Transgender children SHOULD undergo irreversible surgery without their parents' permission

a reply to: Boadicea

I just had an interesting (though controversial) thought. What if the pushing of our youth toward transgenderism is some sort of outrageous attempt at eradicating homosexuality?

Before you brush it off as hogwash consider this: previously if a boy displayed feminine behaviors more than masculine he would usually be assumed to be gay, if a girl displayed more masculine traits than feminine she'd be thought to be lesbian or at the very least a "tomboy". Now rather than being told they are homosexual they are convinced they were "born in the wrong body" and just need sexual reassignment surgery to set things right. Even bisexuals are now being steered toward "non-binary" labeling though so far there is no surgical procedure to "fix" that. But if one is simply born into the incorrect gender then one would not be considered homosexual and the situation could be remedied with surgery.

It is my understanding that homosexuality and transgenderism have a common link in the combination of X and Y chromosomes in the DNA, though I may misunderstand this part because reading the fine print gives me a headache) and that the particular combinations of chromosomes are most likely hereditary. Now we know that once someone has gone through sexual reassignment surgery they are no longer able to produce offspring thus ending their particular chromosomal lines. So if somehow all or most people with homosexual tendencies could be programmed to believe they are not homosexual at all- just in need of gender reassignment surgery- perhaps it could be possible to end the production of the genetic lines of homosexuality.

While it may be a pretty wild theory if one were to entertain it seriously for just a moment one would have to admit that such a plot would be much easier to achieve if the brain washing required for such an operation began with children as they are much easier to "program" than fully mentally mature adults- especially since the majority of children these days have spent their entire lives on powerful, mind altering drugs.

Yes, I realize the theory is pretty far out there and I have found absolutely no proof of it, but sometimes when I start thinking "out of the box" it leads to extremely strange places. Besides, if someone didn't ask "What is that growing in the fridge?" we might not have penicillin today and this is a conspiracy site after all!

originally posted by: Boadicea
This will be my only response to you.

Whassamatter? Afraid of a well informed opposing point of view? As I've said, there's a lot of things we do agree on.

First, just a friendly FYI, it is against T&Cs to talk about other ATS posters. It is a discussion forum. Posters are to address their comments to other posters... not about other posters.

Thank you. I apologize and have made corrections.

But please don't bother addressing me, and in a spirit of good will, let me save you some time and trouble: According to you, I'm an awful TERF and transphobe and bigot and blah, blah, blah... yada, yada, yada... and so on and so forth.

I have not said those thnigs to address you or anyone. In the spirit of good will, please don't put words in my mouth.

Thank you.

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

That was fascinating about the cerebral cortex -- thank you for adding it! I did not know that -- or how it fits into the bigger picture. Good info and good to know.

And I agree about not forcing kids to deal with sexual issues beyond their needs (and years). In some ways this reminds me of the oh-so-cringey idea that if girls "are old enough to bleed, they're old enough to breed." Resulting in girls being married and impregnated when they were literally still children themselves.

There is a proper time and place for everything. Children deserve the right to grow up in all manners -- physically, sexually, mentally and emotionally -- before being expected to make adult decisions they are not qualified to make.

originally posted by: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk
a reply to: Boadicea

I just had an interesting (though controversial) thought. What if the pushing of our youth toward transgenderism is some sort of outrageous attempt at eradicating homosexuality?

Before you brush it off as hogwash...

I'm not brushing it off as hogwash. Not even close! And many in the lesbian community have made the same observation, because the Trans Activism is trying to replace homosexuality with transgender. The Cotton Ceiling harassment of lesbians is a prime example, in which lesbians are labeled TERFS and transphobes and "vagina fetishists" by men identifying as women (aka "transbians") for not wanting their "lady penis."

In Iran, your theory is actually practice. Homosexuals can be put to death... but if they have sex-reassignment surgery it's all good!!!

Yes, I realize the theory is pretty far out there and I have found absolutely no proof of it, but sometimes when I start thinking "out of the box" it leads to extremely strange places. Besides, if someone didn't ask "What is that growing in the fridge?" we might not have penicillin today and this is a conspiracy site after all!

I agree it's "far out there" in terms of how the hell could anyone go there??? But at the same time, the Trans Agenda and Activism is creating exactly this outcome. You just didn't need anyone to point it out to you, or to wait to observe the inevitable results. You actually figured it out by thinking it out for yourself.

Doesn't sound like a competent psychologist.If there is such a thing.

A friend of mine transitioned. Woman to man. Their psychiatrist recommended extensive counselling and hormone therapy before any surgery. Which they undertook, and "permission" for want of a better word from a specialist to see if it was the right thing to do. It was about 5-6 years before they had their first operation. They need extensive counselling even now.

The suicide rate amongst the transgender community is astonishingly high, probably because they irreversibly mutilate their bodies thanks to peer pressure and morally bankrupt medical practitioners.

Transgender children SHOULD go play OUTSIDE and forget about this hyper-sexualised culture.

The agenda is in full-swing.

Only the other day I found out that primary school kids are being taught about so-called gender fluidity and being offered, in their own words, 'unabashedly queer role models', then right after, I heard about this little chestnut;

Children as young as six are being taught about touching or ‘stimulating’ their own genitals as part of classes that will become compulsory in hundreds of primary schools.

[...]Under a section called Touching Myself, teachers are advised to tell children that ‘lots of people like to tickle or stroke themselves as it might feel nice’. They are also instructed to inform youngsters that this may include touching their ‘private parts’ and, that while some people may say this behaviour is ‘dirty’, it is in fact ‘very normal’.

Source

I believe this to be in contravention of the UK Sexual Offences Act (2003) Section 8.

Legalese

They've gone too far with their agenda, and it has to stop!

Leave our Goddnam kids alone!

originally posted by: Ohanka
Doesn't sound like a competent psychologist.If there is such a thing.

Indeed. More and more I wonder.

The suicide rate amongst the transgender community is astonishingly high, probably because they irreversibly mutilate their bodies thanks to peer pressure and morally bankrupt medical practitioners.

It's heart wrenching to really think about. These people are hurting, they go to experts and professionals for help, knowing it's beyond their ken, and they are basically told "You're not good enough as you are... you have to chemically and/or surgically maim and mutilate your body. Then and only then you'll be your "genuine" self."

It is also well known and documented that the vast majority of self-identified transgender persons have other mental/emotional issues, from PTSD due to physical and sexual abuse as a child to Borderline Personality Disorder, and especially autism. But these issues are often neglected (or outright ignored) in favor of focusing on "gender affirmation."

The whole patient is not being treated. The dysphoria (or, worse, autogynephila) is treated in isolation.

It's no wonder the suicidal ideation and attempts continue to be so high, even after transition. It's also no wonder that so many transitioners eventually de-transition. At least to the extent possible, depending on how much damage has been done to their bodies.

originally posted by: GreenGunther
Transgender children SHOULD go play OUTSIDE and forget about this hyper-sexualised culture.

I hadn't thought about this before, but there is probably much wisdom in this. Kids once relied on their imaginations to "be" anything and everything they could imagine. They exercised their imaginations. They indulged their imaginations. They explored their imaginations and the possibilities. And they had a blast in the process!

It also helped develop critical thinking skills as they played (worked) through various ideas and concepts. And in the process, it helped them learn about themselves and others, who and what they are, who and what they could be, who and what they don't want to be... and so on.

Today, kids are stuck in front of screen doing their thinking -- and imagineering -- for them.

It's definitely something to think about.

This is just not right. I understand gender dysphoria is completely different than homosexuality. Yet, I do liken it more to one who experience anorexia.

We certainly are not going to tell a skeletonized anorexic that she is correct in their belief that they are fat! Anorexics live a lifetime of dealing with their issue too. High suicide rates. Yet, we don't just give up and allow them to starve themselves.

Counseling acceptance of who they really are and not who they think they are should be the correct direction, not surgery!

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: GreenGunther
Transgender children SHOULD go play OUTSIDE and forget about this hyper-sexualised culture.

I hadn't thought about this before, but there is probably much wisdom in this. Kids once relied on their imaginations to "be" anything and everything they could imagine. They exercised their imaginations. They indulged their imaginations. They explored their imaginations and the possibilities. And they had a blast in the process!

It also helped develop critical thinking skills as they played (worked) through various ideas and concepts. And in the process, it helped them learn about themselves and others, who and what they are, who and what they could be, who and what they don't want to be... and so on.

Today, kids are stuck in front of screen doing their thinking -- and imagineering -- for them.

It's definitely something to think about.

I was one of those kids you speak of, I still have very fond memories of my youth.
Denying a child his innocence and imagination means their basically being groomed for a life of self-hate/self-pitty.

Let kids be kids! The whole point of being young and innocent is to NOT worry about adult life!
Yet the world is trying to cram it down their throats.

Society is destroying innocence

a reply to: Boadicea

If kids can make decisions about their sexuality why not remove legal age of consent. Either they can or they can not make decisions. If you think age of consent is a no-brainer then the rest is too.

a reply to: Boadicea

Thank goodness that decision is not left up to one member of a transperson's medical team. It's just an opinion piece and it won't go anywhere, I am sure.

So, I was just on the APS's facebook page and guess what?...

"The APS categorically refutes the inaccurate and misleading claims made in the media today about its position on surgery for transgender minors. Media claims were based on a misinterpretation of a recent submission made by the APS to the Tasmania Law Reform Institute. "The claim that the APS has proposed children under 16 should be allowed to consent to surgery against the wishes of their parents, and without mandatory counselling, is simplistic, inaccurate and damaging to transgender young people, their families and the psychologists who work with them.

Look it up for yourself. This is a nothing burger.

a reply to: Kalamitous

What on Earth do you mean by 'well informed' doctors should be able to?
You mean if there is a child who believes truly to be of the opposite gender inside after rigorous testing should be able to get an OP?
Teens can be very persuasive if they believe something and they will come across as really, really, truly meaning it. Yet in real life the truth is still that they have only about a decade of childish experiences [I didn't count the first 5 years because they really don't matter].
Why can't a child who really really wants a full back tattoo with a skull on a motorbike can have it?
If you spoke with them for a year I am sure they'd still really, really want it because they can't see ahead. You can't see what you never experienced.
The frontal lobe thing is also true, their brains are not capable of making decisions for the long term future.

The people who can see ahead, however are the Parents [well obviously not all of them] and most adults who are against this kind of thing. We know that in a lifetime a lot of things can change and that a mutilation of genitalia is permanent.

Even if the kid is right, they HAVE to wait until they are adults to make this decision otherwise it's child abuse.
Or else why not tattoo a 14 year old?

Your argument is totally invalid. How do you determine anything for sure? Because they keep telling you? Oh man.

TBH I have changed from trying to save these kids and the idiot parents who would seriously contemplate chopping off, sewing on some pseudo genitals to just do it. Yeah, give them what they want, it will all blow up in their faces in about 15-20 years and then sense will kick in and regulations will get tighter.

I guess we have to break a few eggs/kids [many of whom will suffer greately -sorry for that] to open the eyes of the perpetually stupid. Because common sense doesn't hit home.
Also during this time of kids know what's best for them if they just stick with it for long enough, let kids prove their ability to make lifelong changes by giving them a Spongebob tattoo on their foreheads if they wish so.

I will sit back and get my popcorn to watch this atrocity.



I also want to give an example of how clever kids are. There was a parenting style in the late 60s called 'Laissez faire', where kids made all decisions and could literally run wild as they wished.
In the 80s, they revisited these kids. Almost all of them had severe mental problems, some had committed suicide and all of them agreed that it was totally wrong and they would never bring their kids up like that.

Kids

This is the fanatical left's gay conversion camp. They've become so ideologically blinded that they cannot even recognize when they are hurting children. It is only about true belief in their dogma and any search for the truth stops at that and they never bother building an epistemological foundation based on evidence and reason to support it. All they need is the faith that what they believe is right even when the rest of the sane world can clearly see how utterly wrong it is.

a reply to: CynConcepts

You're 100% right -- and it reminds me of an editorial I read recently, which attributed this nonsense to the re-defining of "gender" as an inherent part of one's self, rather than the social stereotypes that it is.

A while back, I looked up the word "gender" in some old reference books. As near as I could tell, as late as 1989 "gender" was still defined as a grammatical/linguistic construct. Although it was also used as a euphemism for biological sex, in order to avoid confusion with the act of sex.

Today, kids are taught that "gender identity" is an innate part of themselves, completely separate from but somehow still related back to one's anatomical sex. They are taught that if their wants, desires and preferences dare to deviate from what society tells them they should want, desire and prefer, that they are "born in the wrong body" and that they are really _(fill in the blank)_.

Is it any wonder kids are confused??? Garbage in... garbage out.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Boadicea

Thank goodness that decision is not left up to one member of a transperson's medical team. It's just an opinion piece and it won't go anywhere, I am sure.

I hope and pray you are right about that.

I'm not holding my breath, but we can still hope.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Boadicea

Thank goodness that decision is not left up to one member of a transperson's medical team. It's just an opinion piece and it won't go anywhere, I am sure.

I hope and pray you are right about that.

I'm not holding my breath, but we can still hope.

Look at my addition to my last post. I knew something was wrong here.

originally posted by: InTheLight

Look at my addition to my last post. I knew something was wrong here.

LOL!!! And I thought something was right here...

However, their rebuttal --

..."The claim that the APS has proposed children under 16 should be allowed to consent to surgery against the wishes of their parents, and without mandatory counselling, is simplistic, inaccurate and damaging to transgender young people, their families and the psychologists who work with them...

There are a few too many qualifiers and weasel words in there for me to trust that they mean what I want them to mean.

For now, it's all just words. No such policy has been put in place, so we don't know what that would actually look like yet. But they have every opportunity to fill us in, rather than scold and lecture. If a misunderstanding has taken place, then it is up to them to clarify and specify. How exactly is it "simplistic"? How exactly is it "inaccurate."

a reply to: InTheLight

"The claim that the APS has proposed children under 16 should be allowed to consent to surgery against the wishes of their parents, and without mandatory counselling, is simplistic, inaccurate and damaging to transgender young people, their families and the psychologists who work with them.

bolding emphasis mine

This is NOT saying this report is untrue. It is not actual denying the basic interpretation. This statement is wordspeak and not an actual denial. they say it is more complicated than what has been reported.