This is what socialized medicine looks like

a reply to: carewemust


That's also an issue here, nursing homes, aged care etc is putrid and I think its more than just a government issue it has much to do with the people that work in that sector.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

The head of the Veterans Health Administration announced a series of major changes at an assisted-living facility days after a dying Air Force veteran was twice found covered in ants in his bed.

www.cnn.com...

Not once covered in ants, but twice.... shame

So, he was doing anti-matter experiments.

In Europe, there are scientists who draw enormous wages for doing that.

I laughed

Ha! Very droll...

during the Democratic debates when a candidate said teachers should get respect like soldiers. I seriously laughed. That had to be a joke, right? Should teachers be covered in ants too? Socialized medicine looks great from the outside, that's exactly where it ends. I'm tired of democrats making socialized medicine out to be something it isn't. I urge people to read up on the VA, read up on the healthcare in the UK or Canada.

If national healthcare is so wonderful why do people in the UK, the utopia of socialized medicine fly out of country for healthcare? Why?

Do you expect them to walk? That's cruel.

We all know why, it sucks, people are waiting forever for care, people are not getting care.

The same thing will happen here

Isn't that where this news item happened? Are you blaming the UK using the failure of US care? I'm not following your rationale?

, no thanks! I'm not saying that reform isn't needed. I think it is very much needed. I just don't think we need to swing the pendulum all the way to the left.

Perhaps that is necessary to cause the pendulum to swing away from the right, who just won't let it go?

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ketsuko

No, most Americans do when they realize that The cost of a tax to create a single payer healthcare system, while seeming astronomical, are fractional when compared to what we are all already paying for our profit based system. So let’s see. Would the majority of Americans prefer to pay astronomical prices for worse outcomes with the current plan where most of us still have to ration our care because it’s a cost burden even when fully insured, and still is the greatest cause of bankruptcies? Or would they rather pay almost half the rate, for doctors they can see whenever they want, and never have to stress that they’ll lose everything if they have the inevitable single catastrophic accident or illness? It’s not rocket science and all the industry funded propaganda in the world isn’t changing that.

I get the impression that most Americans cannot bear knowing that some of their tax money might be used to help people that have nothing.

They actually prefer to pay way over the odds for healthcare BECAUSE it benefits just them and no-one else.

It's quite amusing to me that the mere suggestion of any type of taxpayer-funded assistance for poor folk sends many Americans on ATS into an almost-fatal anaphylactic shock lol.

There is no evidence or research that shows that govt run or public services are inherently worse or better than private. None. It’s all anecdote and nothing but. But they are absolutely cheaper. The only difference is dictated by the people, and people are everywhere, in public and private. This debate is largely fueled by the corporate community trying to hold onto its monopoly. Even if we had both public and private, and had to take care of migrants, costs would still be far cheaper for everyone because business would have to compete with public. Good luck with that for them, but it would drastically and benefit everyone.

What is the eventual natural conclusion to an aggressively capitalistic private healthcare system? As it stands now, cost of healthcare is practically out of grasp for a large segment of the population. At this rate, it won't be too long in the future where healthcare is only for the rich who can afford it, and not a service that the general population can afford. Is the outcome of 'Only the Rich get Healthcare' really superior to 'We all get average healthcare'?

a reply to: pexx421

There is no evidence or research that shows that govt run or public services are inherently worse or better than private. None

One is a choice, one is not, to me that makes one worse.

It is similar to saying what does it matter what a person eats as long as they eat. Sure in theory if they are fed that is great. In reality most people would like to choose what they eat.

The closest evidence we have of government run healthcare is the VA / military medical care. It is terrible. Why would anyone think that something much bigger, and more complex and treating more people would be better than that? It would be worse.

Argh the devil that is socialised medicine, how dare the people be treated in such a way....

All these people who have had their lives impacted on in a positive way, how dare the gooberment do this to them, why cant they pay for a much fairer massivley overpriced insurance system , whereby i dont have to give 2 snips about my neighbour/colleague/elderly relatives, they can die because they cant access medical aid, well guess they should have planned their savings better

Some stats on ths idea from the devil of providing health care to ALL

In March 2017, across Hospital and Community Healthcare Services (HCHS), the NHS employed (full-time equivalent): 106,430 doctors; 285,893 nurses and health visitors; 21,597 midwives; 132,673 scientific, therapeutic and technical staff; 19,772 ambulance staff; 21,139 managers; and 9,974 senior managers.14

Current health expenditure in the UK was 9.75 per cent of GDP in 2016. This compares to 17.21 per cent in the USA, 11.27 per cent in Germany, 10.98 per cent in France, 10.50 per cent in the Netherlands, 10.37 per cent in Denmark, 10.34 per cent in Canada, 8.98 per cent in Spain and 8.94 per cent in Italy.

The NHS deals with over 1 million patients every 36 hours.

NHS statistics, facts and figures

Why cant i pay for a policy which will be overpriced and possibly refuse me certain services instead of this system of taxing the working population and providing for ALL, with no refusal based on finacial earnings.

a reply to: DISRAELI

All of which points to a genuine oddity. The right wingers in the US, Faux News, et al, constatnly point out examples of NHS failings yet.......almost all Brit/UK ATS members sing its praises and appear to love the NHS.

I honestly dont know what to believe.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: DISRAELI

All of which points to a genuine oddity. The right wingers in the US, Faux News, et al, constatnly point out examples of NHS failings yet.......almost all Brit/UK ATS members sing its praises and appear to love the NHS.

I honestly dont know what to believe.

I'm not a right winger. I also know a lot of people that aren't that don't like socialized medicine. I have used military/va medical for a good portion of my life. That is as close to NHS in the US as we have right now. It is terrible.

I do think that many Brits like NHS right now, but I think we are going to see that tide change in the coming years.

www.forbes.com...

They can't even keep doctors:

The NHS recently announced that, in a desperate attempt to shore up its doctor workforce, it would pay British general practitioners working abroad more than $24,000 in "relocation support" to come back to the country. The Service is also trying to encourage doctors to come out of retirement.

I have a close friend who lives in Canada. She called me a couple of months ago to ask me where I got my bypass surgery.

A couple of years ago, I had a quad bypass. Do not let anyone fool you. It hurts like hell. BUT, I'm still alive, and a lot healthier.

She also was told she needed a bypass. The issue? She had to wait ~6 months to get it in Canada. That particular dog, won't hunt. She would have most likely not been alive by then.

So, she packed her bags, and headed to Banner Heart Hospital in Arizona, where mine was done.

And, one week later, she is already out of the hospital, and recovering, she expects to head back home next week.

That's the difference between socialized medicine, and non.

Fred..

a reply to: peck420

You will never meet the decision maker, because they are not even located in most cases where the care is provided. Further, you will never know what the options are that are not offered to you on your menu. As a result, you will never know what you are missing. That's the point.

originally posted by: Fowlerstoad
a reply to: peck420

You will never meet the decision maker, because they are not even located in most cases where the care is provided. Further, you will never know what the options are that are not offered to you on your menu. As a result, you will never know what you are missing. That's the point.

Or, because your entire premise is BS, which it is.

There is only two decision makers involved in my health, myself and my doctor.

Keep trying though.

I will be very very blunt...

Every time an American says, "the Canadian system..." I already know they are parroting anecdotal and BS talking points.

Now....can any one do even the bare minimum of research and tell me why?

originally posted by: JAGStorm
Socialized medicine looks great from the outside, that's exactly where it ends.

My cancer was cured for $32 (cdn) out of pocket. Total costs for parking at the oncology centre. Socialised medicine looks pretty good from the inside, too.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: DISRAELI

All of which points to a genuine oddity. The right wingers in the US, Faux News, et al, constatnly point out examples of NHS failings yet.......almost all Brit/UK ATS members sing its praises and appear to love the NHS.

I honestly dont know what to believe.

My young daughter, diagnosed last year with stage 3 ovarian and bowel cancer. Massive ultra-radical debulking surgery, total hysterectomy and colostomy, consultant oncologist, consultant gynaecologist, TPN feeding for 3 months, chemotherapy, steroids, x-rays, CT scans, anti-hormone drugs, excellent nursing care pre and post-op, and treatment still ongoing. Not one penny is expected nor demanded.

My only worry is whether my daughter will live or not. Put a price on that.

You Americans can keep your mercenary health system that only sees sick humans as $$$$, and would happily step over a broke-ass dying human to help the rich man wipe his snotty nose for a hefty fee.

I prefer proper doctors, NHS doctors, the type that enter the profession to fulfil their need to help others even if there's no superb riches in it for them. They get a much better reward than mere money. And may God bless every one of them for all their self-less, wonderful work.

a reply to: TonyS
Britons at home are always complaining about NHS failings. That, at least, is common ground. But the British population approaches the issue on the basis that it is better to have a protection that doesn't work all the time than no protection at all; they would respond with indignation to any suggestion of changing it, and the preferred explanation of any weakness would be to blame the government for providing an insufficient budget.

There is a row going on about that in British politics right now. Somebody buttonholed Boris Johnson in a hospital and made complaints of this kind, and a BBC editor is now in trouble for pointing out that the indignant parent is also a poltical activist. Just search Twitter on #sacklaurakuenssberg, which has been trending, and you will see what I mean.

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
I have a close friend who lives in Canada. She called me a couple of months ago to ask me where I got my bypass surgery.

A couple of years ago, I had a quad bypass. Do not let anyone fool you. It hurts like hell. BUT, I'm still alive, and a lot healthier.

She also was told she needed a bypass. The issue? She had to wait ~6 months to get it in Canada. That particular dog, won't hunt. She would have most likely not been alive by then.

So, she packed her bags, and headed to Banner Heart Hospital in Arizona, where mine was done.

And, one week later, she is already out of the hospital, and recovering, she expects to head back home next week.

That's the difference between socialized medicine, and non.

Fred..

And what if your friend didn't have access to the 6 figure sum required for the surgery?

Bean counters from insurance companies making medical decisions for patients they insure.

"He's to sick, drop him from the plan or raise his premiums so high he can't pay" Capitalism....the American way, deal with it you commie socialist.

By the way, we in the UK can use either the NHS, or we can go private. It's up to us.

We can choose and are not forced to use either one.

You Americans have 3 choices:
1. pay up.
2. go bankrupt.
3. die.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JAGStorm
Nevertheless, the country would undoubtedly vote, if asked, for preserving the system rather than replacing it with a different system.

Yep. Nothing motivates the British government into action faster than a voter referendum,