Transgender children SHOULD undergo irreversible surgery without their parents' permission

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

Yeah, it has to do with anti-transgender stigma and bias leading to job loss, healthcare denial, housing denial, extreme violence (some fatal) etc. all making a transgendered person more vulnerable, which leads some into sex work to survive. So, the only treatment here would be justice and equality which is slim pickens within society today, it would appear to me.

That's not the whole picture... and it's a disservice to transgenders, and really everyone. In the real world, there are a multitude of causes and reasons for people to identify as transgender, and/or for suicidal ideation.

And in the real world, no matter what anyone does or does not do, there will be those who applaud and those who boo and those who don't give rats patootie either way. Each and everyone of us need to be true to ourselves, accept the consequences -- both good and bad -- for our choices. In the process, we can all learn from our successes and our failures, both of which contribute to our overall growth and experience.

As long as trans identifying people look to everyone else for their validation and affirmation, and as long as they are stepping on everyone else's toes in the process, they cannot and will not be happy or fulfilled or capable of loving themselves.

True self-worth comes from within. Not from others. And certainly not from maiming and mutilating one's body.

I am sure your fine words would be silenced if you had to walk a mile in their shoes. It's easy to guesstalk from the outside looking in.

a reply to: InTheLight

I am sure your fine words would be silenced if you had to walk a mile in their shoes. It's easy to guesstalk from the outside looking in.

No. We ALL have our crosses to bear. Each and every one of us. And we don't do ourselves -- including trans identifying people -- any favors by competing in the Victim Olympics. Exactly the opposite. Because when we allow ourselves to wallow in a victim mentality, we are then oppressing and harming ourselves. And when we encourage these people to seek an absolute impossible goal -- the universal acceptance and validation of others -- we are setting them up for failure. A lifetime of failure.

It's cruel. It is giving false hope and ideals to people who need real answers and solutions. The transgender population has disproportionately high rates of previous trauma, especially physical and sexual abuse as children, and therefore have often been diagnosed with PTSD. The transgender population has a disproportionately high rate of various mental/emotional disorders and issues. And too damn often, those issues are neglected or ignored entirely in favor of gender affirmation. So they fester. They don't go away. They are only compounded by the added pressures and challenges of living a lie. It might work for a little while, but not forever.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

I am sure your fine words would be silenced if you had to walk a mile in their shoes. It's easy to guesstalk from the outside looking in.

No. We ALL have our crosses to bear. Each and every one of us. And we don't do ourselves -- including trans identifying people -- any favors by competing in the Victim Olympics. Exactly the opposite. Because when we allow ourselves to wallow in a victim mentality, we are then oppressing and harming ourselves. And when we encourage these people to seek an absolute impossible goal -- the universal acceptance and validation of others -- we are setting them up for failure. A lifetime of failure.

It's cruel. It is giving false hope and ideals to people who need real answers and solutions. The transgender population has disproportionately high rates of previous trauma, especially physical and sexual abuse as children, and therefore have often been diagnosed with PTSD. The transgender population has a disproportionately high rate of various mental/emotional disorders and issues. And too damn often, those issues are neglected or ignored entirely in favor of gender affirmation. So they fester. They don't go away. They are only compounded by the added pressures and challenges of living a lie. It might work for a little while, but not forever.

Actually, saying that people with gender dysphoria are or will be living a lie is just an example of a lack of understanding and bias, particularly after they (young people) are counseled and cared for in a medical team who know far more than you and I do. You can't speak for people with gender dysphoria, nor can anybody except those that are experiencing it and perhaps, in the future, there will be concrete science revealed to help us understand it better.

You also seem to think that society will always ostracize transgendered people and that it will never change. I don't subscribe to that type of negative thinking about this issue because what it comes down to is tolerance and acceptance can be achieved with tolerance, learning and understanding. I've lived through the rise of feminism, gay rights etc. and I can tell you one thing - everything new is hated and rejected at first but then human rights and human dignity prevail.

The video I posted on the other transgender thread has a pioneering doctor researching all aspects of the transitioning and he promised to counterpoint each and every argument posited by the naysayers. Perhaps other types of doctors and scientists will join him in delving into this dysphoria because it may be something in the water.

Religion is like a pair of shoes.....Find one that fits for you, but don't make me wear your shoes.” ― George Carlin

I am reading the doctor's paper and so should you as it clearly explains how their quality of life is increased with gender-affirming care. Also see 'The brain and Cognition' section on page 13.

biblio.ugent.be...

a reply to: InTheLight

Actually, saying that people with gender dysphoria are or will be living a lie is just an example of a lack of understanding and bias...

No. It means I understand the definitions of words and that I do not apply biased stereotypes to sexes for my own selfish purposes. It means I'm quite happy to let people be who they want to be in accordance with their wants, needs and actions -- NOT because of what they do or don't have between their legs.

The vast majority of people either have male reproductive organs or female reproduction organs, and the respective attendant anatomical and biological features. Male children are boys and female children are girls. Adult males are men and adult females are women. Objective, tangible, observable and identifiable by anyone and everyone. That's by definition. Period.

Gender is a word that has been hijacked and re-defined for the subjective, intangible, biased and self-serving purposes of a few, desperately trying to force their prejudices and fears and fantasies on others. Gender means whatever one wants it to mean. Gender means something different to the gender dysphoric and the gender euphoric and the gender fluid and the gender binary and the whatever-hell-else someone came up with to define their "gender." It means nothing.

But the bottom line is that no one can change their sex. It is impossible. That's not being mean or hateful or transphobic, it's being real. And no matter how people identify, they can only live as themselves. They cannot live as anyone or anything except themselves. No one has to "transition" to be anyone except who they already are. So yes, it is a lie to "live as" something you are not.

And we both know that the truly gender dysphoric are a very very small minority under the trans umbrella.

Most important, though, is that gender dysphoria is now a small minority of the current crop under the transgender umbrella. Not only do we have

a reply to: Boadicea

Just read the doctor's paper and learn the facts.

If a billionaire died from having his penis enlarged, I'm guessing no where safe.

a reply to: InTheLight

Not again, thanks... but okay.

You keep championing for what you will. I'll keep championing for everyone to be their bestest awesomest self, no labels or stereotypes or pretense necessary (or appropriate).

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

Not again, thanks... but okay.

You keep championing for what you will. I'll keep championing for everyone to be their bestest awesomest self, no labels or stereotypes or pretense necessary (or appropriate).

I am only championing for all of us to read the newest research with an open mind.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

Yeah, it has to do with anti-transgender stigma and bias leading to job loss, healthcare denial, housing denial, extreme violence (some fatal) etc. all making a transgendered person more vulnerable, which leads some into sex work to survive. So, the only treatment here would be justice and equality which is slim pickens within society today, it would appear to me.

That's not the whole picture... and it's a disservice to transgenders, and really everyone. In the real world, there are a multitude of causes and reasons for people to identify as transgender, and/or for suicidal ideation.

And in the real world, no matter what anyone does or does not do, there will be those who applaud and those who boo and those who don't give rats patootie either way. Each and everyone of us need to be true to ourselves, accept the consequences -- both good and bad -- for our choices. In the process, we can all learn from our successes and our failures, both of which contribute to our overall growth and experience.

As long as trans identifying people look to everyone else for their validation and affirmation, and as long as they are stepping on everyone else's toes in the process, they cannot and will not be happy or fulfilled or capable of loving themselves.

True self-worth comes from within. Not from others. And certainly not from maiming and mutilating one's body.

I am sure your fine words would be silenced if you had to walk a mile in their shoes. It's easy to guesstalk from the outside looking in.

No. It's true. If you derive all your self-worth from what others think of you instead of making that an intrinsic quality you find inside yourself, then those same others who give it, can just as easily take it away leaving you without it.

Do you want to rest your whole foundation on the what someone else thinks of you? That's way, way weak. And if that's how a transgender builds his or her self-image, then it's no wonder they have such high suicide rates. What someone else thinks of you is as changeable as night and day.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

Yeah, it has to do with anti-transgender stigma and bias leading to job loss, healthcare denial, housing denial, extreme violence (some fatal) etc. all making a transgendered person more vulnerable, which leads some into sex work to survive. So, the only treatment here would be justice and equality which is slim pickens within society today, it would appear to me.

That's not the whole picture... and it's a disservice to transgenders, and really everyone. In the real world, there are a multitude of causes and reasons for people to identify as transgender, and/or for suicidal ideation.

And in the real world, no matter what anyone does or does not do, there will be those who applaud and those who boo and those who don't give rats patootie either way. Each and everyone of us need to be true to ourselves, accept the consequences -- both good and bad -- for our choices. In the process, we can all learn from our successes and our failures, both of which contribute to our overall growth and experience.

As long as trans identifying people look to everyone else for their validation and affirmation, and as long as they are stepping on everyone else's toes in the process, they cannot and will not be happy or fulfilled or capable of loving themselves.

True self-worth comes from within. Not from others. And certainly not from maiming and mutilating one's body.

I am sure your fine words would be silenced if you had to walk a mile in their shoes. It's easy to guesstalk from the outside looking in.

No. It's true. If you derive all your self-worth from what others think of you instead of making that an intrinsic quality you find inside yourself, then those same others who give it, can just as easily take it away leaving you without it.

Do you want to rest your whole foundation on the what someone else thinks of you? That's way, way weak. And if that's how a transgender builds his or her self-image, then it's no wonder they have such high suicide rates. What someone else thinks of you is as changeable as night and day.

We are discussing young people here that, at best, have problems navigating puberty, bullying, self-image (media telling girls and boys they just aren't good enough) etc. Now throw into the mix gender dysphoria and/or other emotional or mental issues, separate or in combination, and then tell me how is a young person suppose to build a positive self-image with existing bias and intolerance at very turn? Human nature makes us want to belong and for others to accept us but we all know that just dismissing others' and saying to ourselves that none of those people matter, really isn't the reality for most people, especially young people.

There is no difference between between using a surgeons knife to compliment the mental illness of gender disassociation, instead of treating the mental illness, then if a person has a mental derangement that they are a rooster and employ a surgeons knife to sew on fleshy attachments to give the appearance of a rooster instead of treating the mental illness.

originally posted by: tkwasny
There is no difference between between using a surgeons knife to compliment the mental illness of gender disassociation, instead of treating the mental illness, then if a person has a mental derangement that they are a rooster and employ a surgeons knife to sew on fleshy attachments to give the appearance of a rooster instead of treating the mental illness.

Does that philosophy go for people wanting penile enlargement, face/body lifts and breast augmentation? Because these people also feel that they should have the appearance of something other than they were born with. Shall we just toss it all up and let it fall into the mental illness basket?