Transgender children SHOULD undergo irreversible surgery without their parents' permission

As if puberty blockers aren't doing enough damage to our kids:

Transgender children SHOULD undergo irreversible surgery without their parents' permission or counselling, psychologists say

Psychologists. Not even medical doctors. But they sure think they know what's best for confused kids better than their parents, eh?

Transgender children under the age of 16 should be able to undergo surgery without their parents' permission, according to Australia's top psychologists.

The Australian Psychological ­Society, which represents 24,000 professionals, says the disapproval of both parents should not inhibit a child under 16 from consenting to procedures.

But childrens' ability to make decisions must be assessed by 'competent' doctors, the APS said in an unpublished law reform submission, reported by The Australian.

Oh dear. "Children's ability to make decisions." Because children are so well known for their competent and informed decisions, right? That's why we don't have any age of majority or age restrictions on minors... because they are so informed and experienced that they know how to make good decisions. So we just give them free rein. Right? RIGHT??? WRONG!!!

Doctors -- no matter how learned or experienced -- cannot make any promises regarding outcome. Doctors -- no matter how learned or experienced -- cannot make any promises regarding a child's future. Doctors -- no matter how learned or experienced -- are not all-knowing. But in this case, they do know better.

As the report from The Australian notes:

A paediatrician with more than two decades’ experience said the brain’s frontal lobe, crucial to complex decision-making, does not reach maturity until about the age of 25. “(Young) people are making life-changing decisions about their bodies before their brains and cognitive function have fully matured,” he said, speaking anonymously because his work would expose him to abuse and harassment by transgender activists.

Ignore the wishes of transgender kids’ parents, say psychologists

ALL SURGERIES ARE RISKY!!! Even medically necessary life-saving surgeries can go wrong. Often with permanent lifetime consequences. Risks have to be weighed against benefits. There are countless horror stories from all walks of life who have had adverse effects for life-saving surgery. There are countless horror stories from transsexuals who have had various sex-reassignment surgeries. Unlike most surgeries, sex-reassignment surgeries are not medically necessary to fix something gone wrong. Sex-reassignment surgeries break bodies that are functioning properly.

My gut is crushed by this. I shouldn't be surprised. I know how the Trans Agenda operates. But I cannot wrap my mind around non-medical professionals supporting life-altering and life-threatening surgeries for children against their parents' better judgment. I doubt I would ever recommend anyone having sex-reassignment surgery. But I also respect the autonomy of adults to make such decisions for themselves. Not kids though. Kids should be totally and completely off-limits. This should not even be a question!

We are breaking our kids for the worst reasons. It is what it is. And it's absolutely shameful and unconscionable.

ETA: FYI: Puberty blocker thread and discussion here: FDA: Thousands of Deaths Associated With Drugs Given to ‘Trans’ Children

Whatever it takes to break up the "traditional family".

Psychology is Pseudoscience, so not surprising that they've come to this recommendation. It keeps them relevant...

Keeping the subject in the news is making kids think that this crap is normal and more widespread than it actually is...

It's only going to get worse as it becomes normalized...

a reply to: MykeNukem

Keeping the subject in the news is making kids think that this crap is normal and more widespread than it actually is...

This is very true. Add to it the increased and expanded demands for trans indoctrination education in schools, as well as the various internet echo chambers on the internet, and at some points every kid going through the angst of puberty and "growing up" will question their identity and sexuality...

Custom made medically dependent patients for life. Qui bono???

a reply to: Boadicea

If children are competent enough to make this decision on their own, then pedophilia should be abolished, because children should be able to give sexual consent.

Children should be able to also drink, smoke, vape, drive, vote, own firearms, and run for office.


(/sarc, just in case anyone wasn't sure)

a reply to: Boadicea

First of all, what happens if the parents refuse to pay for it?

Will the state seize their assets, will tax payers money be used? Will private health care companies be forced to include this in their plans in the same way that they can be forced to pay for contraception and what effect will this have on premiums?'

Secondly, will parents be forced to look after their children, even if the disagree with their lifestyle?

If your 10 year old decides to have a sex change and you throw them out of put them up for adoption can you be jailed for a hate crime?

Will the state force parents to do other things against their will?

I have nothing against adults who make informed choices and are then able to follow through with them independently, but when somebody is unable to support them self and is able to force their choices (because the actual act of transitioning is something that a person must decide to do, even if the feelings behind it aren't a choice) on other people then that crosses a line.

People who want to take choices away from parents should put their money where their mouth is and support them themselves, rather than expecting other people to do it.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Boadicea

If children are competent enough to make this decision on their own, then pedophilia should be abolished, because children should be able to give sexual consent.

Children should be able to also drink, smoke, vape, drive, vote, own firearms, and run for office.

(/sarc, just in case anyone wasn't sure)

Exactly. We know that children do not have the capacity to make good decisions, especially decisions with long-term impacts. They are simply not capable of doing so. Hence the necessity for laws and regulations to protect kids and not put them in positions they simply are not prepared for.

Hell, as we all know, when it comes to sex, even adults make some piss poor decisions!!!

a reply to: AaarghZombies

First of all, what happens if the parents refuse to pay for it?

Will the state seize their assets, will tax payers money be used? Will private health care companies be forced to include this in their plans in the same way that they can be forced to pay for contraception and what effect will this have on premiums?'

Secondly, will parents be forced to look after their children, even if the disagree with their lifestyle?

Excellent questions that need to be asked AND answered -- thank you!

This does beg the question: Who will provide (pay for) the lifelong medically necessary healthcare these surgeries will require???

It's well documented the psyches are the problem.....

Tv 3 days ago a one hour show blew em outta the water....laughing at add and adhd testing

Then it got seriously worse pointing out it's all greed for money

a reply to: Boadicea

This really is just beyond nuts. My first thought was......who profits from this? My second thought was, what do they hope to achieve by doing this? Is this the ultimate attempt by "Statists" to assume control over kids from their parents?

And if the stats I have seen lately to the effect that something like 50% of transgendered youth regret the move later into adulthood are correct, the societal costs going forward will be huge.

Really sad this.

a reply to: GBP/JPY

Then it got seriously worse pointing out it's all greed for money

So very sad because it's so very true. This reminds me of one of my favorite funny lines from The Big Bang Theory:

Leonard: You don't go into science for the money.
Bernadette: Speak for yourself. Last month my company both invented and cured restless eye syndrome.

The Big Bang Theory -- Bernadette quotes

a reply to: Boadicea

The biggest problem with people today is that they think they know what's best for everyone else. It was much more pleasant in the good ol days (that's the 1980's for all you anti-American progs ready to scream about slavery, anti-Civil Rights, and all that other stuff you guys supported) when most people minded their own business and nobody liked the busybody that had her nose in the business of everyone else.

a reply to: TonyS

I agree that this is nuts... and that the repercussions and ramifications go far far beyond anything "transgender." The precedents being set -- and trying to be set -- will have far reaching consequences. Undermining and outright usurping parents' rights to determine what is best for the kids is just part of it.

But it is a huge part of it, and very dangerous in the bigger picture.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Boadicea

If children are competent enough to make this decision on their own, then pedophilia should be abolished, because children should be able to give sexual consent.

Children should be able to also drink, smoke, vape, drive, vote, own firearms, and run for office.


(/sarc, just in case anyone wasn't sure)

You sent a tingle up their leg when you said "vote"...

a reply to: GBP/JPY

Same with public school. They'll urge you to put your kid in special education for anything these days because they get more funding with more special ed students.

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: Boadicea

The biggest problem with people today is that they think they know what's best for everyone else.

And then presume to force it on others. And in this case, on vulnerable and impressionable kids who really do not and cannot know or understand the full impact.

It was much more pleasant in the good ol days (that's the 1980's for all you anti-American progs ready to scream about slavery, anti-Civil Rights, and all that other stuff you guys supported) when most people minded their own business and nobody liked the busybody that had her nose in the business of everyone else.

I remember those days too... when everyone understood "it's a free country and you can do what you want," even if said with as much contempt and disdain as one could muster. We could think what we will and others could do what they will.

a reply to: Boadicea

If this were true, I don't know how anyone could argue against children under 16 going to casinos, buying and drinking alcohol, cigarettes, joining the military, driving cars, entering into legally binding contracts or choosing to not go to school.

There are those who believe the government should have absolutely no part in protecting children. If this were to become reality, I believe it would lead to an end to all child protections and age restrictions.

Not to mention, who's paying for it? Taxpayers? So now national healthcare systems will be paying for cosmetic surgery for all? If you say yes to this, how do you say no to little Johnny who wants to have a big johnson? Or little Suzie who wants to have DDDs? Better yet, should national healthcare pay for the people who want to have horns implanted in their forehead?

Unless there is a choice to discriminate openly, its medically unnecessary body mods for all on the taxpayer dime, or none at all. Good luck with that in any ountry's Supreme Court system

a reply to: dogstar23

Not to mention, who's paying for it? Taxpayers? So now national healthcare systems will be paying for cosmetic surgery for all?

This is an important question to be answered.

And in doing so, we must keep in mind that some of these surgeries require lifelong maintenance and treatment. For example, the so-called "bottom surgery" for men literally creates an open wound that the body will naturally work to heal, and so this wound must be manually dilated (stretched) multiple times daily. Most kids cannot feed and walk their dogs every day... but they are expected to administer this treatment daily??? It won't happen, which will result in further medical issues to be addressed.

This is/will create lifelong medically dependent patients with special needs all for the most superficial outcomes... and all while people with genuine medical issues are unable to access quality healthcare for themselves.

Our priorities are really out of whack.

I'm the biggest and probably the only advocate around here for the reasonable and rational treatment of properly evaluated, diagnosed and counseled transgender youth and I think this is totally ridiculous.

In the UK, no one has surgery until they are 18. In the US, surgery is very rarely performed on anyone under the age of 18 and only in special cases. There have been a few that have grown up and lived as girls since small children that have had surgery at 17 with full parental consent and support but this is not the norm.

Of course, this is an article from the Daily Fail that I'm fairly sure came from a link from one of the "gender critical" communities. Those that don't know who the gender crits are, it is the politically correct name for TERFs - trans exclusionary radical feminists that now consider the acronym created by one of their own to be a slur. Is “TERF” a slur?

For folks that don't know what's going on in the UK press, they've created frenzy between the trans activists and the gender critical crowd brewing a controversy that is unprecedented.

There's one link in this article but the linked site doesn't work for me. I've checked six LGBT sites in the UK looking for some confirmation of this story and none of them are reporting anything on it as of 6:30am PST.

I find it really a unfortunate that some here are quite obsessed with this topic and wants to import the madness going on in the UK to the US which is only going to further polarize things, create unneeded mania and make the lives of trans people more difficult than they already are.

Yes, there are serious problems with the radical trans activists but by the same token in my opinion, equal problems with the radical gender critical feminists.

a reply to: Kalamitous

This will be my only response to you.

First, just a friendly FYI, it is against T&Cs to talk about other ATS posters. It is a discussion forum. Posters are to address their comments to other posters... not about other posters.

But please don't bother addressing me, and in a spirit of good will, let me save you some time and trouble: According to you, I'm an awful TERF and transphobe and bigot and blah, blah, blah... yada, yada, yada... and so on and so forth.

Our words will stand on their own merit. I'm good with that.

It's understood that adults have their sexual preferences.
Children with developing minds should NOT be overwhelmed with agenda and topics sexually related.

As far as the transgender movement...

Adults have the right to make decisions to alter their "spiritual temples" or bodies however children should be restricted until they become adults.

The exterior of the temple may change but the xx(female) or xy(male) chromosomes remain the original determiner...
So the children should not be indoctrinated into altering their spiritual temples before reaching adulthood.

a reply to: Boadicea

No disrespect to the non-heterosexual community, I think the children should be able to concentrate on other topics in their developing young lives not related to sex...
If they the children have questions ofcourse help them understand the differences in Humanity.
The children should NOT be overwhelmed.

It seems unfair for a mind with a underdeveloped cerebral cortex to make decisions that will have affects on the rest of their lives.

The cerebral cortex (plural cortices), also as known the cerebral mantle,[1] is the outer layer of neural tissue of the cerebrum of the brain in humans and other mammals. It is separated into two cortices, by the longitudinal fissure that divides the cerebrum into the left and right cerebral hemispheres. The two hemispheres are joined beneath the cortex by the corpus callosum. The cerebral cortex is the largest site of neural integration in the central nervous system.[2] It plays a key role in attention, perception, awareness, thought, memory, language, and consciousness.


In most mammals, apart from small mammals that have small brains, the cerebral cortex is folded, providing a greater surface area in the confined volume of the cranium. Apart from minimising brain and cranial volume cortical folding is crucial for the wiring of the brain and its functional organisation. In mammals with a small brain there is no folding and the cortex is smooth.[3][4]

A fold or ridge in the cortex is termed a gyrus (plural gyri) and a groove is termed a sulcus (plural sulci). These surface convolutions appear during fetal development and continue to mature after birth through the process of gyrification. In the human brain the majority of the cerebral cortex is not visible from the outside, but buried in the sulci,[5] and the insular cortex is completely hidden. The major sulci and gyri mark the divisions of the cerebrum into the lobes of the brain.

Be well