Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

I know it's usually #Throwbackthursday but I couldn't wait two days :p



A YT channel by Joe Firmage allegedly, started in 2011 and still uploads or should I say, reuploads old videos very frequently.

We've been over this before but for those new to this thread I thought worth sticking out there.

Academy of Arts and science... Anti gravity, propulsion... Now where have we heard that BS before 😁

Just wanted to point out that, as fashion goes out and back in, so it appears does BS.

a reply to: pigsy2400


Your right Pigs, TTSA is another version of past groups and at least they had money behind them and some real legit scientists. Bigelow’s group, NIDS for instance, had legitimate ufologists and scientists. And they actually did projects. TTSA is a bad rendition of past failed endeavors. And I’m still trying to figure out, other than that History channel “documentary” series, what actually have they done in two years?

Oh, excuse me, Zondo took a field trip with some space rocks in his trunk.

a reply to: Willtell

My problem with NIDS is that Bigelow was very reluctant to share most of the information compiled for him. Of course he's entitled to do so when he puts that money up himself. But as we know he's prone to spending taxpayers money on acquiring things like MUFON's database and abduction research records too.

Is there a deeper, darker link between Bigelow and the intelligence community? I think it's a valid question to ask. But that can wait for another time.

Here's what Monsieur Vallee has to say about Mr. B in his latest book FS4.

Las Vegas. Saturday 9th January 1999.

Bob Bigelow is still fascinated with “Day After” scenarios. Standing before the full Board (Kit [Green] the only missing member) he went over the history of our efforts, from the initial intent to appeal to the military to the more recent idea of having our own contingency plan if it turned out, as he put it, that 'we were cohabiting on the Earth with non-human entities that controlled our destiny.'

With that introduction he gave the floor to Michael Lindemann, our guest as an evening lecturer. Michael ... is convinced that the Star Wars arsenal was not developed against Russia but against an extraterrestrial enemy. Hal (Hutpoff] put him contact with Petersen, which led them to the idea of running “First Contact” scenarios under the sponsorship of Firmage. For silly reasons we’re not supposed to know that Joe is involved.

We ended up discussing Kairos. Al Harrison pointed out that “After spending $2 million [Joe] Firmage has failed to have any impact. The idea of going to the public is fundamentally flawed.”

This took some wind out of Bob Bigelow’s sails. Yet he remains convinced we are confronted with a “scenario-selecting agent,” which implies that “our state of acceptance will determine when and how confirmation occurs.”

John Alexander, who knows the world disagrees: he aptly observes that all our scenario discussions start from a First World context, yet “there are some cultures that accept contact already, as something that has happened.”

Edgar Mitchell pitched in: “At the time when we went to the Moon, the consensus was that we were alone in the universe. Look how much things have changed!”

(P439)

My immediate thought reading that was that these people are a deluded bunch of New Age Eschatologists (with what appear to be personal beliefs approaching a form of insanity) from what is said there. But maybe they don't really believe that at all. They just want to test how they can make other people believe in that crap?

Perhaps Bigelow was the experiment that succeeded where Bennewitz and Firmage failed?

DeLonge seems to have embraced those bizarre views as well. Let's see where he ends up.

a reply to: mirageman

Is there a deeper, darker link between Bigelow and the intelligence community? I think it's a valid question to ask. But that can wait for another time.

No doubt somebody with ‘Bigelow’s influence, money, and interest is connected to the IC.
He may have legitimate interests in the paranormal phenomenon but believes like many ufologists that there no harm in aligning with the government.

Maybe there isn’t any harm in the greater scheme of things.

At least he spends his own money for better or worst

As regards these people’s beliefs, in the final analysis, it matters little what a person believes in comparison to reality and what one experiences that make them KNOW the truth.

We all probably should inwardly examine why we have interest in ufology.

The fact is it has levels of what it is all about.

The first is the fact that there is an unknown phenomenon outside of our dimensional reality.

But even when we know that, which most people do once their convinced UFOs are real to some degree, that doesn’t tell us what the phenomenon wants, where it's from, or even if it’s a good or wise thing to even know this information. Or even if its attainable to know.

We’ve been raised in this western civilization to believe everything we want to know is justified because we have a desire to know it.

We all assume it is worth knowing...

What always interested me about TTSA, among other things, is that they aren’t coming from a basic philosophical interest but a threat paradigm. Maybe that’s just Zondos problem.

a reply to: pigsy2400

Isn't that a one heck of a rubbish video? I watched it Pigs. 😁

I wish a space ship would take some of these dudes away. Far away!!

a reply to: mirageman

My immediate thought reading that was that these people are a deluded bunch of New Age Eschatologists (with what appear to be personal beliefs approaching a form of insanity) from what is said there.

Vol 4 is really worth a read in that respect. Hoo boy.

Ofc bob has connections,in some thread i posted how he was connected to all this but cant find it now :/


found this though

Since Bigelow Aerospace and Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) was mentioned as being a part of the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program (AATIP)program, I had recalled that many FAA manuals had BAASS listed as a place of contact for commercial pilot UFO reports. The dates that Bigelow Aerospace/BAASS entered into the manuals very much coincide with the start of the AATIP program. Prior, the manuals reference Bigelow Aerospace’s previous project called NIDS starting in 2002. However, all references to Bigelow Aerospace/BAASS have been removed, which coincides with the actual cancellation of the AATIP program (although this ‘cancellation’ date that is controversial, since Mr. Elizondo has gone on the record saying the program continued). It appears, however, that the removal of Bigelow Aerospace/BAASS from the FAA manuals coincides completely with this cancellation date. The FAA now recommends contacting private organizations like the National UFO Reporting center to report their sightings.

I also asked the question if its not improbable that aatip was using bigelows ufo databases.Also as MM posted above

Bob Bigelow is still fascinated with “Day After” scenarios. Standing before the full Board (Kit [Green] the only missing member) he went over the history of our efforts, from the initial intent to appeal to the military to the more recent idea of having our own contingency plan if it turned out, as he put it, that 'we were cohabiting on the Earth with non-human entities that controlled our destiny.'

Now where have we heard the bold above before?I find it curious that all the talk is how the metamaterials were acquired and what can we do with them,how to weaponize them etc,instead of how we found them,where we found them,and most importantly what reasons do we have to think that some alien force is puppeteering us ,as bob and tom say


Found the damn link

Robert Bigelow has been compiling data for decades with NIDS and then BAASS and is rumored to have one of the biggest and most comprehensive databases in the world. Since BAASS was the AAWSAP contractor does the Bigelow database overlap with the AAWSAP database? One of the most interesting publicly known cases in the database that we often talk about is the Colares Island Event data, videos and evidence. This is sometimes referred to as Operation Plate or Operation Saucer. Who has access to the Colares Island UFO Events information? I’ve said this before, but releasing it to the public could end up being a smoking gun.

john alexander said a global database was impossible.Because of cost and maintenance.EIther he didnt know or he told me tales

More of the alien autopsy stuff:

Philip Mantle discovered a note verifying that Colm Kelleher and Eric Davis received the Alien Autopsy film from him (Philip) on August 25, 2000. This is a small piece of evidence confirming the timeline of events for Kit Green viewing the film in January 2001 as indicated in the documents Richard Dolan describes as the "leak of the century."

Philip Mantle
19 hrs
ALIEN AUTOPSY FILM UPDATE 2. PLEASE SHARE.

Just a few words to say I found a little nugget today that might be of interest. I have been filming my part in a UFO documentary series over these last two days. I still have one more day of filming to be done shortly in London. During today’s interview I was asked about my involvement in the infamous alien autopsy film hoax. As we discussed this I told the producer that I actually had one of the film canisters which was sent to me years ago by Ray Santilli. This film can had been left in my filing cabinet for years. Well, I took it out and hey presto what do I find in it, a hand signed note from Colm Kelleher and Eric Davis, two of the men mentioned in the recently ‘leaked’ alien autopsy memo. Not only that, there were still a few frames of 16 mm film that Ray Santilli claims are from the alien autopsy film. Here are some photos I have taken today so you can see what I’m talking about. I had of course helped them try and get some film for analysis and to get a betacam copy of the alien autopsy film. I do get a brief mention in the now famous memo. It still makes me smile when I look back at what some people have recently written about the alien autopsy film hoax. I had forgotten that I had these little nuggets in my filing cabinet. I wonder what ‘analysis’ Kelleher and Davis conducted on these bits of rubbish film ? In the meantime, I am looking forward to reading Richard Dolan’s article on his interview with Dr. Kit Green. For Richard’s sake I do hope that he’s still not going down the CIA route with regards to the alien autopsy film being a ‘disinformation’ film made by them. We shall see.

The whole post with pics

a reply to: Cornissa

Regarding Richard Dolan's interview with Kit Green...

One thing that I think is very important, and I don’t think Dr. Green would object to me saying at this time is that he “absolutely” confirms the authenticity of the eleven-page “alien autopsy” email thread that was leaked in June. Much of our conversation centered over the information contained within that email. The other fact of note at the present time is that he emphatically does not believe the being in the Santilli film is an alien. He was quite definite on this.

richarddolanmembers.com...

Then, of course, it ends like this...

There is a great deal more that has to be said on these and related matters, and I am confident it will come out, but I am going to do this in a manner that Dr. Green is comfortable with. Give it a little time. He and I will be getting together for another interview and I believe the result will be worth the wait.

There's some spill over to what is being discussed here of course as various individuals involved in the Alien Autopsy Memo were also working with Bigelow in that time period.

However I think the above two comments would be better served by posting them in the below thread.

Kit Green, the Alien Autopsy and the Men Who Stared at Notes

Very interesting presentation that will annoy some people.....

Too late here in Ireland Blighty to give a synopsis other than it raises real questions about Zondo and AATIP and the bunch of Young Guns being given ammunition....

a reply to: mirageman

The video makes a good point that Zondo's drive was excellent - to ensure that UAVs (balloons, drones etc) that posed a threat to DoD equities were subject to an information database. Why the DoD hadn't woken up and approached the UAV problem around military bases in this fashion much earlier, is surprising in itself. Such a potential issue occurred to me many years ago.

The question remains, though: What the hell does any of this have to do with UFOs (or UAPs)? Nothing, it seems. The audio commentary on the 'GoFast' video indicating it was a "drone" makes more sense than ever. But how will Fravor and Co respond to these new revelations that suggest the Tic-Tac was a UAV after all? Or will they keep quiet?

Have anyone checked out a rival to TTSAs documentary series "Unidentified” called "Contact" a Discovery channel production.
Its seems to be a very good doc with legitimate technology and researchers going around the earth, South America for instance, and doing what looks like real research.

www.hollywoodreporter.com...

They talk to real generals, experiencers, researchers and do real fieldwork.

What I’ve seen so far is pretty good.

Discovery says this is the "first ever global investigation to determine whether or not aliens have made contact here on Earth."

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

The video makes a good point that Zondo's drive was excellent - to ensure that UAVs (balloons, drones etc) that posed a threat to DoD equities were subject to an information database. Why the DoD hadn't woken up and approached the UAV problem around military bases in this fashion much earlier, is surprising in itself. Such a potential issue occurred to me many years ago.

Why it didn't occur to the man who [supposedly] headed up a program specifically dedicated to such studies until the final weeks before he quit his job is even more surprising to me. Unless he needed those videos publicly released for some other reason before he left?

The video is long and rather dry in places because John went back to the day TTSA was launched publicly. Here's a couple of the more salient points that were made.

Everyone grab some coffee and a donut first......


55 mins in - JG points out the DD1910 form had been cleared for release in line with directive in section 3 (vidoes could be used internally with contractors and other gov. organisations).

However Zondo was edging for them to be made "unclassified" in those email exchanges. The last email in the FOI chain from Mike Russo clearly states

If the Service Level OCA (Original Classifying Authority) verifies that removing the metadata makes them unclassified "please feel free to move forward with the release".

In other words the redacted name [b(6) @navy.mil ]CC'd in, needed to reply to Russo and confirm Zondo's request to make them "unclassified". There is no response authorising this and included in the FOI release. So we do not know if they were ever "unclassified" by the Navy (OCA). The FOI letter does confirm nothing was withheld. So two years later what happened to make Zondo believe they were released publicly.


1h 2min - - Shows the DD1910 is the only official document that places Zondo as Director of National Programs Special Management Staff (NSPSMS). The Harry Reid letter lists him as Special Agent years earlier at OUSD. The crux here is that NPSMS are confirmed are the people who deal with requests for SAP access.

The detail was found in transcripts of the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed case (alleged mastermind of of the 9/11 terrorist attacks).



What this means is that Zondo was listed on the Harry Reid letter, not because he was part of AATIP, but because his department would be the ones dealing with the request to move AATIP to a SAP.



Although that then presents questions why he didn't move it to a SAP?

More later...That will do for now.

My immediate thought reading that was that these people are a deluded bunch of New Age Eschatologists (with what appear to be personal beliefs approaching a form of insanity) from what is said there. But maybe they don't really believe that at all. They just want to test how they can make other people believe in that crap?

Why is it crap and what exactly makes it insane?

By the way, have you read what is the premise of this forum?

a reply to: Sublant

There is no evidence to prove we are "cohabiting on the Earth with non-human entities that control our destiny".
These views can become dangerous. Look at what happened to the Heaven's Gate Cult.

Back to the Black Vault video...



JG also dissected Elizondo's statment to his favourite journalist

Starting at 1hr 16min

We’ll take it piece by piece.

Once again, this is yet another attempt by a few antagonists to bend facts around their false narrative. What the emails actually prove is as follows:

1) I did indeed work in AATIP

JG asserts that there is absolutely no reference to AATIPm UFOs or UAPs at all in these email exchanges, . Not even alluded to.

2) I was in a Senior position

The document says he was Director of National Programs Special Management Staff. So yes he’s correct there.

3) The videos were coordinated for release the proper way and the decision was a group decision

Agreed

4) The Pentagon and not Luis Elizondo approved release

Half right but any public release was not approved in the email chain provided.

As for the notion by the conspiracy theorist that some how I released the videos under false pretenses is further negated by the following:
A) At the time of the request, AATIP was still a small and sensitive program that I was not at liberty to discuss among a broader audience. As such, I used the term UAS as a general phrase that people could understand without specifically highlighting UAPs.

The people at DOPSR are cleared to the highest possible levels of classification. This makes no sense. Why would DOPSR feel Elizondo would need to keep information from them regard an unclassified video?

B) That individuals who were also part of the AATIP and UAP effort and who ultimately authorized the release were CCd on all the emails so those who needed to know, absolutely knew. This is the "OCA" or better known as the Original Classification Authority. This is evident by the fact that the Pentagon chose to redact their names, namely because they are still part of the effort and work at the Pentagon.

If Elizondo was Director of AATIP (and therefore in charge of these people) then why would they be questioning his authority over classification?

C) It was the Pentagon and not me who believed releasing the videos to a broader audience would be easier. One can read my emails to see I wanted to keep the videos protected but they felt releasing them at the unrestricted level would be easier and more efficient.

No - Elizondo wrote that in his email to Mike Russo. Not the Pentagon.

D) The reason why it reads "Not Applicable" under the section "PUBLICATION" is because last I checked you can't "publish a video" you "release a video". As such, I did not want to confuse DOPSR by indicating I wanted to publish the videos...we wanted to release them instead. Proper English grammar.

The section is called “PRESENTATION/PUBLICATION DATA (Date, Place, Event) not just publication. However if you search Google you will find literally thousands of sites including government ones that describe “publishing a video”.
Proper English Grammar.

a reply to: mirageman

sohp.us...

You can't disprove there is no genie in a bottle float in orbit around the Earth, either. Calling it crap is a subjective statement. There is no normative viability, and if this is the case, you certainly will never get any kind of official acknowledgement. The exception was on the Jimmy Kimmel interview with Obama when he states that "our alien overlords strictly forbid it (disclosure)." He was just kidding, right? Or...

a reply to: play4keeps

I can't recall MirageMan's post claiming there was or wasn't a genie in orbit??

It was regarding the email exchange that has been supplied in relation to the FOIA request for the approval of 3 videos that TTSA has marketed. I don't know why I am telling you this as you know...but you do seem to struggle with grasping the concept of what the previous post was about and instead just go for random statement instead of discussing the actual contents of the post and what those conclusions mean or putting together a counter argument / point of discussion.

Even Vince Russo didn't swerve like that!