Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: mirageman

If the Nimitz footage was out on ATS internets since 07, why bother getting auth and signatories for something that's already been out and downloadable for a decade.
The form is prolly just a prop., hence no sig.

originally posted by: mirageman
But it all appears that this was about threats from things like drones, UAVs and balloons.

Ironically, none of those videos likely show any of those either (one probable bird and two probable fighter jets).

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: mirageman

If the Nimitz footage was out on ATS internets since 07, why bother getting auth and signatories for something that's already been out and downloadable for a decade.
The form is prolly just a prop., hence no sig.

It seems the video had been lounging around on YT for years before finally being removed in early 2015 (maybe sooner, hard to tell), perhaps after a piercing stare from the Zondo gang. Paco Chierici, a good buddy of Dave "Sex" Fravor, recalled in March 2015:

Somehow the tape made its way to YouTube. A few years after the incident, when first telling me the story, Dave pointed me to the link. It was unremarkable without the background information. But folded into context it was amazing, especially the slow-mo of the dot accelerating out of screen. For years I told the story to friends and showed them the video as punctuation.

However last month when I called Dave to refresh my memory before sitting down to write this bizarre encounter, he informed me that the video had been removed from YouTube. He told me that a government agency with a three letter identifier had recently conducted an investigation into the AAVs and had exhaustively interviewed all parties involved.

I guess Zondo and Co were desperate to emblazon the aged video with their sexy TTSA logo.

a reply to: Nickless

...and yet they seem to have created a small "cult" that hang on thier every word, that's the most worrisome aspect. People are so desperate to be believe...fighter jets and birds will do the trick?

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: Nickless

...and yet they seem to have created a small "cult" that hang on their every word, that's the most worrisome aspect.

In TTSA's eyes, that may be tantamount to Mission Accomplished. And if that small cult is also willing to invest cash, all the better. The rest of us can simply move on and focus elsewhere, even though the TTSA-Cult equation and interaction is still an interesting social quirk to observe during moments of boredom.

People are so desperate to be believe...fighter jets and birds will do the trick?

Desperation to believe (for whatever odd reason) may eventually become a quieter desire to believe... and eventually a more diplomatic stance of "It would be nice if it were true, but I dunno".

Perhaps we're all on different steps of that ladder, depending where and when we joined the whole UFO circus?

PS: As for experiencers, I'm sure many are just as frustrated by TTSA's antics whilst searching for answers to their own incidents.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: Nickless

...and yet they seem to have created a small "cult" that hang on thier every word, that's the most worrisome aspect. People are so desperate to be believe...fighter jets and birds will do the trick?

Exactly. TTSA could actually provide quite valuable example of how cults form for social scientists. So far it seems to be relatively harmless, but I guess there's still time for them and their faithful to move to some jungle, while their house of cards is falling.

a reply to: Nickless

Indeed, however I have a feeling that the faithful would continue to fly the flag even if the King's dessert their castle.

As for cults, particularly ufo cults, they can be dangerous


The rabid desire seems to override the senses, confirmation bias kicks in and what they already believe, they think is validated.

This latest email FOIA is just an example of bias in action, for both sides of the coin.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: Nickless
As for cults, particularly ufo cults, they can be dangerous

But at least they are not waiting for some spacecraft to arrive behind a comet... since they are planning to build one by themselves! Or have they already abandoned that project?

Interestingly:

Coast to Coast AM host Art Bell featured the theory of the "companion object" in the shadow of Hale-Bopp on several programs, as early as November 1996; speculation has been raised as to whether his programs on the subject may have contributed to Heaven's Gate's group suicide months later.

That happens to be the same year when some hoaxer sent those TTSA "metamaterials" to Art Bell.

Coincidentally, I also just read this tweet by Jason Colavito today, where he comments: "So that's TTSA's disclosure? Theosophy?" Which also happens to be one element Heaven's Gate was employing.

a reply to: Nickless

Was Bigelow still funding Art Bell at the time?

a reply to: Nickless


Mr. Calavito is way out of line here.

Theosophy is a more complex doctrine than merely the Ascended Masters idea. Who don’t claim to be gods. Just goes to show us people shouldn’t go into fields they are ignorant about…Theosophy and metaphysics in this case.

He lumps different ideologies together just because they may have, superficially, similar ideas.

TDL’s Greek Gods are more akin to the Ancient Alien theories which have little to do with Theosophy.

a reply to: Willtell

Sounded straight up John Keel to me.

a reply to: Nickless

I read the tweet. It is interesting to me in relation to the Rendlesham case and some bits of info here and there which are strikingly similar. Hmmmm.

George knapp tweet

More from Lue Elizondo: "What the emails actually prove is:
1) I did indeed work in AATIP
2) I was in a Senior position
3) The videos were coordinated for release the proper way and the decision was a group decision
4) The Pentagon, and not Luis Elizondo, approved release."

I have to say i missed all those points myself.

new george knapp tweet

As for the notion by the conspiracy theorist that some how I released the videos under false pretenses is further negated by the following:

A) At the time of the request, AATIP was still a small and sensitive program that I was not at liberty to discuss among a broader audience. As such, I used the term UAS as a general phrase that people could understand without specifically highlighting UAPs.

B) That individuals who were also part of the AATIP and UAP effort and who ultimately authorized the release were CCd on all the emails so those who needed to know, absolutely knew. This is the "OCA" or better known as the Original Classification Authority. This is evident by the fact that the Pentagon chose to redact their names, namely because they are still part of the effort and work at the Pentagon.

C) It was the Pentagon and not me who believed releasing the videos to a broader audience would be easier. One can read my emails to see I wanted to keep the videos protected but they felt releasing them at the unrestricted level would be easier and more efficient.

D) The reason why it reads "Not Applicable" under the section "PUBLICATION" is because last I checked you can't "publish a video" you "release a video". As such, I did not want to confuse DOPSR by indicating I wanted to publish the videos...we wanted to release them instead. Proper English grammar. ---Luis Elizondo

Link


lol,Just lol

a reply to: IMSAM

The emails don't prove Zondo worked for AATIP (noted he's no longer claiming he was Director now)
They don't even confirm he was in a senior (any) position for AATIP. Although they confirm he was Director, National Programs Special Management Staff, OUSD(I). Which I think was established a long time ago anyway.

The claim that the videos were coordinated for release the proper way would seem correct as far as Elizondo is concerned. Although the approval for release seems to once again be in that grey world of TTSA. The form Zondo used is intended for releasing materials into the public domain. The comments contradict this stating this was only cleared for inhouse use. But there is no signatory on the form approving the request!

It's rather amusing that Zondo only came up with an idea for a repository of UFOs (but obviously he couldn't ask for UFO videos!) a month before he was due to leave the Pentagon!

...
Unmanned aerial vehicles (balloons, commercial UAVs, private drones such as quadcopters, etc) continue to pose a potential threat to DoD facilities, equipment, and location. Army, Navy, and Air Force have all acknowledged the potential threat by UAS's to DoD equities but no single UNCLASSIFIED repository exists to share this information across all stakeholders....

Hey MM

have they addresed the fact that these videos circulate for 10+ years now? I got a feeling ufology will be in a great spot once this whole ttsa ends. The greer way

Also interesting to see knapp fighting the "good" fight as dolan often says

a reply to: IMSAM

I haven't seen anything that confirms the videos have been in circulation for over a decade. I only know of the one posted here in 2007.

.... I got a feeling ufology will be in a great spot once this whole ttsa ends.

I think they are only just getting started.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Perhaps we're all on different steps of that ladder, depending where and when we joined the whole UFO circus?

I do think this element does come into play in some respects, if you were new to this field and it was the NYT article that brought you in, theres no reason to chastise those people if they are simply not aware of all the BS that has come before.

I do think the same goes the otherway, the "woke" New Believers do chastise the "old guard" of Ufology for being too negative as they have been "burned" too many times before.

I mean this isn't therapy..."ohhh I have been hurt before, cry cry cry" - this is a topic of interest that is of interest to people new and old. People should rely on evidence, the transparency of that evidence and who is delivering it and for what purpose. I mean its quite simple if you think about it!

The latest is Zondos words through George Knapp?? I am pretty sure Zondo is a big boy and can speak for himself or can't he? He Said, She Said....deny it was out of context or retract.. Insert other BS here...

As for "experiencers" - I have seen some bloody weird stuff in my life before, I don't go chasing the nearest GREY ALIENS as a solution though, its simply unexplained. I simply do not know "what" and have no evidence to back up my claims, I have no chips in the overall game and treat myself with the same strict rules of engagement that I shine upon others.

As for TTSA - I think MM is correct, they have only just got started. However, how they are going to keep the momentum going is an interesting question.... there is no new TV show for a while?

a reply to: mirageman

Yep. Just the start.

GK "Once again, this is yet another attempt by a few ANtagonists to bend facts around their false narrative. "
I see researchers who question the TTSA narrative as the PROtagonists at this point.

This TTSA #show will go on as long as the shareholders don't revolt. Most of them aren't savvy investors, more fans but ya never know.
The absolute lunacy of Toms behavior, the lack of producing anything on the science and tech side (well they did a JV on life saving Advertising tech) and the fraudulently positioned Mylar balloons and industrial slag/stock geology photos as being exotic non human tech would not stand up in any court.
Toms constant "they are a threat" tweets can be positioned very easily as fraudulent in order to encourage investment. He needs to be gagged if they had anyone in that organization with an understanding TTSA has raised funds publicly so they are subject to many of the same laws that apply to large corporations. Disclosure laws and regulations are monitored and enforced by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). This threat narrative can work within the secrecy shields of government, but not a public company.

They were utterly stupid opening up a class A shares holders whom they have a fiduciary responsibility to.
This is where they will trip themselves up. They are accountable to shareholders. The entertainment piece of the business is the only part that will survive intact, and entertainment is the lane they need in to stay and continue to produce fictional shows and books etc so they are within the scope of their offering. There will be no ashtray with a pen spaceship.

They are also a Public Benefit Company (tax purposes) so their will be some audit or oversight on their claim of that hopefully.

IMSAM, the Nimitz footage was out and around the place since 07, so yes they do need to explain why they are selling to shareholders and the public alike they were responsible for the release of this video. Unless they left it out as an achievement in their annual report, I didn't see if they did. I guess they could always argue all "disclosures" where fictional and for entertainment only purposes.