What the left believes versus what the right believes

a reply to: pavil

Oh oh oh...let me...

They rode capitalism!!!!!

And we won't talk about what they did to the environment and its people in the process..

For me, both the Democrats and Republicans are a bunch of Commie Bedwetters. I am a strict Constitutionalist. Up to me the Congress would have 24 hours to get with the program or get a very unfeeling boot to the butt.

Socialism does not and can not work for all people as t(e number of people increases within the system. If you are an artist and produce a great work of art (Mona Lisa) there is only one. That one can only be shared amongst the population in a museum or other means of public display. But what of your investment?

What if your nature is that of a hermit? Obviously crammed into being a cog of the collective is the last thing you want for your life. Must you be miserable and oppressed for the greater good? Is that not the self same argument for slavery, that it was a necessary evil? What’s more, to keep the money flowing the work must be done, who is it that cracks the whip? Gentle and nurturing authoritarians? Never has human nature produced such a creature. Tyrants that reap the benefits of handling the goods into disproportionate shares for their own pockets before division amongst the masses is the natural greed of man. But surely there is a watchdog that cannot be bribed, but how long before that dog is in their pocket?

Now I could just speaking in a situation that is just apathetical fantasy. But if the media is the fourth estate watchdog to the government, then why are most outlets merely propaganda for one party, especially since it was officially legalized under the previous administration which happened to be of that party?

Progressive Socialism is still socialism even when Republicans do it. And they are no more Conservative than AOC when she is asleep.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: dfnj2015
So..... Has Marxism or Capitalism been the more successful system?

Just asking for clarity.

Successful at what? If you want to define China or Russia as socialist....well the ussr when it arguably was moving towards socialism, managed to have a revolution, fight off an invasion by the us, Britain and France, then survive 2 world wars, and then industrialize faster than any nation prior, AND then become the second world power, and hold off the us for years, all with a much smaller economy, population, military etc.

I hate being called a communist. Anyone with half a brain has to admire what the Russians did during and after WWII.

That said, I do agree with the arguments against having a command control economy. The thing is this is exactly what we have in the United States. We have a single party political elite who pass laws preventing competition creating cartels and monopolies. The way you know we have cartels and monopolies is no healthcare company ever advertises with TV ads to attract customers. There is no need because it is a monopoly.

The other clue we have cartels and monopolies is there is no mechanism like free-markets to wring out the inefficiencies of exorbitant CEO pay and excessive dividend distributions:

These CEOs make over 1,000 times more than their typical employee

It seems to me Big Business is a bigger problem than so called Big government.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I'm confused honestly. You're posting that you don't like to be categorized or judged for your individual beliefs based on generic BS categorizations like "right and left" ... and then you proceed to tell us what "the right" does.

It's a $%&#@ ain't it?

I have always known that the "false dichotomy" of American politics is crap. Yes, I agree with "Democratic" policies in some cases, and "Republican" in others. The long and short of it is that I do not have a political party to ascribe to or that measures up to my positions and beliefs. I haven't voted FOR a respresentative or the President in my lifetime.

I vote AGAINST them.

I do not have much hope things are going to change with people on the right. People are the right are not going to evolve into having the ability to make compromises.

"WE" cant compromise????

My God, what color is the sky in your world?

How about the lefts way of compromising on gun control? "We are going to confiscate you weapons."

How about the lefts way of compromising on illegal immigration? "We have sanctuary cities and we will not turn over criminal 'undocumented citizens' for deportation."

I could do this all day long and never come close to running out of examples.

The biggest difference is the most important one though: the things the left wont compromise on are things that are blatantly dangerous to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The things the right wont compromise on are the defence of the Constitution and the people of this nation. There should be no compromise that is acceptable on those subjects.

You lefties should just keep wasting your time telling people what bathroom to use and finding transgender pedophiles to read to your children at school. Just leave our children out of it when you do.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: dfnj2015

I am sick and tired of being called a communist or socialist.

Pro Tip: If you stop quoting Karl Marx and stop backing Democatic Socialist politicians, perhaps that would stop.

You bring up a great point. If Marx's brings up powerful and succinct criticisms of laissez faire capitalism, why does the right not listen at all to what he is saying instead of just engaging in character assassination of the author. Who cares who said? If what Marx is saying is right what difference does it make.

Understanding what is wrong with laissez faire capitalism is a completely different discussion than what public policies we should have to address it. I wish you were capable enough to see the distinction I am making.

This is kind of the point of the whole thread. With you way of thinking there is no compromise and nothing is to be done. I think government has a role to play but I am not advocating the elimination of private property. It's always one or the other with you people.

Republicans do not like being called racist facist sympathizers. They way I understand your post is this. Stop having a point of view different than my right wing way of thinking and we will be nice to you. It's YOUR way or the highway. QED.

As somebody on the right - I do not at all claim capitalism has no flaws. It is just the best system that exists.

Socialism has a rich history of being worse, no matter how high minded it supposedly is.

Here is the bottom line - man is selfish - they just are.

Capitalism embraces this and uses that greed for productivity, socialism and communism tries to pretend it doesn't exist - but the leaders are inevitably selfish and have the power to exploit the masses and if they don't they are replaced by people who do.

To put it simply - communism is a fantasy of how people want to pretend the world is, Capitalism is dealing with the reality of how it really is.

The interesting thing that comes up in these type of discussions is always the distinction between what "right" and "left" actually mean and whether the Republicans equal "right" and Democrats equal "left."

Of course what we see is that one party cries about the other one when they are in power but then the same thing when control changes.

I am amazed that people claim to support civil rights and the Constitution in one breath and then express partisan nonsense in the next.

a reply to: proximo

Can you give an example of a modern purely capitalist economy that is successful?

a reply to: dfnj2015

When you are trying to sell people in keeping an obviously broken system, the only way to do that is with propaganda..

That is why pretty much every atrocity in history can be traced back to a nations right/conservative wing..


No matter what Sean hannity tells people..


Right/conservative means keep the old status quo or return to some bygone era or greatness..



Left/liberal means change in a new direction..



So one of the most amazing and mind boggling things is the way Fox News has convinced conservatives that the rightwing is not inherently the establishment... lol


They have convinced people that oodles of words have totally different definitions than the dictionary says they do...

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

I do not have much hope things are going to change with people on the right. People are the right are not going to evolve into having the ability to make compromises.

"WE" cant compromise????

My God, what color is the sky in your world?

How about the lefts way of compromising on gun control? "We are going to confiscate you weapons."

How about the lefts way of compromising on illegal immigration? "We have sanctuary cities and we will not turn over criminal 'undocumented citizens' for deportation."

I could do this all day long and never come close to running out of examples.

The biggest difference is the most important one though: the things the left wont compromise on are things that are blatantly dangerous to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The things the right wont compromise on are the defence of the Constitution and the people of this nation. There should be no compromise that is acceptable on those subjects.

You lefties should just keep wasting your time telling people what bathroom to use and finding transgender pedophiles to read to your children at school. Just leave our children out of it when you do.

Delusion. There’s two things the left and right won’t compromise, the same two things. And that’s war, and corporate profits. Everything else is window dressing.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I am sick and tired of being called a communist or socialist. My problem with people on the right is they are always trying to label people. People on the right are always determined to define what it means to be on the left. I'm sure people could possibly perceive the left as being the same way with the right. But I don't think people on the left have the "my way or the highway" mentality as strong as the people on the right do.

You're noticing that because you are 'on the left'
people 'on the right' notice the same thing, reversed.

The difference that I see, is that people 'on the left' believe their ideals are 100% morally correct, while the ones 'on the right' believe they are 100% logically correct.
It's hard to argue or debate with that type of person, no matter what side they are on.

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

While NPR does not receive any direct federal funding, it does receive a small number of competitive grants from CPB and federal agencies like the Department of Education and the Department of Commerce. This funding amounts to approximately 2% of NPR's overall revenues.

www.google.com... 7.15551j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

NPR fund raises because they began as listener sponsored radio. It began this way to avoid any control by corporate donors in presenting the information they provide. They got this idea form Pacifica Radio who began to do this way back in the early 1950s.

They began to get that measly 2% of their budget from public agencies because they were providing information not available on commercial radio.

Later, with fund raising still not meeting their budget needs, they allowed some underwriting by corporations with the clause that there would be no control what so ever with the funding, that is there would be mention of the companies and businesses that helped with funding but with no in put into programming.

So that is why they are always holding fund raisers. They HAVE to.

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: dfnj2015

That is why pretty much every atrocity in history can be traced back to a nations right/conservative wing..

Inaccurate. See Russia, 1917. China, 1949.

a reply to: Gryphon66

It is really easy to tell right from left and has been since it’s invention during the French Revolution.




Right/conservative = the status quo, old money and power base, the establishment, the aristocracy or big business interests..


Left/liberal = the labor force, peasants, those not in power. Those wanting change in a new direction..


Fox new’s greatest achievement was convincing conservatives that even though they run everything and make all the laws, they are the real victims..

The fact is that most Americans are not extremists, and the idea that we are is maintained by corporate media and the politicians themselves.

Divide et impera

"Divide and rule."

Old as sin.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Do what Russia did then. Take away private ownership of everything. Jail those that complained as political dissidents. Kill tens of millions that cannot be converted to their new role of slave. As for company CEO’s steal their wealth until there are now jobs to be had but the government doled slave jobs.

But I will say this much. I saw an exhibit called forbidden art years ago. Under Soviet rule only approved people could be artists. Of the exhibit, one painting struck me entitled Prussian Blue. An interior house painter only had a single color of blue and paint thinner and painted a three dimensional ball using the thickness of the paint for a shading technique. It wasn’t the painting that struck me but the story of how and why it had to be done that way. All to be kept hidden behind the couch as this man’s personal bit of freedom and hope until the Soviet Union collapsed. Then sold for a pittance to have money to eat on when left to fend for himself.

What little life and health that I may have, I will fight to my death to prevent that sort of existence for my countrymen. And can never understand how someone so awash in freedom would clamor so quickly to throw it away. Especially when you haven’t begun to master the Seven Deadly Sins within yourself, yet trust volunteers to rule over you would have them suppressed?

But don’t think of you as commie baby eater or whatever. I do think you are at best quite naive, perhaps even willful ignorant; and at worst a damned fool. But even Mark Twain said “Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest of us could not succeed.”

a reply to: JustJohnny

There is no real left in America ... at least in terms of the major political parties. Both are center right.

They are both authoritarian rather than libertarian strictly speaking.

The references to the French Estates General is an an old one, and though I have argued with it in the past, it is not really that applicable to America in 2019.

Ask yourself: does this action/policy/belief agree with the US Constitution or not? Answer honestly and I believe that will give you the correct answer 99% of the time.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o

The difference that I see, is that people 'on the left' believe their ideals are 100% morally correct, while the ones 'on the right' believe they are 100% logically correct.
It's hard to argue or debate with that type of person, no matter what side they are on.

Bingo. Bango.

/thread

a reply to: pexx421

True. However the corporate media and their sponsors have so obfuscated the economic spectrum that those growing up under the thumb of this corporate illusion have no idea of the real descriptions of these systems of economics.
In this way, multi-billionaires like Soros can be labeled socialist and commie when in fact they are nothing of the sort.
What they are are competing ideologies within the capitalist system on just how to keep this whole shebang up and running.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: proximo

Can you give an example of a modern purely capitalist economy that is successful?

The United States.

Now I suppose you are going to tell me it is not purely capitalist - and that is probably true.

I don't think pure capitalism is for the best. I am for some government regulations - but they should be very limited.

There needs to be checks and balances for every system - as our founders knew. Why? Again because people are selfish and power corrupts, power does need to be distributed to keep any one group from getting out of control.