post an article, don’t bother, do your due diligence and research the “95% of scientists” quotation. Unless you have a list of all climate scientists and who agrees with what?

originally posted by: Variable2027
a reply to: JustJohnny

Citation needed. 95% of scientists? Before you post an article, don’t bother, do your due diligence and research the “95% of scientists” quotation. Unless you have a list of all climate scientists and who agrees with what?

Do you have a list of all climate scientists and who agrees with what? If not, what is your factual basis for claiming that the 95% is in error?

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: pexx421

As for China, they have grown and industrialized faster in the last 20 years than any other nation in history, with the middle class exploding faster than any other middle class growth recorded as well.

Pray tell, what was the economic system China adopted that allowed that explosion of their economy and the growth of the Middle Class to happen?

I'll wait for your answer.

Communism because the state control the workers.
The state also bull dozed millions of Chinese Family farms and forced the people to go make widgets in the cities.

www.nytimes.com...
China’s Great Uprooting: Moving 250 Million Into Cities

BEIJING — China is pushing ahead with a sweeping plan to move 250 million rural residents into newly constructed towns and cities over the next dozen years

That is Communism in action

In free market capitalism, every party has freedoms and negotiating power to stay or go, accept or decline the pay.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
The interesting thing that comes up in these type of discussions is always the distinction between what "right" and "left" actually mean and whether the Republicans equal "right" and Democrats equal "left."

Of course what we see is that one party cries about the other one when they are in power but then the same thing when control changes.

I am amazed that people claim to support civil rights and the Constitution in one breath and then express partisan nonsense in the next.

Agreed.
Both parties are more alike than different.
The partisan rhetoric makes for great theater.