Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

Wrong thread.
😐

originally posted by: coursecatalog
a reply to: mirageman

Yes, the Daily Star is a rag. But surely they didn't pull that Blue Book completely out of thin air, no?

Although I agree that the alien references did not come from Elizondo.

The Washington Post mentioned a 490 page report back in 2017. Maybe that is what the Daily Star is referring to.

The program operated jointly out of the Pentagon and, at least for a time, an underground complex in Las Vegas managed by Bigelow Aerospace, a defense contractor that builds modules for space stations. It generated at least one report, a 490-page volume that describes alleged UFO sightings in the United States and numerous foreign countries over multiple decades.

Anyone know if The Kivster has stewed in bitterness at losing his see.eye.aye op to TTSA long enough?
Or has he dropped his lawsuit?

a reply to: Guest101

A report that may have included erroneous info stating that photographs had been taken during the 1952 Washington DC flyover - especially if it was the document that Zondo relied upon for his embarrassing gaffe during his Italian presentation.

It may have also been responsible for the cock-up that paired Jim Penniston with John Burroughs for the third night of the Rendlesham case.

TTSA's general rough-and-ready UFO knowledge seems to have been gained from something akin to a Primary School Bumper Book Of UFOs - only less reliable and accurate.

That rag makes not an iota of an attempt at accuracy. It’s loaded with one distortion after another. Must be the UK’s version of the National Enquirer.

As for this Blue Book, that’s an incredible story; where the hell did they get that from? I wouldn’t bet on its existence.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
a reply to: Guest101


TTSA's general rough-and-ready UFO knowledge seems to have been gained from something akin to a Primary School Bumper Book Of UFOs - only less reliable and accurate.

They are a mish-mosh of deliberate evil misdirection and slapstick stupidity.
I can't work out if their strings are being pulled by Vigo the Carpathian or Cheech and Chong.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Further to this CB's point.

They started back in SERPO the "it's "For entertainment Purposes only"

Kit Green 2006 email

> >>Finally...I can't IMAGINE what you are worried about: it's > >>E-N-T-E-R-T-A-I-N-M-E-N-T RIGHT? Hey, read the HEADLINES of your
> >>own > > >>tabloid news letter on SERPO...you are clear! No one will blame you
> >>for a thing! You have ALWAYS treated this as I have come to believe
> >>it > > >>SHOULD be...you are RIGHT and I was WRONG WRONG WRONG. This has > >>
ALWAYS > > >>been about entertainment and viral marketing, and putting memes and > >>engrams "out" there to proliferate FOR FUN! I SEE IT NOW!

So getting back to some of the earlier speculations on the first thread we have to really think TTSA is a CIA meme psyop.

When TDL first came around with his goofy, grinning and gee Willie willikers lets go on an alien/ufo hunt to those serious-minded government people, in con-man parlance…they saw him coming.

He was passed around to the IC crew to see who wanted to exploit him and he was chosen to be a mouthpiece of probably a new meme transformation…an upgrade of a sort from the aliens are creepy dungeon dwellers to let's build our own spaceships and the aliens are a threat.

That does a lot for the Military Intelligence Industrial Complex: one, they can advance the existing preoccupation with military technology by adding a UFO threat meme, and two, they can add to the ongoing disinformation operation regarding ufology by going off into all kinds of alien meme agendas from the IDH to the ETH and unto the sort of agnostic, crypto scientific ufo hunting Zondo and his IC buddies are peddling. In the context of ufology it all means confusion, distraction, and meaningless, directionless debates ad infinitum over details of facts which serve to blur any objective knowledge.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Engrams.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

What surprises me is that they use so little cases from the past in trying to convince the US population that UFO’s exist and are a threat.

I haven’t seen Unidentified, but apart from Rendlesham and the Italian case, did they use anything else?
It’s almost as if they do not want cases like Mantell, Valentich, Iran, the Minuteman shut-down, and various abduction cases to be remembered – perfect cases to frame the UFO phenomenon as a threat.

So maybe the agenda behind it all is not so much disclosure, but ‘forgetting the past’. It paints a picture of a Government that knows even less about UFO’s than someone who got a UFO book as a birthday present. And via TTSA, the US population will ‘re-discover’ the existence of UFO’s via some rogue heros without ever questioning what their Government really knew and withheld in the past 70 years.

After all, with the ever increasing quality of our low-cost camera’s it’s only a matter of time before a solid case surfaces and will raise a lot of questions (provided that UFO’s really exist). Maybe they are simply preparing for such a scenario: TTSA can say ‘I told you so’ and the Government can act surprised.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Does anything think the Office of Naval Research doesn't have the ability to figure out the tic-tac technology. Here is a short list of the ONR Corporate Programs, Research and Education.

Naval Research Enterprise Intern Program (NREIP)
Multidisciplinary Research Program of the URI (MURI)
Defense University Research Instrumentation Program (DURIP) of the URI
DoD Experimental Program to Stimulate Competitive Research (DEPSCOR)
Young Investigator Program
DoD National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship Program of the URI
Summer Faculty Research Program
Faculty Sabbatical Leave Program
Naval High School Science Awards Program
HBCU (Historically Black Colleges/Universities)Future Engineering Faculty Fellowship Program
Science and Engineering Apprentice Program (SEAP) (Run by ONR, funded by the American Society for Engineering Education

As Hal Putoff and buddy Eric fumble along to try and understand the technology, the ONR employees more than 2,300 scientists. TTSA is low bar and a low reward proposition.

originally posted by: mirageman
..... The evidence was kept in a 600-page “blue book” named after Project Blue Book, the US government UFO study that ran from 1947 to 1969.

Elizondo has one copy, which he keeps at an ­undisclosed location.

Is it the only copy?

(Note: I had to remove the external source markers from the above, as otherwise the text wasn't visible.)

If that's true and Elizondo still has that "blue book" (which likely is that same 490 page book mentioned before, Elizondo isn't too good with details and numbers), does that indicate either that:

1) He took with him (official) documents he shouldn't have.
2) Those are just about as "official" as the picture you created indicates. So something like a product of their little Pentagon UFO hobby club (aka AATIP), not stored in any official system, hence also not reachable by FOIA.

I have noticed a marked shift in strategy among the more virulent TTSA supporters on social media. Now any criticism of Elizondo or the Tic Tac witnesses leads to accusations of being anti-military. People are bizarrely badgering Black Vault's John Greenewald about whether he donates money to veteran causes. Many of these people are brand new social media accounts with gun, survival/prepper and military profiles.

This seems to be a new campaign unrelated to the original batch of TTSA fans that popped up after the announcement in 2017. That seemed slightly more organic to me.

I don't know if the Black Vault has that great a reach beyond hardcore UFO and government transparency buffs so this kind of character assassination seems like overkill to me and too tightly coordinated to be random.

Of course all of this could have been avoided if TTSA came out of the gate with accurate information. Would it have mattered to people that Elizondo was an intelligence agent with an interest in UFOs and not necessarily the top UFO guy within the Pentagon? Are his credentials that important to this narrative?

Ugh wrong thread, sorry folks.

a reply to: coursecatalog

What we have to understand is that they want this group to be raggedy. This is a controlled operation and they knew people would expose these details. It’s all adds up IMO to an attempt to cast aspersions on ufology not really contribute to it in a positive way.

In an odd sense, we are doing just what they want to be done.

They have more respect for us exposing them than the sycophants following them to oblivious ignorance.

originally posted by: Guest101
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

So maybe the agenda behind it all is not so much disclosure, but ‘forgetting the past’. It paints a picture of a Government that knows even less about UFO’s than someone who got a UFO book as a birthday present. And via TTSA, the US population will ‘re-discover’ the existence of UFO’s via some rogue heros without ever questioning what their Government really knew and withheld in the past 70 years.

Just watched a few episodes of Unidentified and my theory doesn’t fly: Lots of references to the UFO past and to Government cover-ups.

Actually, the series is not bad. Unfortunately they do not discuss the more mundane explanations for Gimbal and GoFast.
Even Steve Justice has acknowledged the possibility that the Gimbal recording was actually a distant conventional aircraft:

“Maybe it could have been some set of physical and optical aberrations,” Justice says. “But when I put it in context of all the information in the video, that’s less likely to me.”

He is referring to the audio here, with its urgency in the voices of the pilots as they speak of associated radar tracking that is not in the video.

Source

originally posted by: Guest101

Just watched a few episodes of Unidentified and my theory doesn’t fly: Lots of references to the UFO past and to Government cover-ups.

Actually, the series is not bad. Unfortunately they do not discuss the more mundane explanations for Gimbal and GoFast.

Oh, well, it was a fascinating theory all the same.

'Unidentified' is arguably the slickest UFOtainment series thus far, the 'on the road' aspect recalling many similar shows of the past, and it was to be expected that editorial honing would ensure some of TTSA's more embarrassing past blunders didn't surface again.

The three released/published (however Zondo wants to label it) videos of UAV threats (as opposed to UFOs/UAPs) form the series' backbone despite the infighting among Nimitz witnesses after 15 years. Dave "Sex" Fravor (who acts as the main spokesperson for the 2004 incident) basically threw Episode Two into the UFO dustbin as a pack of lies, but TTSA still went ahead with radar man Kevin Day's disputed tale without blinking. But their treatment of Rendlesham (arguably the Number One case on the books) was truly inept (mixing up important witnesses and nights), and the less said about the Italy jaunt the better.

The casual viewer with no knowledge of ufology's finer points and controversies will have been hooked by this series. And perhaps that's all that matters to Zondo & Co. As well as to the History Channel.

I'm 10 mins in listening to Sean Cahill on AccessNW radio with Sash.
If anyone's interested.

Sean Cahill who was in the U.S Navy for 20 years and was Top Security Officer on the USS Princeton, a Missile Cruiser in the U.S Nimitz Carrier Strike Group during the UFO encounter in November 2004.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Thankyou. My impression Cahill was cautious in how he put things across. There were several sections were he seemed to have difficulty or paused for thought.

An unedited (and far less viewed) version of Fravor at the McMenamin festival - as opposed to Corbell's other 'cleaned-up' version - allows us to hear Fravor's own words about other witnesses' stories, rather than just articles about what was said. Some highlights...

There are four of us - FOUR - that physically saw this thing - FOUR. Two of us have talked in the New York Times article; one of 'em is gonna be in a show that comes out on 31st called 'Unidentified' - that person remains on active duty... two are on active duty and don't wanna come forward... [The radar operators] tracked up to ten - and I want to caveat this - TEN, not a hundred - TEN is the max they told us they saw. Now, if it was different from that, I was never told. The other rumours were:

You guys signed non-disclosures - never happened.
It was classified - never happened.
Men in suits showed up - we're gonna get that one later [giggles].

... It p*sses me off when people start making stuff up...

GEORGE KNAPP: I guess you're being diplomatic, but some of the stories and claims that have been made by people who may have been on those ships, are just bullsh*t.

FRAVOR: Okay, so we'll hit it... Who has seen 'Nimitz Encounters'? Stick your hands up. It's like a cartoon depiction, shows the airplanes flying around. It should not be on the internet anymore because I had them take it down... They have PTSD from this. I didn't have PTSD and I SAW it.

...The radar tapes from the USS Princeton, those were supposed to be pulled and archived. There are rumours that, oh, they pulled into port and some guys in suits came and took it off... [big breath]... I am doubtful, I'm sceptical. I could probably track down the CO, who I know, and ask him because if anyone's gonna come on board the boat and take something off that ship, Captain has to approve it. Okay... so watch what you read on the internet... There are some people that say they are witnesses that I will not be associated with. I'll just say that.