This is what socialized medicine looks like

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: toolgal462
A check up, out of pocket costs approx $100 bucks in the Boston area. Assuming you can't find subsidized or FREE health care.

Yah, I don't know anyone who can't afford $100 bucks.

The majority of single people I know go years without check ups and avoiding other care too, because they don’t want to afford that.

The majority of couples I know generally follow the standard schedule.

Key words used: "they don't want to afford that".

That''s precisely the point. They want someone else to pay for their health care. Everyone else except them, apparently.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Unless you have lived for a long time in a country with socialised healthcare, then you are not in a position to judge or make any claims for or against. As a person who has lived with socialised healthcare fo 40 years, you cannot know the benefits unless you have lived with it. It's like saying socialised schooling is bad because some of the teachers aren't great quality. Yet, socialised schooling is needed.

I have never once flown anywhere for medical purposes. If I need something done quickly, I pay for it. If not, I wait. It's utterly baffling to me how you can say that socialised medicine looks great from the outside but that's where it ends. You have no idea.

Using outliers who will fly to get a boob job cause it's cheaper isn't really what's happening. You don't see socialised medicine countries with videos on YouTube doing crazy stuff that that should be done by a doctor. Yet, you see it all the time in the U.S.

But, if you think socialised medicine is not good, then keep the model you have now. It's working for you, right?

a reply to: pacific

Unless you have lived for a long time in a country with socialised healthcare, then you are not in a position to judge or make any claims for or against. As a person who has lived with socialised healthcare fo 40 years, you cannot know the benefits unless you have lived with it

I have lived with military medical for a large portion of my life. That is as close to socialized medicine as it's gets here.
It is terrible. Absolutely terrible. I paid privately not to use it.

a reply to: JAGStorm

In your opinion it's as close as it gets there. There. In your experience it was terrible.

Where I live, it isn't terrible. We don't have wars like you do. I wouldn't compare military medical with socialised healthcare. That's trying to compare apples and oranges. Your country hasn't taken very good care of your vets from what I hear. I live in Australia. It's ranked higher than the U.S. as a best country and ranks higher in the freedom perspective as well.

Like I said, I cannot make judgements about America based on gun control. Different culture. Different way of thinking. But facts, look at facts. Why are so many countries with socialised healthcare ranked so high? You haven't truly experienced it. Just like I can't make judgements about your country on my perspectives and on how I have lived my years, you are looking through a lens of 'military medicine' for socialised healthcare.

Like I said, we are more than happy for you to keep going on as you are. Makes no never mind to me. I'm happy.

I cant see what it looks like due to the huge line up. If only I had money or an extra limb to spare for first class service.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Do you think the for profit assisted living industry in the USA does not have the same thing happen on a very regular basis?

originally posted by: Pointofview
What is your motivation for posting blatant lies like this, I wonder?

Quite simply, to convince unsophisticated voters to make choices that are patently against their own interests. Seems to work.

a reply to: JAGStorm

In socialized countries you can die on the bed waiting on the list to see a doctor. In capitalistic countries you have to sell a kidney so you can get a cat scan on a possible liver issue.

In the end its the same #. Things work either way. But just barely, and by work I mean, most medicine is way over rated. And happy pills is the name of the game on both accounts it seems.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: JAGStorm

In socialized countries you can die on the bed waiting on the list to see a doctor. In capitalistic countries you have to sell a kidney so you can get a cat scan on a possible liver issue.

In the end its the same #. Things work either way. But just barely, and by work I mean, most medicine is way over rated. And happy pills is the name of the game on both accounts it seems.

Sadly your analogy is probably the most accurate. In both cases too many people are getting screwed. There has to be a better way and unfortunately I don't think either is that great. When given a choice, I will always support choice, even if it means more cost.

a reply to: JAGStorm

12 months after the end of WW 2, the UK decided to support and care for its citizens each and everyone BUT they also have the choice to seek private care if they wish, one thing this thread has completly glossed over is the people who work for the NHS, its a vocation for many and they do so with genuine care and pride, now if you can show me an insurance company CEO showing the same care for my health I may come round to your way of thinking.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
You try standing for election in the UK on the platform of "Let's abandon the national health service", and see how far you get.

Once you give subsistance you can't take it away until you turn into another Greece. I remember a psychological experiment where for like 3 months every Thursday they gave 100 homeless 10 bucks each and then they stopped. Every one of the homeless demanded their 10 dollars, it was their right to get it, how dare they take their money away....

This is how the human brain works, even if it means a crappy life there is still a good percentage that will accept that crappy life if they don't need to put any effort into it to get it.

a reply to: JAGStorm

As someone from Canada, I wouldn't have it any other way. In my experience the ONLY thing that doesn't work as well with out systems is wait times to see specialists, which granted can be amazingly frustrating. But in my experience that is also only to see doctors who are so specialized they almost never need to be seen, so they work 4 days a week in the hospital and 1 with their specialization.

2 years ago my wife gave birth to our twins at 26 weeks into the pregnancy, and as such they each needed a spot in the NICU for 3 months. A quick google search shows that in the states, the average cost per baby, PER DAY, would have been around 3,000$USD. That's over a half million dollars, not including the cost of an emergency c-section, the 8 days we also spent in hospital before the birth, as well as multiple surgeries, steroids and all the # that goes with the NICU. How is that even ethical?

Through that entire process, our only worries with money were because only 1 of us was working. I cant imagine the stress of coming up with that money, on top of dealing with a medical emergency. And our care was absolutely top tier. I don't think many doctors could operate on a baby weighing less than a large bag of chips, small enough to fit in your hands, with less than 100mls of blood in the entire body, and not so much as knick one of those tiny little veins.

I also see people commonly throwing around the idea that because it comes off of our taxes, we somehow pay more, or are somehow paying huge amounts while others take advantage. But another quick google search shows that the average amount spent on healthcare in Canada per person is less than half of the average in the states, and honestly it's way more convenient just being able to see it on my pay stub, than having yet one more bill to remember each month. But honestly, even if it meant I'm paying another few dollars a month so someone else gets the healthcare they need... I'm pretty ok with that...

My wife and I talk about it all the time, and I just cannot comprehend why people are so stubborn on this one. Oh, and there seems to be a misconception that because we have "government run" healthcare, that the government is responsible for the way hospitals are run. But this is not the case in Canada. The hospitals are still privately owned and run, they are just funded by the government through tax money. So short of not being able to do math, theres little the government can do to screw the whole system up.

a reply to: Gibbled

Just one question... A silly little question... If Canadian health care is so spectacular, so wonderful, so free, why
on EARTH would they make it illegal to seek private care. hmmmmmm

After half a century, the government has still not honoured its commitment, and its performance declines with each passing year, despite increased spending. Furthermore, the government made it illegal for citizens to pay private parties for the health care which the government fails to provide.

mises.org...

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Gibbled
Just one question... A silly little question... If Canadian health care is so spectacular, so wonderful, so free, why
on EARTH would they make it illegal to seek private care. hmmmmmm

Because to work, everybody shares the load. I know a lot of people...and I don't know anyone who'd trade for yours.
Please, stop trying to explain to us why we ought not to like our system, as imperfect as it may be. What would that be? Yanksplaining? It's not a good look.

Our cost out of pocket? Nada.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Because to work, everybody shares the load. I know a lot of people...and I don't know anyone who'd trade for yours.

Well I know a lot of Americans that don't want your system , we believe in this thing called choice..

Please, stop trying to explain to us why we ought not to like our system, as imperfect as it may be. What would that be? Yanksplaining? It's not a good look.

You can have your system, and you can love it, Love it to death. (but seriously let's talk in 10 years, I hope this post is still here, I have a good memory)
Nobody is telling you why you don't have to like your system, heck you are stuck with it.

We just don't want it! Why is that not OK? If your system works for your people great, it does not mean it would work for us. Just look how many Americans on here don't want it. It doesn't mean our system is not perfect. It can also just mean that we do not want to replicate what UK & Canada does.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Because to work, everybody shares the load. I know a lot of people...and I don't know anyone who'd trade for yours.

Well I know a lot of Americans that don't want your system , we believe in this thing called choice..

Please, stop trying to explain to us why we ought not to like our system, as imperfect as it may be. What would that be? Yanksplaining? It's not a good look.

You can have your system, and you can love it, Love it to death. (but seriously let's talk in 10 years, I hope this post is still here, I have a good memory)
Nobody is telling you why you don't have to like your system, heck you are stuck with it.

We just don't want it! Why is that not OK? If your system works for your people great, it does not mean it would work for us. Just look how many Americans on here don't want it. It doesn't mean our system is not perfect. It can also just mean that we do not want to replicate what UK & Canada does.

Forgive me, but you started this thread to tell everyone how much socialised medicine sux. Yet people living within that structure write in to say...not so much. Doesn't matter if you don't want to trade...good for you. But don't get all disingenuous by slagging a system you don't get in order to further your own partisan beliefs. Vote for whoever you want to...but don't try to make us the strawmen. It makes us sad. Luckily, we have healthcare for that.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

The head of the Veterans Health Administration announced a series of major changes at an assisted-living facility days after a dying Air Force veteran was twice found covered in ants in his bed.

www.cnn.com...

Not once covered in ants, but twice.... shame

I laughed during the Democratic debates when a candidate said teachers should get respect like soldiers. I seriously laughed. That had to be a joke, right? Should teachers be covered in ants too? Socialized medicine looks great from the outside, that's exactly where it ends. I'm tired of democrats making socialized medicine out to be something it isn't. I urge people to read up on the VA, read up on the healthcare in the UK or Canada.

If national healthcare is so wonderful why do people in the UK, the utopia of socialized medicine fly out of country for healthcare? Why?
We all know why, it sucks, people are waiting forever for care, people are not getting care.

The same thing will happen here, no thanks! I'm not saying that reform isn't needed. I think it is very much needed. I just don't think we need to swing the pendulum all the way to the left.

The only reason the NHS in the UK is weakened is because of successive conservative governments selling off the UK's assets to foreign companies and privatising healthcare to match the models of the USA reducing the workforce and forcing redundancy due to closures and budget cuts !

If it wasn't for the selling off of the NHS our healthcare would probably be the best in the world.
Thing is , its mostly England selling off the NHS , Scotland has a devolved NHS and its not for sale .
The only thing we cant determine is our overall spending budget for the NHS which is still a part of the UK government and not Scotland at Holyrood.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

my reply contained all the information required - its noted that you attack my reply - rather than defend the drivel you linked too

its an utterly dishonest use of " statistics " - to push a lie - why are you posting this crap ? -

a reply to: JAGStorm
The medical system kills 225,000 and 5,000,0000 every decade as Dr. Barbara Starfield elaborates in the BMJ(British Medical Journal. That's also by correctly prescribed so-called "drugs" and using humans as guinea pigs to conduct immoral, illegal, human science experimentation of these so-called "drugs" with horrific, side effects that causes harm.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

The overall, criminal track record of psychiatry is as follows:

500,000 negligent homicides and counting

13 billion in payouts for damages under the False Claims Act

5,000 plus additional pages of documents detailing psychiatrys' connection to suicides and homicides

PsychSearch.Net and PsychCrime.Org details the additional criminal, aggregate of psychiatry

All psychiatric so-called "Drugs" are ALL neurotoxins/poisons as stated by Dr. Peter Breggin and numerous scientific papers supporting the evidence of the occult(hidden), psychiatric holocaust

Psychiatry: The Science Of Lies, by Dr. Thomas Scacz

The Myth Of Mental Illness, by Dr. Thomas Scasz

The Psychiatric Hoax and The Subversion of Medicine -by CCHR.org

Psychiatry: An Industry Of Death -by CCHR.org

Other numerous court cases in the U. S. that have been prosecuted by the DOJ

C. I. A. Doctors: Human Rights Violations By Psychiatrists,- Dr. Colin Ross

The psychiatric, religious death cult who brainwashes people into a false belief system of fictitious mental disorders/fictitious mental diseases and the prescribes neurtoxins/poisons in a layering system makes the Rev. Jim Jones and the Jonestown Massacres pail in comparison. Except this group used faked licensures, faked college degrees, faked gov. documents, faked college degrees, and faked science papers, poison laced pills, all cleverly disguised as medical and therapy in order to conduct immoral, insane, and illegal human science experiments in order to obtain grant funding expenditures. It's called chemical torture and running a psychiatric hoax/medical scam is grounds for being hauled to the Hague at the I. C. C. at the Hague in Geneva, Switzerland.



Inventing Disorders For Drug Profits- by CCHR.org