My reason to walk away

a reply to: projectvxn

Your posts are fine... it's the course of action directly after the rant that is put into question. Missing proposed actions are a flaw on all sides... directional awareness starts with the center of each of us.

Humans have both a left and right butt cheek... in most cases anyway.

I already made my suggestion. Include a proposed course of recourse for any and all ATS ranting... it's that simple. Middle ground debating can only occur when people stop placing directions to be the cause of personal concerns.

Yes... I will refuse to talk about step two or three when rants don't offer a proposed step one. If swaying debaters to one side or the other is the motive with these rants, then enjoy the tail chasing and pacifying that's seemingly craved for.

a reply to: projectvxn

I'm beginning to see myself more of a Constitutionalist myself.

It's purer that way.

I don't have the republican/democrat/left/right filters on what I think is fact based on the Constitution.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I consider myself an empiricist.

It makes it hard to make any friends at all.

a reply to: projectvxn

I think we can still be left-wing despite the authoritarians. If it’s anything the left needs, it’s principled left-wingers.

a reply to: TheSteppenwolf

There is no "evidence and informed decision" party.

I don't need one wing or the other. Just representation of reality as it is rather than as we wish it to be.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: TheSteppenwolf

There is no "evidence and informed decision" party.

I don't need one wing or the other. Just representation of reality as it is rather than as we wish it to be.

That'll get you burned at the stake.

a reply to: DBCowboy

In my case, it'll get me burned at the STEAK lol.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: TheSteppenwolf

There is no "evidence and informed decision" party.

I don't need one wing or the other. Just representation of reality as it is rather than as we wish it to be.

Well, the left and right aren’t parties. If we all step off that scale it breaks.

a reply to: projectvxn

Ah, politics, the greatest reality show ever created.


All lies. All of it.

I hear ya vxn...

My views havent really changed at all. I had my ideals, and I spent many years thinking and figuring out how to work towards them realistically and without forcing those who disagree to compromise deeply held positions.

I think its possible, but that certainly isnt where we are now. It seems to revolve around getting the "enemy" to change those deep convictions *specifically*.

There are quite interesting studies showing the median shifts of the left and the right over the years. There might have been warning signs, but its definitely a changing situation. Nobody expects the Inquisition!

I was never a democrat, but some of my ideals are definitely extreme. A relatively mild one is that I think we should bring back manufacturing, but completely decentralized. We can have manufacturing capabilities essentially in every home, and then have it centralized through a backbone of modern communication technology. Topics like this just aren't really on the table, as the focus has shifted to proselytizing and conversion rather than actual content. I have much more extreme views.. but for as much as Id love discussing and debating them, that doesn't seem to be the environment we are in.

But nowadays, the actual "thing," or idea, is rarely talked about beyond vague suggestions cemented in actual legislation. It has become significantly more important to convert beliefs rather than create and implement the things we might agree on. Naturally, this is a flawed approach.

I think what has happened is the revenue and attention generated from outrage is simply massive. It sounds simple, but we have entire systems designed to exploit this, from the media to social sites. You are likely to get substantially more "likes and shares" on something that illicits extreme reactions. And, the more this is done, the more people start to build a belief system founded on what is essentially an addiction. It is further compounded by the comprehensive belief system that can be cultivated through total immersion in MSM, entertainment, social media, etc. Its immersion into a system that exploits scale, and the vast disparity between online presence and actual presence outside of technology. Just gotta make sure to eliminate anything that might break that immersion.

I think its an incredibly nuanced and complex topic, but at its core, the more outraged, indignant, and morally superior one is.. the more "successful" they are online. And, with the difference between online/entertainment presence and "real life," a completely distinct and separate reality can be created.

originally posted by: ttobban
a reply to: projectvxn

Movement somewhere... anywhere.

If anything my action here is to beg the whiners to at least offer more to their rants than is offered typically.

Okay, we get it, people are butt hurt. So, now that we all know you're upset, what can we do about it?

People will have to take a step out of their comfy zones for ANY change at all to happen.

But till then, what is your plan? You're not just gonna sit there and wait, complaining no one else has a plan, are you?

??

a reply to: ttobban
Are you not good at reading comprehension?? He literally stated in his title the action he took, he walked away from the political party, and disassociated himself from their insanity, this reducing their power by 1, times the millions of others who took the same action, myself included. I jumped ship During Obama though 2 years after I tirelessly helped his campaign, handling the phone banks, and going door to door in # neighborhoods to get people registered to vote.

I don't know if I can do enough to make amends for that crime though.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: projectvxn

I'm beginning to see myself more of a Constitutionalist myself.

It's purer that way.

I don't have the republican/democrat/left/right filters on what I think is fact based on the Constitution.

Ummm...I've called myself a constitutional Libertarian for years...whatever the hell that is...

Perhaps a blend of the two...with no formal recognition or reconciliation of diametricism...




At least I sleep comfortable...and maintain a positive outlook...

I'm reminded of the old adage...whichever you feed the most...





YouSir

originally posted by: ttobban
a reply to: projectvxn

Your posts are fine... it's the course of action directly after the rant that is put into question. Missing proposed actions are a flaw on all sides... directional awareness starts with the center of each of us.

Humans have both a left and right butt cheek... in most cases anyway.

I already made my suggestion. Include a proposed course of recourse for any and all ATS ranting... it's that simple. Middle ground debating can only occur when people stop placing directions to be the cause of personal concerns.

Yes... I will refuse to talk about step two or three when rants don't offer a proposed step one. If swaying debaters to one side or the other is the motive with these rants, then enjoy the tail chasing and pacifying that's seemingly craved for.

Very thoughtful post, as yours always seem to be.

The concept of: 'if you're gonna complain, then you should also include a possible solution', is something we teach our children, and try to replicate in the workplace.

But somehow feel that the 'Rant' section here, should work a little differently.
The OP posts a rant, to get something off-of their chest, then the ensuing comments is the place for in-depth discussion of the underlying problem, as well as possible solutions.

Of course: it doesn't always work that way.
If the problem is someone whom is fed-up, or angry: then the solution will hopefully see them looking in a new direction.

a reply to: projectvxn



I was like you, I used to be pretty left leaning because I cared about workers rights and the environment and I didn't want corporations running the government. But the left now doesn't seem to care much about anything beyond keeping the borders open, trans rights and vilifying Caucasian people. And they have pretty much embraced the corporatism of big tech and the media. I think we grow up when we realize they are just a bunch of power hungry criminals using hot button issues to goad the working class into votes to hang onto power. But if they really cared about the working class, do you think they would be trying to flood the country with cheap labor? Would they be so pro globalization? I had to laugh, the other night I watched the series about Chernobyl that is running on cable, and I couldn't believe how similar the behavior was of the Soviets to the current left, in covering up the truth and repressing dissent. Todays American left has gone full Stalin, I have a feeling if their power increased we would see people who disagree with them start to go missing quite frequently.

Double post, apologies.

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: projectvxn

I used to have no beef whatsoever with the left. Until I started seeing that as a large majority they have wanted for a long time to force their views on others not allowing others to have their own opinion. What's worse I started seeing how many of their same policies were/are the same policies that authoritarian left-wing dictatorships have forced, and are forcing to this day on the populace. When I saw many policies that the left were trying to implement in the U.S., and which exist in dictatorships like Cuba, where I was born and saw first hand the authoritarianism of the left, that was the final nail in the coffin.

projectvxn:

...what alternative was there for a free-thinking, rational human being?

There is no 'alternative', the fight throughout one's life is to remain what you claim yourself to be...a free-thinking, rational human being.

The fact is, you're getting older, and as you get older, your mindset undergoes a radical value change. The idealism of your youth reshapes itself, because and due to, you being a free-thinking rational human being. You don't have to wear any kind of uniform to show you belong to something, you don't have to hold the same ideology in some vain hope that it lasts in perpetuity, because in the last rational analysis...we all know nothing lasts, not even the minds that know this truth.

Only narcissists want to have a place in history, me...I just want to be able to look back and be able to say to myself that (in spite of all my failings) I was able to achieve some small accomplishments that were bigger than what my birth chanced me to do, and that I neither hurt nor robbed anyone in the process. As we all are, I was born an innocent, and I would like to die having been a decent human being to others. That will be my greatest accomplishment!

Same.

However, I think it is pertinent that you stay and fight for what you know is right and hold the people within your group accountable. I seriously think that is the major problem with politics these days is not enough people hold their own kind accountable. It is all about controlling the opposition and that equates to zero-sum warfare and accomplishes nothing but stoking the fire of the extremist movements on both ends.

Please stay on the left and combat the collectivist group-think. We need people like you.