This is what socialized medicine looks like

originally posted by: JAGStorm

The head of the Veterans Health Administration announced a series of major changes at an assisted-living facility days after a dying Air Force veteran was twice found covered in ants in his bed.

If national healthcare is so wonderful why do people in the UK, the utopia of socialized medicine fly out of country for healthcare? Why?
We all know why, it sucks, people are waiting forever for care, people are not getting care.

You do know we can buy private health insurance and health care as well, don't you? We have a choice...and most people stick with the NHS. That includes former Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron and his late son, Ivan.

People do fly out of the country for some procedures - because it's usually cheaper abroad. Nothing more sophisticated than cost.

Maybe a little research and reflection before you type a phrase like "we all know", eh?

originally posted by: toolgal462
Thanks Jag.

I wonder why they love anecdotal stories when it comes to someone accusing a man of sexual assault 40 yrs ago, without a single person to back it up....

Yet in the case of socialized medicine, anecdotes are crap.

so annoying

Who says Americans don't do irony?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

a particularly dishonest " analysis " by your source

originally posted by: spacedoubt
Similar to private health insurance.
You put the money in a big pool. Other people use that money for health care .

The leftovers pay executive salaries, advertising (which they do a lot of!), and the salaries of of the non-execs.

Then there are the stock dividends for stockholders.
Seems to be very profitable.

Im not sure how much of a say you have in how other people use your contributions

Yep, I spend thousands a year on insurance but avoid going to the hospital because the deductibles are too expensive. That money I am paying out is paying for other peoples medical care.

But most poor people also do not go for the same reason, so where is all our money going?
Shareholders, exorbitant CEO pay, bribe money for politicians?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Do you have a choice not to pay the taxes for the healthcare?

What seems like a system with more choice?

One where you keep your money and chose how to use it to get care?


Or one where you are forced to pay for a service even if you don’t want it and won’t use it?

That seems perfectly reasonable. Allow people who want private insurance to opt out and get that portion of the taxes not deducted.

It could be an option


The problem is this doesn’t solve the problem with that status quo

One of the reasons health care is so expensive is that so many people use the service without paying

So if you can opt out and save your tax dollars, many will, and then still need medical service that humane hospitals will be forced to give, and it won’t be paid for, this driving everyone’s costs up again

I would be curious to see how much healthcare and insurance lobbyists spend on politicians in other countries. In the USA, they are the top spending lobbyists and they expect a return on their investment.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: JAGStorm

Everyone on this Planet should be Personally Responsible for their Own Health . If it Somehow Fails , the Charity of Others should Not be Made Mandatory IMO .

We should do that for everything then.
That would cut our military by 80% since every country would be resonsible for thier own health and welfare.

Saudi Arabia should be personally responsible in defending thier own interests as example lately.

Our taxes should also drop accordingly rather than get shuffled to other programs which means more money for my healthcare.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

And that's a weak response.

I agree government would suck at this, but it's what we have so let it destroy everyone's health care because I don't want to actively remove money from my own pocket for it ...

I disagree, we have a great health system. What makes you believe peoples health is being destroyed ?

See Obamacare

Obamacare was written by the insurance industry so it was doomed to fail.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

a particularly dishonest " analysis " by your source

Such a "high info post", not!

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

And that's a weak response.

I agree government would suck at this, but it's what we have so let it destroy everyone's health care because I don't want to actively remove money from my own pocket for it ...

I disagree, we have a great health system. What makes you believe peoples health is being destroyed ?

See Obamacare

We agree then, the healthcare system in the U.S is a disgrace, on top of that its horrendous that vets are treated as disposable heroes.

Yep
When it comes to wars, the costs are never discussed.
When it comes to the aftermath in caring for the disabled or mentally ill from the wars, all of a sudden money matters and we cannot afford it.

a reply to: JAGStorm

That Forbes article, if accurate, is pretty bleak.

Thanks for the info.

a reply to: doobydoll

Heres to hoping your daughter does well. As for the US, having turned 65, my primary insurance is Medicare and I cant even find a doctor to treat me so I am limited to the community clinic. We have pretty much just come to expect that death is a way of life in the US today. I have an Aunt-in-Law with stage 4 bone cancer they refuse to treat the pain for unless she consents to a bone biopsy. She spent an entire day on a gurney in a hall in agonizing pain at a hospital and finally at 7:00 pm, the prescribed 4 pain pills. The system is mostly broken.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Thanks for that insight. Politics certainly fixes so many problems today........and it makes the sign makers and the TV presenters in jobs.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: JAGStorm

That Forbes article, if accurate, is pretty bleak.

Thanks for the info.

fee.org...

The [British Medical Association] has warned that growing numbers of GPs and consultants are taking early retirement or cutting back on work to avoid hefty pensions taxes which make it uneconomic to continue practising. Retiring GPs often create a domino effect by leaving remaining colleagues with more work, who in turn become demoralised and quit.

fortune.com...

The U.K.’s government-run healthcare system, the National Health Service, turns 70 this month. There’s not much to celebrate. The NHS is collapsing. Patients routinely face treatment delays, overcrowded hospitals, and doctor shortages. Even its most ardent defenders admit that the NHS is in crisis.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: JAGStorm

That Forbes article, if accurate, is pretty bleak.

Thanks for the info.

fee.org...

The [British Medical Association] has warned that growing numbers of GPs and consultants are taking early retirement or cutting back on work to avoid hefty pensions taxes which make it uneconomic to continue practising. Retiring GPs often create a domino effect by leaving remaining colleagues with more work, who in turn become demoralised and quit.

fortune.com...

The U.K.’s government-run healthcare system, the National Health Service, turns 70 this month. There’s not much to celebrate. The NHS is collapsing. Patients routinely face treatment delays, overcrowded hospitals, and doctor shortages. Even its most ardent defenders admit that the NHS is in crisis.

Which is so different from the us system, and others. Right?

a reply to: JAGStorm

tory cuts for nine years in an attempt to force privatization through is the only thing hurting the NHS.
Surprising the ultra conservative forbes wouldn't lead with that, oh wait...

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: JAGStorm

That Forbes article, if accurate, is pretty bleak.

Thanks for the info.

fee.org...

The [British Medical Association] has warned that growing numbers of GPs and consultants are taking early retirement or cutting back on work to avoid hefty pensions taxes which make it uneconomic to continue practising. Retiring GPs often create a domino effect by leaving remaining colleagues with more work, who in turn become demoralised and quit.

fortune.com...

The U.K.’s government-run healthcare system, the National Health Service, turns 70 this month. There’s not much to celebrate. The NHS is collapsing. Patients routinely face treatment delays, overcrowded hospitals, and doctor shortages. Even its most ardent defenders admit that the NHS is in crisis.

the Dr. I had for years (before ACA DIDN'T allow me to keep my Dr.) told me back then that if Medicare for all was implemented he would retire from practice.

a reply to: toolgal462

That’s good for him. I work in a hospital, and plenty of my peers and doctors also think we need single payer as well. Some people get into medicine for what it can give them, some get into medicine for what they can give others. And, of course, some get in for both.

originally posted by: toolgal462

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: JAGStorm

That Forbes article, if accurate, is pretty bleak.

Thanks for the info.

fee.org...

The [British Medical Association] has warned that growing numbers of GPs and consultants are taking early retirement or cutting back on work to avoid hefty pensions taxes which make it uneconomic to continue practising. Retiring GPs often create a domino effect by leaving remaining colleagues with more work, who in turn become demoralised and quit.

fortune.com...

The U.K.’s government-run healthcare system, the National Health Service, turns 70 this month. There’s not much to celebrate. The NHS is collapsing. Patients routinely face treatment delays, overcrowded hospitals, and doctor shortages. Even its most ardent defenders admit that the NHS is in crisis.

the Dr. I had for years (before ACA DIDN'T allow me to keep my Dr.) told me back then that if Medicare for all was implemented he would retire from practice.

To add though. When asked “knowing what medicine is now, and what you do now, would you do it again?” 90% of doctors responded no. And I’ve personally found that’s the case too.

a reply to: pexx421

To add though. When asked “knowing what medicine is now, and what you do now, would you do it again?” 90% of doctors responded no. And I’ve personally found that’s the case too.

Why is that? My guess is that they feel they aren't really helping people anymore, or that is too much red tape. Another argument against socialized care, it will only add to that.