Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

You mean their new ownership of the Rendlesham Forest story?

From the Rojas/Pope interview it also sounds as if Condign might come into it. At least as regards UAP effects on human physiology.

Does anyone know if there was anything of possible interest to the topic here in the later releases of Condign? A quick search a few days ago didn't seem to turn up much discussion on these addendum but Pope brought it up a couple of times. Of course that could've been just more ego self-massaging because of what he sees as his contribution. He seemed to almost single-handedly take credit for the new UAP terminology.

I also seem to recall some trolling earlier in the thread about IsaacKoi's criticism of the first release.

As BeeTee wisely pondered, how FAR will TTSA try to expand from these foundations... at least before the wings are finally clipped?

The Dark Journalist (or is it Charlie Sheen doing General Zod with extra lashing of Zondo hair-dye?) has achieved a vicious take-down of the organisation in the last video that IMSAM kindly posted, but can he dent the giant wave of Young Gun love for 'Beautiful Lue'?

originally posted by: The GUT


From the Rojas/Pope interview it also sounds as if Condign might come into it. At least as regards UAP effects on human physiology.

Does this mean a grand entrance, finally, by Dr Deat... er Dr Kit Green, with Burroughs in tow?

(Still watching us, Kit ? I'll do some cartwheels for ya; I can also juggle some 'mellons' if you prefer.)

Pope brought it up a couple of times. Of course that could've been just more ego self-massaging because of what he sees as his contribution. He seemed to almost single-handedly take credit for the new UAP terminology.

Awww, bless 'im. Little Nick was very proud of the fact that "UAP" was first used by the UK Ministry Of Defence as a 'sensible' alternative. Now that he's swinging his cojones in the USA and cultivating a more macho image, I doubt we're that sad to have seen him go.

A lot of people are saying well done. I don’t see well done. I see ordinary and trying to be realistic on purpose. I see a pantomime…

And BTW this IS NOT A WELL produced show. It’s done with very cheesy artwork and stock aircraft film. Of course, they want to appear realistic. It appears to be a very cheap production technically and editorially has no revelations, or new data, disclosure, anything approaching novelty is in that show. In other words, everything in the show could have been done in the first 10 minutes in a narrative form.

No new technology, no new methodologies, just some emotional, almost cheerleading type of encouragement to study ufos.

Another kind of begging the government through seeking congressional association to study what has already been studied.
With the reality that this group IS FROM THE GOVERNMENT IC community with direct connections to it.

Didn’t TDL run around saying he met all these IC spooks FROM THE US GOVERNMENT before the launch of TTSA?
Then where’s all the drama coming from?

Zondos frustration that the government won’t give him the means to study this?

So the government is lobbying who? Congress?

It’s the government that is BEHIND TTSA!

Aren’t we forgetting TDL said he wanted to help them make propaganda praising their work on ufos?
“we’ve seen a life form” or we saw a life form. Whatever.


I have no problem with TTSAs BS and don't mind they have a group of idolators at all.

Every cult has its following

a reply to: The GUT

There are a few things I think worthy of discussion here GUT. But Condign can wait until last.

If you cast your mind back 7 years to when you authored the highly informative (and at times trolled by both soft and hard tactics whenever the nest seemed disturbed

) - The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs. Well it's a long time since I read it. But there are a couple of paragraphs that caught my attention again.

The military application of neuroscience research

-
Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists
Several of the cognitive science applications that have the most enormous ethical implication (as described by Huang and Kosal) contain advances that are being made even faster than publicly thought. These advances do not include lie detection technology, whose potential to invade the privacy of individuals is an unrealistic scientific possibility (I'm waiting for a theory of mind to be developed first!). They do include an approach to near-real-time, multimodal cognitive measurements to "watch people think" while under stress (an achievable goal scientifically) not under duress (an unachievable goal scientifically).

Not all of the "good" research will be done exclusively in the West--at least not before 2015. The results of this work will make sick people well and soldiers safer, but the technologies will not exclusively follow Western views on ethical questions, such as human stem-cell research, research on willing prisoners, and work on human-animal chimeras…

Archived Link : The potential impact of neuroscience research is greater than previously thought

While leaving us wondering what has changed since 2015? The article goes on to say....

.....The shrinking differences between the science of neural discovery aimed at helping sick people and the work being done to enhance soldier performance will likely dominate policy discussions at the end of the day. Notably, this will be seen in human and operator performance enhancement and neuropharmacology, as addressed by Huang and Kosal.

Individual scientists in the areas of cultural anthropology and ethnography will soon be trained in the physics of neuroimaging and neuropharmacology. Thus, learning about why people misbehave will be subjugated to learning new methods of unethical manipulation of innocent peoples' behaviors. This roundtable may give a new and frightening meaning to the already scary 20-year-old dual-use construct.

Now here we are in 2019 with a company that like to hint it's all about UFO disclosure and create illusions of what it is really up to. But sitting there behind the spooks in the background is an advisory team all schooled in neuroscience and human biology. It's getting more and more likely that this decade old research on the military application of neuroscience research and TTSA are actual very closely linked.

originally posted by: mirageman

If you cast your mind back 7 years to when you authored the highly informative (and at times trolled by both soft and hard tactics whenever the nest seemed disturbed

)

It always confused me that those bizarre trolling tactics (sometimes up to consecutive two pages' worth of sabotage) only served to draw MORE attention to the thread - so they're either complete morons, or there was some twisted logic to their madness.

Perhaps all part of the Great Observation Game. Which reminds me - this thread's hamster-wheel needs some H&S maintenance.

But sitting there behind the spooks in the background is an advisory team all schooled in neuroscience and human biology. It's getting more and more likely that this decade old research on the military application of neuroscience research and TTSA are actual very closely linked.

As you can probably tell, GUT's invaluable 2012 thread left me incredibly well-informed but, regarding the spooks, also feeling disgusted, a little bit used, and not a little bit incensed.

Even though I know it's all a necessary part of the overall learning curve.

PS: One of the most telling parts of the thread was when the Hand Of God rested on GUT's shoulder, gently telling him that Dr Green was a nice, pleasant, smiling example of humanity at its best, and could not possibly have been aware of his good mate Dick Doty's 2005 Project SERPO misdemeanours, let alone have been actively involved in it.

When GUT made a return-serve that there's no doubt Dr Green knew about Doty's involvement in the 1984-onwards MJ-12 scam... the sound of silence in return was deafening.

a reply to: beetee

So, why is it that in stead of feeling giddy with excitement I feel this gnawing sense of foreboding? Why is it that in this beautiful concerto of 'disclosure' I cannot quite enjoy it because there is this eerie false note squeaking in the background?

Is it, as some say, because I am such a grumpy old bastard, burnt to many times to ever feel giddy again? Or is it because I have heard the same piece played so many times now I can recognize the violins of falsehood when they pipe up?

No you are correct BeeTee...its because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence....

TTSA has not delivered as of yet..... Unless they release the full videos or show the videos with instantaneous acceleration and rapid right angle turns.... what we have seen can all be explain as either balloons, birds, radar reflectors, etc.

What has finally helped me understand why I was approaching this subject incorrectly was a thought experiment.

Simply... lets pretend that TTSA claimed to have proof of fire breathing Dragons...
For me to entertain such an Extraordinary claim....
I would require Extraordinary evidence....

The same logic should apply to TTSA's claim to have proof or UAPs/UFOs.

I blame the New York Times for this......

By publishing these articles they provided confirmation/validation of a claim that was significantly lacking credible evidence.
There must be something spectacular on the videos that was not released to the public.


If not then this story has to be the biggest failure in investigative journalism (besides the weapons of mass destruction Iraq war fiasco)

a reply to: mirageman

I always thought men like Kit Green and Hal Puthoff were more interested in the people who believed in ufos than the phenomenon itself.

One wonders how Jacques Vallee could have hung around those two and others and not be thought of being himself manipulated


Sure, the spooks have related ufology with neuroscience and related sciences and as GUT always points out occult mysticism…. John Alexander, for example, going around becoming a shaman.

IMO this all started with Andrija Puharich…he is the granddaddy of ufology and mental and occult sciences merging…

In TTSA, Peter Levenda is holding down that aspect of their team and of course, all those biologists are on the physical science level...a stew of ufology related fields. Something for everybody.

pretty slick

a reply to: IMSAM

Well, I sat down and watched it, and he certainly summed up quite nicely some of the problems we are having with TTSA on this forum.

Also the problems we have with some journalist not asking the tough questions.

Unless they are completely incompetent, which by his own research they are certainly not, they will have a come-back for this. Maybe they even want enough voices to be raised in protest and then they can cut them off at the feet in one fell swoop.

He has asked a lot of legitimate questions, but could it be that perhaps he has fallen into a little trap they have been carefully setting up? Or will they claim 'sinister forces' are trying to shut them down? More sinister than the CIA, which would take some doing...

I don't think they are done yet.

There is also the question of influence. How much reach does this "Dark journalist" really have?00

a reply to: celltypespecific

Well, we shall have to see what they can drum up ;-)

We should all be on our guard, though, which I think we are, so when they pull out their little ace (if it exists) then we need to watch their hands carefully.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

It always confused me that those bizarre trolling tactics (sometimes up to consecutive two pages' worth of sabotage) only served to draw MORE attention to the thread - so they're either complete morons, or there was some twisted logic to their madness.

Perhaps all part of the Great Observation Game. Which reminds me - this thread's hamster-wheel needs some H&S maintenance.

Related "narrative control" literature speaks of gleaning valuable information from present failures to be applied to future endeavors. Makes sense and I do think that comes into play here.

But there's another aspect that I find even more intriguing and one that I have attempted to prostitute in the past with little luck---rifts & ruffles. There have been rifts in the remote viewing community that I'm pretty sure came into play. I believe there were two opposed camps doing some work there.

Digging into TTSA and the young guns also keeps turning up remote viewing practitioners and enthusiasts, btw.

There have also been personality ruffles between past operational teammates. A cat named Frank Camper--who I communicated with outside of ATS--seemed to have an especial animus towards Kit and a few others. He seemed scared to get too froggy about it however which--if it wasn't b.s. meant to sow fear--is kind of fascinating.

Also: Has anything ever been determined when the same type stuff happens in MM's threads about any particular subjects that seem to especially bring it on?

a reply to: celltypespecific

Have any of your contacts and folk you are following elsewhere speculated on what the grand finale cliff-hanger is going to be, cellty?

Whatever concept they leave us hanging with between seasons will provide some pretty good clues to take a harder look at I'm thinking.

Condensed version of my thoughts on this series so far.

S1E1.

- Neither sets of F18s dispatched to intercept UFOs carried munitions. If a threat, why not arm your F18s? Paints a picture of “someone” knowing it wasn’t a threat and of this tech getting real world testing.

- Constant reference to these as “threat” when they’ve really not threatened anyone. Unknown or mysterious isn’t necessarily a threat.

- Not ruling out civilian sector making the breakthrough. Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program (BPP) 1996 -> 2002. Became Tau Zero Foundation. Diametric Drive.

S1E2.

- When tic tacs dropped off Princeton radar was it due to range limit or they literally disappeared of radar within its max range?

- Helo landed and confiscated tapes and required deletion of data. Really smells as MIC covering its own tracks.

- Steve Justice (Skunkworks) would not discuss Skunkworks testing protocols.

S1E3.

- Lou is very guarded about his “knowing” of things he cannot share.

S1E4

- What is this about object flying into 120 knot winds? 120 knot wind = CAT 4 hurricane?!?

- Possible enemy tech used to spy on US war games/training? Then why show yourself?

- Graves mentions watching HD versions of these videos. Why are public released versions the 640x640 versions? In a 4K world, where are the HD versions?

SUMMARY 1 -> 4. Still not sold on these being non-human technology. My current theory is Skunkworks type company has made breakthrough. Normal tech development or reverse engineer something that crashed in past? I’m open to either. Former seems most likely. I am convinced the anti gravity or other non-heat generating propulsion system has been created. How far along the R&D roadmap is the question.

Really interested in knowing more about BPP -> Tau Zero.

a reply to: The GUT

From the Rojas/Pope interview it also sounds as if Condign might come into it. At least as regards UAP effects on human physiology.

If they are going to torture us with by throwing in RFI, I wonder if they will be speaking to Malcolm Zicker .

Behavioural sciences are like salt, the ever present ingredient in any hearty UFO stew

originally posted by: PilSungMtnMan

SUMMARY 1 -> 4. Still not sold on these being non-human technology. My current theory is Skunkworks type company has made breakthrough. Normal tech development or reverse engineer something that crashed in past? I’m open to either. Former seems most likely. I am convinced the anti gravity or other non-heat generating propulsion system has been created. How far along the R&D roadmap is the question.

Really interested in knowing more about BPP -> Tau Zero.

The thought hits that if some team other than Skunkworks has made such advances then there are probably folk with security clearances--some of the Skunkworks brains for example--that know about it and understand the principles on which it works.

Being left in the cold like that might encourage some who would like to see the tech become public so they can start building stuff and cashing in too.

For a variety of reasons I doubt that's it, but I always keep an open mind for any theories that come along and fit better. In support of that theory I would note that Hal Puthoff has been itching for years to build an anti-grav platform.

A bit of Bird Trivia: The late intelligence asset and conman (much the same those two careers heh) Gordon Novel of JFK assassination/coup infamy was involved with Puthoff in a former business venture raising ca$h from investors with the claim that they were gonna build one.

a reply to: The GUT

A bit of Bird Trivia: The late intelligence asset and conman (much the same those two careers heh) Gordon Novel of JFK assassination/coup fame was involved with Puthoff in a former business venture raising ca$h from investors with the claim that they were gonna build one.

Novel was a unabashed shyster conman spook.
What does that tell you.

a reply to: The GUT

It really depends on how far along they are in development. Unstable or unreliable at this stage wouldn’t result in “cashing in”. There’s the possibility for every one caught on film by an F18 doing something incredible, there are 10 that imploded, exploded, went to the bottom of the ocean, lol.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

Novel was a unabashed shyster conman spook.
What does that tell you.

Birds of a feather and all that. Here's Novel with his good friends John and Victoria Alexander.

Puthoff tries to distance himself from RAM and Novel but the info is out there and can’t really be sidestepped. Here was the forward to the “business” plan:

February, 2008, a select group of notable physicists, business leaders, and technical experts met at SARA Headquarters in Cypress, California.  The assembly was gathered by Gordon Novel of RAM P & T, Inc. for the purpose of demonstrating evidence of RAM P & T’s proprietary propulsion drive.  This breakthrough technology was intensively scrutinized by many of the 17 attendees, including top experts which arrived from NASA, ODNI, SARA, and other notable scientific institutions including those from as far away as Australia and Washington DC. 

RAM experts went to the sources of the misunderstandings in common science by showing the point of error in many of the current text books being used to teach our post doctorate students today.   All supporting math was found to be valid for those top scientists who arrived with reservations they left with a new knowledge that the math and science was based on sound science.

RAM P & T (RAM) is seeking funding to build the next generation propulsion device, with knowledge gained from initial successful experiments and from solid, theoretical predictions. With initial funding of $20,000,000., some of which is in hand, we will be able to set up a new facility and start on a series of experiments that can complete the development of an environmentally safe, cheap and unlimited energy/propulsion source. 

This lab work, Phase I of the project, lasting about 20 months, will confirm the predictions that this technology can produce net energy/lift. Phase II will develop the technology to the point of a commercially viable prototype. A successful completion of Phase I will essentially assure commercial success, as no new technology will be needed for Phase II. Total funding required by RAM for Phase I and II of this project is $220 M.  RAM believes that some Phase II funding may be available from current Phase 1 committed sources.

Ready for this? The following extremely interesting item is also included in the article linked below and speaks of socks and spooks and…Kit! Not sure how hard it might be to access through Wayback Machine but finding some of the conversations on the Open Minds Forum referred to were eerily reminiscent—telling actually—of the trolling experienced in MM's threads and my MIB(OPs) thread.

To include some of the “socks” being extremely bizarre and going off-topic with metaphysical mumbo-jumbo and weird happenings they claimed to have experienced. Somewhere on the Reality Uncovered site there’s more information and confirmatory evidence on that aspect as relates to socks and birds.

Maybe it’s time to dig back into this in light of the current incarnation that is TTSA.

Essentially, he told us that a certain Kit Green is at least three other people on that forum and is responsible for the majority of decisions the OM admin team make in certain situations. We’ll be reporting on some of this information in due course, but I did find it extremely interesting that two of these other supposed personas are Canadian.

During our Serpo investigation, ex team member “Centrist” told me how he had explained to Kit how he could connect to an ISP in another state or even country and hide his actual location from email and webservers.

The example he used in his demonstration was Canada. Obviously, I can’t vouch for the authenticity of the story because I wasn’t there, but not long after that a certain member registered at OM from Canada and proceeded to become a right pain in the backside to seekers of truth everywhere. Oddly enough, both he and Kit share a very strong chinese connection…

The allegation of OM creating a particular hoax in order to drive up membership and forum activity is a serious one that we are currently actively investigating.

Loose Lips Sink Spaceships

originally posted by: celltypespecific
If not then this story has to be the biggest failure in investigative journalism

Fravor's story is interesting, but it would be a lot more compelling if he turned on his camera and had video to match his description. Like the pilot who shot the FLIR video some time later in a different location than Fravor's experience, I am also not convinced it's the same object Fravor saw. But the media was constantly playing that video alongside Fravor as if it was the object he was talking about, and there is insufficient evidence to draw that conclusion. Even if it is the same object, it shows none of the amazing maneuvers Fravor described.

I think Fravor said that's the entire video, but others have said there is more. Again, multiple witnesses involved do not agree with each other and may as well be calling each other liars, their stories differ so much. So even a good investigative journalist may find it difficult to work out which of the conflicting accounts is actually true, if any.

but I did find it extremely interesting that two of these other supposed personas are Canadian.