Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

Thanks paddy, what I meant was isn't there two panels though, Reid and co gave the green light to allocate the funding, but who gave oversight into how it would be spent specifically, line items etc, that's the point I was getting at unless I'm missing something here.

a reply to: Cravens

The feedback loop is another over intellectualized idea of Vallee the scientist with an overheated intellect.

Vallee does accept the obvious: the many clear experiences of UFOs are proof of the phenomenon but goes on to repeatedly contradict himself with all kinds of unscientific conjectures over and over he can't “ scientifically” prove.

He says, for instance, the UFOs can’t be on a survey of the Earth since there are too many of them for such a survey.

How the hell does he know that? Such a conclusion based on ignorance is unjustified and UNSCIENTIFIC!

a reply to: The GUT

Reread all four books regarding PK Dick.

It's interesting.

a reply to: ctj83

How so?

a reply to: Willtell

Agreed, I don’t believe he ‘knows’ either.

A great deal of appealing to authority (alleged authority) fallacy...

Quick aside: do you believe the US military have vehicles that manipulate time and local gravitational-effects, while Boeing still puts out aircraft that can’t make it to the stratosphere before suffering mechanical failure, resulting in massive loss of life?

What’s more probable: mankind is still limited by inertia, or the US military owns the intellectual property of the physics that allow for time distortion (and the engineering to make it happen) and they have kept it tightly-lipped since *insert your aerodynamics vintage*? Like, the human capital coming outta MIT or Georgia Tech or Rice University is somehow secretly convinced to mine the secrets of universe without getting commensurate pay, because it’s the government.

There is a certain interloper of this thread (and other threads) that is 100% certain that the US military has a monopoly on all the physics, and more importantly, the engineering on things that go FTL in the night.

**Mini-rant over**

Appreciate the reply.

a reply to: Cravens

Quick aside: do you believe the US military have vehicles that manipulate time and local gravitational-effects, while Boeing still puts out aircraft that can’t make it to the stratosphere before suffering mechanical failure, resulting in massive loss of life? 

I just have to comment on this, because it is a subject I have asked myself a lot.

My current thinking is that there has been some serious progress in this field, and that someone has access to technology that is very much exotic compared to our current thinking.

While this exotic technology may be useful for some very limited millitary or intelligence tasks, it is probably not mature enough, or safe enough, to make sense in the civillian sector.

You have to remember that because something can be done it does not necessarily mean anyone could do it, or that they would want to do it.

Just look at moon exploration.

We went to the moon half a century ago, so we know it can be done, but it is so expensive, complicated and dangerous that since Apollo, nobody has done it. Why isn't the moon full of private enterprise?

Let's take another example. Let's say Lockheed-Martin gets some funding from DOD to build a miniature nuclear reactor small enough to power a small flying machine.

Such a reactor could make perfect sense powering a submarine or a millitary space- or aircraft, but it would never been pushed to the civillian market. At least publicly, and LM would face some serious problems should they try, because the US (or anyone else) wouldn't want everyone and his crazy uncle to have access to a nuclear reactor.
Nor would it be very comfortable to have a million potentional nuclear disasters flying over major population centers in privately owned airplanes.

My point is that very advanced technologies can be developed and put to very limited use, without ever being releleased to the civillian sector. Either because there is no marked, because it is too expensive or because it is too dangerous.

We all know such technologies exist.

Stealth technology, for instance. Very limited usefulness for the civillian sector and closely guarded for millitary reasons.

What you really need to ask yourself is this: The US millitary has known for over half a century that humankind will expand into space.

Increasingly they have also realized for a long time that space will become the ultimate high ground in future conflicts. Do you really think that they, and their opposition, have been so negligent as to not do everything in their power to dominate this domain for over 50 years?

It was obvious after WW2 that unconventional r&d as done by the germans produced results not replicated in the civillian sector, because backing novel ideas is inherently high-risk, something civillian investors are pretty adverse to.

I think the US has demonstrated that after the war, they were ready to go after every conceivable idea that could produce the tiniest smidgeon of an advantage. If you don't believe me, look into the Remote Viewing program.

And yet we are to believe they would not go after technologies that would enable them to dominate space in a future they knew was coming?

I cannot believe this.

originally posted by: Cravens
a reply to: Willtell


There is a certain interloper of this thread (and other threads) that is 100% certain that the US military has a monopoly on all the physics, and more importantly, the engineering on things that go FTL in the night.

Ask them about their theories of how any solid object is displacing/repelling the 1 atom of Hydrogen per cm3 encountered in space?
At 90% of C this would be an almost unimaginable amount of Hydrogen to wade through.

Or what about the relativity issue.....what's the point of going fast if everyone else is going slow?

If you do a round trip to the edge of the galaxy and back it could be done at 100G's in 240 days with appropriate accelerations.
Meanwhile, 300000 years have elapsed at your point of origin.
What use is this ability unless you take the entire project staff with you and don't expect any welcoming party/recognisable civilisation on your return?

If these theories are to be believed - somehow- "they" are decoupling the stress energy tensor from the gravitational constant.

How many emergent technologies would need to be designed, integrated and fabricated- to turn what is likely a very energetic and unpredictable event- into a controllable, survivable craft?

Too many for there not to be at least some trickle down and the "I went FTL and all I got was this lousy fibre optics idea" doesn't make any sense.

a reply to: Jukiodone

While I do acknowledge your objections and reservations to some of these concepts, the millitaries of the world have been quick to explore novel ideas in the past if they somehow worked, even if they didn't understand why they worked.

If these theories are to be believed - somehow- "they" are decoupling the stress energy tensor from the gravitational constant.

If you, through some stupid idea that someone tinkering in a lab somewhere had one day, suddenly found some odd effects that produced a practical result that you didn't understand, that doesn't mean you just shelve the project if it have even the slightest chance of giving you an edge you want.

The DOD, for instance, have showed themselves to be quite ready do detonate a fusion bomb, using principles of physics they did not, at the time, fully understand. If you read up on Castle Bravo you can see that the DOD gave the go-ahead to set of an explosion that was 3 times more powerful than they thought. Because they had miscalculated and failed to take into effect matter that they thought would be inert, but wasn't.

Consider also that some scientists, most noteably Teller, were concerned that such a blast might set the Earths atmosphere on fire.

This is a "let's set it off and see if goes as planned" approach with something that could potentially wreck havoc with the entire planet. And they did it.

They had calculated so badly that almost all their measuring devices were obliterated in the blast, a whole region of nearby islands were subject to fallout and radioactive particles fell down even in the US and Europe, causing an international incident.

Luckily, for us, Teller was wrong and Bethe was right, and the atmosphere did not catch fire, but this clearly shows that the DOD is very ready to take risks, on behalf of the entire human race, if it thinks it can gain an advantage.

a reply to: beetee

I get your point but there is no comparable human endeavour in terms of difficulty- that's why the theory is so out there.

a reply to: 1ofthe9

PK Dick's Vallis is referenced as part of a conversation between Hal and Jacques, years before Dick wrote about it.

Vallee responded to a blogger noticing this, by issuing a statement though the publisher that it was an editing error.

However, Vallee almost admits in one of th Forbidden Science books that Ira left all his correspondence / networking tom him.

Vallee seems to suggest that he can see a connection between what happened to P K Dick in his childhood and what happened in Striebers.

Strieber, as we know, claims to have been sent to some sort of special program for the gifted, with a paranormal twist.

long story short, it's not really possible to reconcile all the claims and statements. I take the comments about Phillip Dick to be symptomatic of that problem.

a reply to: Jukiodone

I would submit that powered heavier than air flight, as achieved by the Wright brothers, was at the time a comparatively fundamental breakthrough. It was, despite nearly two hundred years of more or less successful attempts at finding a way to get man to fly, the breakthrough that opened up the floodgates that led to serious aviation.

And it was achieved despite the assurances of very influential scientists that it it was impossible.

One reason why nearly everyone in the United States was disinclined to swallow the reports about flying with a machine heavier than air was that important scientists had already explained in the public prints why the thing was impossible. When a man of the profound scientific wisdom of Simon Newcomb, for example, had demonstrated with unassailable logic why man couldn't fly, why should the public be fooled by silly stories about two obscure bicycle repairmen who hadn't even been to college? In an article in the Independent—October 22, 1903, less than two months before the Wrights flew—Professor Newcomb not only proved that trying to fly was nonsense, but went farther and showed that even if a man did fly, he wouldn't dare to stop. "Once he slackens his speed, down he begins to fall…Once he stops, he falls a dead mass. How shall he reach the ground without destroying his delicate machinery? I do not think that even the most imaginative inventor has yet even put on paper a demonstrative, successful way of meeting this difficulty."

Source

Simon Newcomb was not some lightweight, and yet what he said could not be done was done by two brothers who had not even finished College.

They did it by trial and error, by using practical experiments and advances done in other engineering fields, like the combustion engine, and without a full understanding of how lift in a heavier than air aircraft is achieved.

My point with all of this is mainly to say that breakthrough innovation is not always the result of the underlying theoretical framework being fully understood. It is often achieved by practical experimentation and a willingness to try things that has not been tried before, to see what will happen. This has been done by humans for ages, but the US government (through DARPA) really created a stage where almost everything could be tried, and the funding provided to put bread on the table for the ones doing the trying. Other governments have also copied this approach to some extent.

So one reason I am willing to carefully look at seemingly "crazy" claims coming out of this milieu, even if it is claimed that such things "cannot be done" by serious scientists, is historical examples such as the one above.

Look what NASA managed to do with the Apollo Program once the decision was made that we would go to the Moon, and this only half a century after the Wright brothers flew a powered heavier than air machine for the first time.

I will not derail the thread further, but only submit that if we look at history, innovation is not always preceded by published scientific theories being there before the breakthrough, or if such theories are there, they may not be widely known or accepted.

The Wright brothers proved that humans could fly, and started the civilian and military aviation industry, and proved that Simon Newcomb, for all his academic prestige was wrong.

And they were just two brothers in a field with a home made wind tunnel and a passion. Imagine what you can do with thousands of such individuals allowed to tinker away (some times in secret) without being derided and laughed at, but rather funded.

The Chinese are also busy tinkering away.

So it looks like Zondo is apparently due to speak at the Scientific Conference on Anomalous Aerospace Phenomena (AAP) in a couple of days.

"Keynote - Mr. Luis Elizondo - To The Stars Academy Board Member, Former Program Manager (AATIP), Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, Pentagon - "AATIP - Looking Back and Forward"

Other speakers are covering;
* Dr. Travis Taylor, Department of Defense - "A Scientific Approach to Analyzing and Preparing for an Alien Invasion"

* Mr. Philippe Ailleris, Project Controller, European Space Agency, SCU - "Detection and Characterization of Anomalous Aerial Objects Using Satellite Data Imagery"

* Mr. Morgan Beall, BS Earth Sciences, SCU - "2013 Aguadilla Puerto Rico Case Overview"

* Mr. Richard Hoffman, BA Organizational Communications, SCU - "2013 Aguadilla Puerto Rico Case Technical Analysis"

* Mr. Robert Powell, BS, Chemistry, SCU - "2004 USS Nimitz Case Report"

* Mr. Peter Reali, BS and MA, Electrical Engineering, SCU - "A Kinematic Analysis of the 2004 USS Nimitz encounters with AAV [Aerial Anomalous Phenomenon]"

* Dr. Kevin Knuth, Department of Physics, University at Albany, Albany NY, USA - "Constraints on Societies Engaged in Relativistic Interstellar Travel"

* Dr. Conley Powell, Senior Engineer/Scientist at 4M Research - "A Generalized Optimization Analysis for Interstellar Propulsion Systems”


Full list of other speakers;
/yxz5sl36

a reply to: pigsy2400

Who is this Travis Taylor dude?

a reply to: 1ofthe9

According to his LinkedIn;
www.linkedin.com...

Travis S. Taylor (“Doc” Taylor to his friends) has earned his soubriquet the hard way: He has a doctorate in Optical Science and Engineering, a doctorate in Aerospace Systems Engineering, a master’s degree in Physics, and a master’s degree in Aerospace Engineering, all from the University of Alabama in Huntsville. Added to this is a master’s degree in Astronomy from the University of Western Sydney (Australia) and a bachelor’s degree in Electrical Engineering from Auburn University (Alabama). Dr. Taylor has worked on various programs for the Department of Defense and NASA for the past two decades. He is currently working on several advanced propulsion concepts, very large space telescopes, space-based beamed energy systems, next generation space launch concepts, He is a licensed Professional Engineer in Alabama.

In his copious spare time, Doc Travis is also a black belt martial artist, a private pilot, a SCUBA diver, and races mountain bikes. He has also competed in triathlons, is a marathon runner, a CrossFitter, and has been the lead singer and rhythm guitarist of several hard rock bands. He has written nineteen science fiction novels, two textbooks (including this one), and over a dozen technical papers. Dr. Taylor has appeared and starred in several television programs including the History Channel’s The Universe and Life After People, National Geographic Channel’s hit shows Rocket City Rednecks and When Aliens Attack, and The Weather Channel’s 3 Scientists Walk Into a Bar. He currently lives with his wife and two children in north Alabama just outside of Huntsville in view of the Saturn V rocket that is erected at the U.S. Space and Rocket Center.

For Full Bios on the rest;
www.explorescu.org...

a reply to: 1ofthe9

Dr. Taylor, I presume.

Wikipedia

Preview of Vallee's Forbidden Science, Vol. 4


Try this instead: tinyurl.com...

a reply to: Cravens

No, I don’t think the US military knows much of anything beyond the nuclear technology they stumbled across and can thank the Nazis for their antisemitism that brought all those Jewish scientists to the US.

I BELIEVE PART OF THE DISINFORMATION PLAN IS TO HYPE ALL THIS WARP DRIVE PROPULSION MYTHOLOGY AND THEREBY CAST A POWERFUL LIGHT ON THE US MILITARY AND INTEL COMPLEX THEY DON’T DESERVE.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: 1ofthe9

According to his LinkedIn;
www.linkedin.com...

Travis S. Taylor (“Doc” Taylor to his friends) has earned his soubriquet the hard way: He has a doctorate in Optical Science and Engineering, a doctorate in Aerospace Systems Engineering, a master’s degree in Physics, and a master’s degree in Aerospace Engineering, all from the University of Alabama in Huntsville. Added to this is a master’s degree in Astronomy from the University of Western Sydney (Australia) and a bachelor’s degree in Electrical Engineering from Auburn University (Alabama). Dr. Taylor has worked on various programs for the Department of Defense and NASA for the past two decades. He is currently working on several advanced propulsion concepts, very large space telescopes, space-based beamed energy systems, next generation space launch concepts, He is a licensed Professional Engineer in Alabama.

In his copious spare time, Doc Travis is also a black belt martial artist, a private pilot, a SCUBA diver, and races mountain bikes. He has also competed in triathlons, is a marathon runner, a CrossFitter, and has been the lead singer and rhythm guitarist of several hard rock bands. He has written nineteen science fiction novels, two textbooks (including this one), and over a dozen technical papers. Dr. Taylor has appeared and starred in several television programs including the History Channel’s The Universe and Life After People, National Geographic Channel’s hit shows Rocket City Rednecks and When Aliens Attack, and The Weather Channel’s 3 Scientists Walk Into a Bar. He currently lives with his wife and two children in north Alabama just outside of Huntsville in view of the Saturn V rocket that is erected at the U.S. Space and Rocket Center.

For Full Bios on the rest;
www.explorescu.org...

Throw in a guitar and an 80s suit and he's Buckaroo Banzai 🙂

Let us never forget TDL’s hype about...Oh, the US military has been valiant in what they’ve done in dealing with the UFOs. We can’t tell you how yet but they are heroes.

Remember all that he spouted before the coming out of TTSA.

a reply to: justwokeup

Yeah, we have a lot of these cowboy Ufologists who are so wise and technologically forward. Like in the book American Cosmic where the author idolizes these supermen, she runs around with. All their secret and powerful technology.
Another group of masters of the universe who will like the masters of the universe who did the 2008 depression, likely create some monstrous advanced technology that may turn sheep into dogs.