Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: Guest101

Whatever man. Funny how the OP here doesn't attack both Lt Ryan Graves and Aucoin (active duty fighter pilots) who both are also on public record with an even better account of UAPs than Fravor.

But then again the OP doesn't want qualified and trained fighter pilots giving their opinions on other flying craft. We really need game developers who've never sat in the cockpit or ever flow a fighter jet for that level of discernment.

LOL.

I did experience a little of whatever "woo" is but in the long-run, whatever it is, whether "paranormal" as Knapp even called it himself or some Jungian derivative of our own consciousness it really didn't seem to leave any of my friends and associates with more depth and life-quality. Quite the opposite in many cases.

This. A thousand times this.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
... if anyone wanted to do a case study of the insertion of social memes, how and why people believe things, this thread over the course of the last few weeks would be a fantastic place to start. Hell, get someone interested in Neuroscience on the job!

We could try and lure him out...


PSSST! Here, boy....! Over here... got some tasty Young Gun data for ya... don't be shy...




Meanwhile, I'm struggling through episode 6 of 'Unedifying', where nothing of consequence - let alone evidence - has been presented by the halfway point. I was hoping that the Italian case TTSA were hyping had nothing to do with that dodgy 2004 incident regarding arsonists lighting fires across a region, accompanied by very dubious UFO reports... but my hopes were in vain. A blurry photo of a speck in the sky near a helicopter is not a smoking gun - hell, it's not even a damp squib.

Amusingly, the Italian equivalent of Zondo was a merry-yet-sinister old soul who reminded me of a Latin version of Polish actor Vladek Sheybal, renowned for a role he played in - ironically - the TV series "UFO" (1969-70)':




Anyway, I'll continue hacking my way through the 'season finale' - perhaps I'll get to see fire-breathing dragons and randy dwarves at the climax!

Originally posted by the GUT:

I did experience a little of whatever "woo" is but in the long-run, whatever it is, whether "paranormal" as Knapp even called it himself or some Jungian derivative of our own consciousness it really didn't seem to leave any of my friends and associates with more depth and life-quality. Quite the opposite in many cases.

originally posted by: Sublant

I did experience a little of whatever "woo" is but in the long-run, whatever it is, whether "paranormal" as Knapp even called it himself or some Jungian derivative of our own consciousness it really didn't seem to leave any of my friends and associates with more depth and life-quality. Quite the opposite in many cases.

This. A thousand times this.

Yes, this should be sewn into a pillow.

My brushes with the woo were nothing if not highly disruptive, disorienting, and sadly diverting. And completely incompatible with what passes for our consensus reality.

NOTE: This post ended up far longer than anticipated; apologies in advance...

originally posted by: coursecatalog

My brushes with the woo were nothing if not highly disruptive, disorienting, and sadly diverting. And completely incompatible with what passes for our consensus reality.

I may be highly dismissive of TTSA's antics, but that doesn't mean I'm personally Woo-free.

As mentioned before, my wife's close sighting (with a friend present) of a massive, silent, beam-emitting black triangular UFO was not a joyous happy-clappy experience in the slightest - in fact, they were both absolutely terrified and ran away as fast as their legs could carry them. She is still reluctant to talk about it; chills her out, and the fact she'd forgotten the sighting for many years also confuses her. I'm sort of jealous... but not 100% jealous!

I personally haven't seen UFOs, but my In-Law's Cornish home was like a mini Skinwalker Ranch, replete with 'orange saucers' flying overhead; violent poltergeist activity (which was my personal and only experience there whilst visiting occasionally); black smokey figures gliding across rooms; low-profile poltergeist activity such as objects being moved and pictures turned upside down; my Dad-in-law's bed literally shaking up and down (he was no longer a sceptic); the manifestation of a large black dog out of nowhere (that terrified an uncle out of his wits); and, maybe freakiest of all (which I rarely mention), my brother-in-law got into his car there one evening and saw a pair of fiery red eyes - no face or body attached - staring at him from the back seat, 'floating' in mid-air.

My bro-in-law is a one big, tough cookie, but that shook him up for weeks; I still remember the look on his face as he related it - shook ME up, too. There may be non-paranormal explanations for some of these events, but not all. Not yet anyway.

And yet I still harbour huge suspicions about the Skinwalker Ranch case. So whatever TTSA, Knapp and his apprentice Corbell cook up to inform or entertain the masses, it doesn't take away from our personal or family experiences.

PS: Not related here before (on forum or PM/emails), I did have a bizarre 'hitchhiker' experience as a teen, concerning a notoriously haunted (now boarded-up) house in my County that I and some friends decided to visit one night many years ago for a laugh. We couldn't enter the premises, but we checked and stared through the windows, giggling childishly until suddenly a mass of what I can only describe as an 'inky blackness' inside one room seemed to rush at us as we stared through one window. We all freaked out in unison and, yes, ran away!

Even stranger, I got a cab home (when I was still living with my parents) that night - just me and the driver - and kept feeling like someone else was in the back seat with me. I shrugged it off, but even when I got home, I sensed something else had entered the house with me. Again I shrugged it off. During the night, however, while I was asleep, my mother woke up and heard a deep yet whispery male voice calling her name from downstairs in the kitchen (of all places)... "Lucita!" (she's Spanish)... which continued for some minutes until she went downstairs to investigate. Nobody there.

However, for the next three days the kitchen door (why the bloody kitchen?) leading to the garage kept opening of its own accord, despite being firmly shut. And my freaked-out mum knew nothing of my own experience at the house or feelings thereafter, which I still kept to myself when she told me about the voice the next morning (so as not to freak her out further). After three days, the sense of another presence subsided, but it certainly left an impression on me, even though I've been reluctant to talk about it - dunno why, silly really since ATS is the perfect place to do so.

Sorry about the waffle; hope I didn't spook anybody out too much!

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Meanwhile, I'm struggling through episode 6 of 'Unedifying', where nothing of consequence - let alone evidence - has been presented by the halfway point. I was hoping that the Italian case TTSA were hyping had nothing to do with that dodgy 2004 incident regarding arsonists lighting fires across a region, accompanied by very dubious UFO reports... but my hopes were in vain. A blurry photo of a speck in the sky near a helicopter is not a smoking gun - hell, it's not even a damp squib.

We're supposed to be impressed by the navy upgrading they're pilots ability to relate ufo encounters. They are claiming credit for that. You could see TDL blushing and feeling like he accomplished something.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Well, I personally am a believer in what people here may think is woo and have experienced much of it as well. I won’t go into it but I have posted some of that in the past.

The very basis of ufology is filled with “woo”. BTW, a term I don’t like as being derogatory of legitimate nonlogical, or otherworldly, or occult experiences of people, which are very prevalent in human experience.

What I don’t like is people who take advantage of real otherworldly experiences and use that for personal gain or conjecture they know what its all about and start a cult or become a Guru and basically exploit people.

But the woo mockers I believe in the end will understand one man’s woo can be just another’s ignorance or immaturity or lack of experience.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

We're supposed to be impressed by the navy upgrading they're pilots ability to relate ufo encounters. They are claiming credit for that. You could see TDL blushing and feeling like he accomplished something.

Well, I assume that these guidelines are regularly updated, and not necessarily anything to do with Zondo & Co. And that was the climax of the so-called "Season Finale"??? After learning how the Italians were aghast at Tom's hyperbolic tweets about a helicopter being "shot down" (as pre-broadcast hype for the Young Guns' benefit) rather than the far less dramatic reality of the Italian report, I gave up watching at the halfway point.

Has a second season been commissioned yet? In any case, I prefer the enjoyably outlandish fiction of History's 'Project Bluebook' series - which DOES have a second season, even though some of the fiction pumped out by Zondo & Co seems to be competing with PBB!

And will TTSA apologise to Rendlesham's Jim Penniston for eradicating his own encounter on Night One (25th Dec 1980) and transplanting him into another Sergeant's boots on Night Three as a hapless observer of Burroughs' alleged and rather dubious encounter with a light after Trek's halt? (EDIT: a typo - I meant "Halt's trek" but I prefer the former!). I suppose they also need to apologise to Burroughs for editing out his entire account of Night One which he began relating on the show as "Christmas Night" when "on duty", but was crudely spliced into Night Three (when off duty).

It's all a bloody mess, innit?

originally posted by: Willtell

The very basis of ufology is filled with “woo”. BTW, a term I don’t like as being derogatory of legitimate nonlogical, or otherworldly, or occult experiences of people, which are very prevalent in human experience.

You made some very valid interesting points in your post, Will.

By the way, "Woo" is a word I have only known - and used - for less than a year since joining ATS. I actually find it quite an affectionate term, to be honest, rather than derogatory per se. But each to their own, I guess.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I recall you mentioning the Cornish experiences before but I can’t remember if I asked you at the time, whereabouts in Cornwall did these events happen? Forgive me if I written this before but your experiences brought back memories for me.

Our family briefly owned an ancestral home between Tintagel and Boscastle, part of which used to be an 11th century monastery. Its one of the creepiest places I’ve ever been and is known as one of the most haunted houses in the country. There’s a spot in the old section that will raise the hair on your skin just by walking through it, with a really heightened feeling of being watched. Doing that in the early hours to get milk for my newborn was absolutely terrifying. People have often heard voices, heard objects moving etc (my missus’ bracelet rattled on the table near her head which freaked her right out). You kind of have to make peace with whatever is there just to get by and live in the same space, it’s like an unseen resident trying to get your attention. The dreams you have in that place, every single morning without fail, very realistic and otherworldly.

One night I was driving down the narrow lane to the village with my dad and what I can only describe as a cross between a teddy bear (it was furry and yellow), a starfish and a hand - about a foot high - just walked across the road in front of us. We both saw it and cant explain to this day what it was, but it seems to be entirely normal to experience such strangeness in North Cornwall.

The path next to the house is supposedly haunted by two twin sisters who were murdered there centuries ago, which leads to a waterfall where a hermit lived and drew occult signs on his walls. Then there’s the nature spirits that live at the foot of the waterfall, just up from rocks enscribed with the labyrinth pattern.

Also the witch museum is in Boscastle just down the road, a mound where Sir Walter Raleigh held shamanic-like meetings is in the village, you’ve got the legend of King Arthur’s castle round the corner. I miss that place.

If anyone is looking for UK version of Skinwalker then Cornwall is a county-wide ranch of high strangeness. That is for sure.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit


I use it as I am of a lower level "Wooo experiencer " ...of low intellect and low critical thinking abilities that likes to be titillated by being spooked and will never know the inner sanctum of true wooo lol


Willtell, for me, It's easier to type out than paranormal! Simple as that my friend.

Edit in : CB your story is awesome make a thread on Cornwall! The red eye yikes!

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I understand you but while watching the debates with Deepak Chopra and Sam Harris and another famous debunker, they used the term on Deepak very derogatorily. That’s where I got that impression from.


I don’t want to be misunderstood. I’m am not a believer in any old weird tales. I’m for “proof” as much as possible.

But in today's world where physicists hypothesize Supersymmetry or a multiverse as very possible. That is a world of infinite dimensions. I think anybody who ipso facto dismisses non-logical perceptions and experiences is pretty backward or dense.


As regards TTSA. I think their woo comes from the Levenda side of their group.

a reply to: The GUT

The Esoteric and woo mysteries is a great draw card for membership from people panting to find out answers to....( fill in the blanks).
Implying one will never know true inner sanctum wooo lol. The way to intrigue is to imply 'you'll never get in here with us, but try"
I mentioned back about a week ago it looks like TTSA are employing a two pronged marketing approach.

- Woo-Tainment for crowdfunding and general public and young gun soul collecting.
- A fear inducing psy op to get IRAD funding from congress.

Putin and The Trickster have been very busy indeed according to TTSA.

I agree completely with you about what happens when you open yourself up to it all. Look at Crowley, he ended up old, broke and a junkie living in a half way house in the end.

I find it interesting to read about, but I enjoy ALL history and social study and admittedly I find it mildly amusing to watch the deluded "inner sanctum" dwellers creating their own destruction and miseries.
Peering in at "it" is different to being part of creating it

By being an observer of the wooo and not an active occultist doesn't mean parts of it isn't true. I have seen it lead to madness in people who don't know they are playing out archetypal patterns. It eats them from the inside out. They are NEVER in control.

Our good old ATS friend Jeff Ritzman once said something along the lines of 'when you go in researching and living these mysteries, don't expect to come out without your life being completely ruined'

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Wonderfully insightful post above, Zazz. I always encouraged my friends to embrace the word and make it their own and most of them did. Takes the sting out and and flips it.

I've enjoyed reading the woo experiences here y'all, btw, and while I still don't know what to make of my own I'm totally happy to leave it alone and not be poking it with a stick so-to-speak.

Back to TTSA---could that DIA guy have been Mellon you reckon? I definitely get that woo--even occult--vibe going on with him. We know it's true about Puthoff/Davis/Bigelow/Green/Vallee/Levenda, etc and I'm thinking it's pretty safe to say that most of TTSA participate in the mystery school community. Lue is a Woo-Woo for sure.

Lue is a Woo-Woo for sure.

Is he? I agree about the rest of the TTSA crew, but to me Elizondo seems like your pretty typical military/IC guy.

a reply to: Sublant

I think only Tom is True Woo Woo.

I don't believe out of nowhere Lou approached Bigelow to visit the ranch. Just my suspicious nature, but I figure that was set up by others.

I agree with you he is CIA/Soldier through and through.
He is flashing the woo card to draw in interest.
His interview in the below video announced his Gnostic understanding of 'Sophia' falling and she became pregnant with emotions, but I think it is 'post script' taught to him. Actually if you watch him in the first minute he looks like he is reciting or reading this concepts of "mankinds". It comes across completely unnatural for him, and not extending from any esoteric journey he undertook over a lifetime, he is being a spook.

Maybe post his theatrical performances it opened him up to woo and he is now card carrying

a reply to: Sublant

I can see why y'all say that and I could be wrong. I think it for a couple of reasons but as I was reading the Knapp transcript where George does some double-speak and seems to basically say that Lue was the unofficial head of an informal group made up of AATIP members and some from other agencies. That would explain the discrepancies we've seen about Lue's official role.

But it also seems to me--if the above is true--that the woo crew wouldn't see him as their "small group" leader unless he was of the same mind. If he is woo, I do think he's a fairly recent convert however.

a reply to: The GUT

If you believe Grant Cameron then Jim Semivan had a bizarre experience in his bedroom with some kind of entity appearing to him. He allegedly went to his higher ups in the CIA (and maybe even Pandolfi) to find out more about what it could be and they told him to leave it alone and forget about it.

Once he retired he joined TTSA so I guess he wasn't ready to leave it alone.

originally posted by: firesnake
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I recall you mentioning the Cornish experiences before but I can’t remember if I asked you at the time, whereabouts in Cornwall did these events happen? Forgive me if I written this before but your experiences brought back memories for me.

Hi, firesnake. The house was in East Looe, Cornwall. As I said, my own experience was limited to quite aggressive poltergeist activity one night and a somewhat different experience the next morning - which was related in my Introductory Thread upon joining ATS. My wife and family had deliberately avoided telling me beforehand about the other admittedly more frightening events, and I don't blame them, frankly.

I remember my wife's mum sitting outside the house when we returned from an evening out. She said she was just feeling hot, but much later admitted that something was violently 'thumping' all four walls of the sitting room, which she'd experienced before but not so violently. Personally, I found it all FASCINATING and ripe for deeper investigation/research, although few other family members shared that emotion and were happy to just get out!

Our family briefly owned an ancestral home between Tintagel and Boscastle, part of which used to be an 11th century monastery. Its one of the creepiest places I’ve ever been and is known as one of the most haunted houses in the country. There’s a spot in the old section that will raise the hair on your skin just by walking through it, with a really heightened feeling of being watched.

One night I was driving down the narrow lane to the village with my dad...

Thanks for the fascinating experiences, especially the bizarre Teddy-type creature. You reminded me of another aspect I didn't experience myself but many others did: an absolute feeling of pure Dread that seemed to occur and pass without explanation some days. Whether that was due to experiencing other events, I don't know. There could be a natural explanation for that (and the UFOs seen) such as electro-magnetic forces in the area (a friend on ATS recently helped me out with such potential explanations), but other events were just too plain bizarre to accommodate one such source.

I can't and won't jump to conclusions of any kind (although tempting), only relate the events themselves.

If anyone is looking for UK version of Skinwalker then Cornwall is a county-wide ranch of high strangeness. That is for sure.

It seems so. Zondo needs to get on a transatlantic flight! I'm sure Zazza would agree, too.

originally posted by: coursecatalog

a reply to: The GUT

If you believe Grant Cameron then Jim Semivan had a bizarre experience in his bedroom with some kind of entity appearing to him.

Didn't Joe Firmage claim to have exactly the same experience (before his temporary crazy drink & drugs downfall)?

He allegedly went to his higher ups in the CIA (and maybe even Pandolfi)...

Since Pandolfi claims to be married to ***cough*** an extra-terrestrial wife, it would have been appropriate if he HAD been there. I think he also claims his family regularly uses interdimensional portals as if catching a Number 10 bus!


Meanwhile, back on planet Earth (sort of), is Zondo a True Woo-Man? As GUT intimated, if he is, he's still in the early stages of development. His embarrassing car-crash speech to Italians only last October that mentioned Roswell (spit) and existing "photographs" of the 1952 Washington flyover, show that he is still in the nursery, making fundamental mistakes.

TTSA's inept, mistake-ridden treatment of Rendlesham's bare facts is testament to that, too.