Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: pigsy2400

If we go by your assumption that the issue is as old man itself, is it possible for the "issue" to be any older or not?

Absolutely. These beings existed before we did, but they are of a spiritual nature, not human, although they have the ability to transform themselves into the physical for stints of time (not permanent).

a reply to: Deetermined

What was the control mechanism then? Before....

a reply to: pigsy2400

I'm not sure what you're asking, except that God created "all creatures" and everything answers to him.

originally posted by: Deetermined
I'm not sure what you're asking, except that God created "all creatures" and everything answers to him.

If you believe humankind was brought into existence fully realized (Adam/Eve), then do you believe God was the control structure for this "other(s)"? If so, is the control still maintained by God or has it been subsumed by humankind?

If you believe humankind was the product of evolution, then at what point did humans develop a control mechanism (assuming they have)? Was it an evolutionary development following the transition from homo-sapien to homo-sapien-sapien? Was it prior to that?

If you believe evolution+God(s), then is the control layer humanity+God or some other dynamic?

Who is watching the watchers, and whom are the watchers watching? (How many watchers would watch a watch if watchers could watch watches?)

Put differently - When the phenomena shoots a gun who's intent is being expressed and who pulls the trigger? (sorry for the bad analogy but I'm low on caffeine)

“We can recognize it for what it is - the result of a shifting of our mythological structure, the human learning curve bending toward a new cosmic behavior. When this irreversible learning is achieved, the UFO phenomenon may go away entirely. Or it may assume some suitable representation on a human scale. The angels may land downtown.” -Vallee, 'A Specific Rationale for Vallee’s UFO Control System'

For context...(clicky)

a reply to: Deetermined

According to Crowley and Parson, that would've been the Demiurge. The creator-god God created for the job, if you will. It's complicated...
However. We could find even more compelling stories in the Mahabharata, imho, with Vimanas and divine weapons.

Btw... Baablack,

Paracelsus had a black dog as well!

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: mirageman


Regardless of whether or not the Bible is an accurate reflection of history (which no one can prove otherwise) is beside the point. The point is that people dating back to the Bible knew and understood that we deal with beings that aren't from this world. This knowledge is as old as man itself, but some will always refuse to acknowledge it and scoff at it.

People dating back to he Bible did not "know and understand" that we deal with beings that are aren't from this world. That is pure conjecture on your part and nothing more than belief.

Also you are contradicting yourself by then saying this 'belief' is as old as man himself.

I think we should get back on topic.

a reply to: ParticleNode

God still maintains ULTIMATE control over everything, but these spiritual beings have more power than we do. They aren't limited to physics, space, and time like we are and they have powerful abilities. All of us, including them, have free will. God will allow all of us to express that free will with each other to a degree. These spirit entities can use their powers to influence us, and can try to convince us that they have control over us, but they don't. In the end, these entities will convince us to be the ones to "pull the trigger". I hope that helps to answer your question.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ParticleNode

God still maintains ULTIMATE control over everything, but these spiritual beings have more power than we do. They aren't limited to physics, space, and time like we are and they have powerful abilities. All of us, including them, have free will. God will allow all of us to express that free will with each other to a degree. These spirit entities can use their powers to influence us, and can try to convince us that they have control over us, but they don't. In the end, these entities will convince us to be the ones to "pull the trigger". I hope that helps to answer your question.

Pure belief and unproven.


Get back on topic please.

a reply to: mirageman

People dating back to he Bible did not know and understand that we deal with being that are aren't from this world.

That didn't make much sense, but there's historical proof that people in the Bible existed on this earth and they knew exactly what was going on.

Ephesians 6:12

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

So, if you really want to get this thread "back on topic" even though it's not off topic to begin with, why isn't anyone providing their views or thoughts on what Elizondo has shared about such things?

Why do you think Elizondo says that everyone should be given access to this secret information to make heads or tails out of it themselves?

Regarding this, Zondo said in the series Unidentified, and the statement gave me the impression he wasn’t at all interested in the aliens and Bible angle.
I Recall, he said, the suppression of information about Ufos was done by religious fanatics in the military who thought they were demons. I got the impression he wasn’t interested in that Bible angle and wasn’t too happy about that suppression.


Maybe those people are gone now and therefore there may be more openness to the subject.

Of course, our friend, the prolific writer Nick Redfern, dealt with this in one his books. link

a reply to: mirageman

Pure belief and unproven.

If you want to get technical, the whole topic of this thread is based on an unproven subject. That's why we're here to discuss it.

While you may think that the television show, "Unidentified: Inside America's UFOs" is somehow being driven towards entertainment purposes, did you ever stop to think that they're just revealing what they know, and that it just happens to be limited or that it's not what everyone thinks or wants it to be?

a reply to: Willtell

Regarding this, Zondo said in the series Unidentified, and the statement gave me the impression he wasn’t at all interested in the aliens and Bible angle.

I Recall, he said, the suppression of information about Ufos was done by religious fanatics in the military who thought they were demons. I got the impression he wasn’t interested in that Bible angle and wasn’t too happy about that suppression.

While he may not be happy about it, you have to wonder why a once known professional in the Pentagon thinks that our government should leave it open for everyone's own interpretation to decide what they want on the subject.

a reply to: Willtell

Of course, our friend, the prolific writer Nick Redfern, dealt with this in one his books. link

Thanks for the link! Sounds like a fascinating book!

OK... but I am not seeing any suggestions of a biblical reference from anyone involved at TTSA. Even DeLonge when he was spouting of about gods and aliens and spoon bending all being real. Something post TTSA launch date is no longer a thing and certainly not mentioned by Elizondo.

From all accounts AATIP was shut down because of the views of certain Christian fundamentalists within the Pentagon

The AATIP/BAASS study was sabotaged then defunded in large part because a cabal of religious fundamentalists inside the national security apparatus believes UFOs and paranormal are satanic and by studying them, we risk inviting Satan into our world.

George Knapp , September 5, 2018

a reply to: mirageman

OK... but I am not seeing any suggestions of a biblical reference from anyone involved at TTSA. Even DeLonge when he was spouting of about gods and aliens and spoon bending all being real.

LOL! What do you think he's referring to when he's talking about "gods"? Yeah, I'm sure the fact that he sings for a group called "Angels and Airwaves" doesn't have anything to do with it either. You're funny.

originally posted by: mirageman
OK... but I am not seeing any suggestions of a biblical reference from anyone involved at TTSA. Even DeLonge when he was spouting of about gods and aliens and spoon bending all being real. Something post TTSA launch date is no longer a thing and certainly not mentioned by Elizondo.

Yes, it was quite a turnaround once TTSA was launched.

I have no reason to doubt that DeLonge still holds those beliefs, and that they were nonchalantly brushed under the TTSA carpet once the ex Big Boys from the IC gave him that funny look, as if to say:



"Yeah yeah, we know you've read loads of UFO books and claim to KNOW our UFO 'secret'... but ya need to crank the brakes on that God stuff, kid."

originally posted by: ParticleNode

I had heard of the infamous Clinton/Rockefeller meeting but had no idea there was a veritable private conference with some of the big names of the time. It was interesting to read Vallee's response to the invite as well - he seemed reticent to delve into details or get involved in the "think tank" effort. Good for him.

I think Rockefeller always had sincere intentions but some of the names on that list fall into the "opportunist" category.

Don't know about Laurence Rockefeller's agenda (or sincerity) but there's also some relevant info buried in this short video - also didn't realise his close connections to the aerospace industry.

originally posted by: ParticleNode
I thought I was fairly well-versed on the topic but every time I jump in this thread I find I don't know s___.

Mate I think that applies to all of us and the entire subject in general.

a reply to: Deetermined

LOL! What do you think he's referring to when he's talking about "gods"? Yeah, I'm sure the fact that he sings for a group called "Angels and Airwaves" doesn't have anything to do with it either.

Tom was making out that Atlantis is real and Greek Gods were aliens. I don't think those views are supported in the Bible. (Although I could be wrong I've never read it!)

I'm sure Buddy Holly was an entomologist based on that synopsis and Sting was once interested in law enforcement. I'll leave AC/DC out of this debate though.

a reply to: mirageman

don't think those views are supported in the Bible. (Although I could be wrong I've never read it!) 

Busy weekend for you then MM. Bible study.

For the record. Though I’m not a regular Bible reader, I have read it. And believe me, it's not too crazy about “the gods”. It’s heavy on the monotheism theme. “Hear Oh Israel, he God is one.”

TTSA is not as far as I can see into any kind of religious angle. Maybe Peter Levenda somewhat, but not any traditional religious Biblical sense since he espouses the aliens are maybe the “gods”, not God, in the theistic traditional religious sense.

Now this of course is a topic for another thread, and it’s a good and interesting topic to discuss in another thread: indeed, the possibility that this alien UFO phenomenon may be some kind of manifestation of the “God” of the theistic, traditional religions is a worthy topic for debate and should have its own thread. Though, I wouldn’t be interested in starting it but might contribute to it.

But clearly, as I can see TTSA has no traditional religious agenda. Unless I missed something, which is possible.