Time for Unconditional Warfare, page 5

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 11:59 AM

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I guess we should bomb all of michigan and Timothy Mcvay's home and round up all of his friends and family and execute them one by one.

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Killak420]

blobby

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 12:36 PM

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if there is another attack on USA or any Country allied with USA then it would be Time for Unconditional Warfare untill then they will just plod along fairly nicely.

The Vagabond

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 12:56 PM

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Devilwasp, I was basically saying that truthfully its futile to try explaining things to those who take a politically slanted view of the issue and level accusations of anti-americanism and uber-leftism at anybody who dares criticize the war, and that all you can really do is "step on their toes" ie: debunk them, make them cry, etc.
Of course I then proceeded to offer an explanation, so at best that was a rhetorical statement and and worst it was pure hypocrisy on my part. I suppose if i were to be as brutually honest about myself as I try to be about others, I'd have to say that I was really just being a tad mean towards a couple of people who I think are making a less than spirited effort to deny ignorance.

Originally posted by Macgregor6590
And you will blame the liberals like you are doing now for all the problems that you uninformed hatred filled republicans have caused.

There are political differences over the issue, but I don't think its fair to throw the cause of the problem entirely at one side. How can you chastise somebody for blaming liberals then turn around and blame conservatives? As I've said several times, AMERICA, not a political party, has invaded Iraq. It couldn't possibly keep going without our consent implied by inaction. If you want a good idea of just how guilty both sides are in this issue, I suggest that you check out the thread Eastcoastkid and I have gotten started in forum called "want to ACTIVELY support our troops". There are plenty of people who say they are opposed to the war, but I think fewer than 10 have volunteered to so much as write a lousy letter against it and mail it to their congressman.
As long as this remains a politicized issue full of partisan hate, it goes nowhere. There is a big problem with the political establishment on the right which seeks to benefit by using unpatriotic labels for those in society who wont fall in line and follow orders for the war, but there is an equal problem with the political establishment on the left which would rather derive power from stirring up anger over the war rather than make a workable attempt to STOP the war. To make a long story short, I am OK with discussing the weaknesses and strengths of the approaches the various sides would propose, but I detest the partisan blame-game. This stuff is exactly why Congress is the opposite of Progress.

America’s problems have become what they are because we let idiots tell us how to live. It’s what we want. H.L. Mencken said,”As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." He was right we are here right now. We are at a time in history where the world is begging for a leader who has the answers and who will stand up and do what is right. But this leader is no where to be found, so we have children on message boards talking about nuking innocent civilians.

We are very fortunate to have children who call Bush names here to right the wrongs of the children who want to nuke innocent civilians. The children on both sides are a blight on the political landscape and utterly useless to a society which is looking for answers to some very deep questions about how we are going to defend ourselves, how we are going to interact with the world, and how we are going to govern ourselves.
I'm sure that for those who do nothing about the path this country is taking, it is comforting to get online and complain, and wear your dissent like a badge of honor so that you can pretend to be dignified and say "not in my name". The truth is though that none of this ridiculous partisan crap is changing anything. Every stupid ridiculous thing that the hawks do, you doves are equally responsible for because you have not stopped them, which is your duty as citizens of a democracy.

I sure hope you kids all grow up pretty soon. We can't have too many more of these "popularity contest" elections which ignore the issues and focus on who is a dum-bass or who is a vietnam coward. We need an election about the ISSUES and fast, or we may as well give our democracy a decent burial and put it behind us.

PtballDan

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:34 PM

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Here is my answer to several issues
- someone said that the war would get much worse for our troops if we started unconditional warfare
This is Not true bc the terrorists over there already employ those tactics

Someone talked about how how we should go after McVeh's family- did you all not read my messages???? I said we should go after the families or friends who are helping these terrorists- not just random innocent families.

And to the comment about how the Terrorists are just attacking military bases and those type of objectives.
-HAVE YOU not seen the film of SEPT 11th? also have you not seen the news clips on how mosques are being bombed by these terrorists and schools. Also what kind of terrorists are the terrorists in Palestine? They MOSTLY attack people at restaurants, clubs, and school buses.- They almost never attack military bases.

Bikereddie

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:41 PM

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The war would obviously get much worse if we used unconditional warfare tactics.

We would end up killing Innocent civilians in an all out attempt to get to terrorists / insurgents, call them what you will. That would make the whole effort worthless.

You cannot distinguish a terrorist from a civilian. Thats why the troops are having it hard.
The only way you know that they are insurgents, is when they open fire on you.

As for attacking military camps, they do that on a regular basis. Ask any soldier who has been there.

Edit for more text

[edit on 03/12/04 by Bikereddie]

Macgregor6590

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:49 PM

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Originally posted by Macgregor6590
And you will blame the liberals like you are doing now for all the problems that you uninformed hatred filled republicans have caused.

There are political differences over the issue, but I don't think its fair to throw the cause of the problem entirely at one side. How can you chastise somebody for blaming liberals then turn around and blame conservatives?

Actually I wasn't blaming all conservatives. Just the ones who are what i said. Also I'm not a liberal.

It couldn't possibly keep going without our consent implied by inaction.......... I'm sure that for those who do nothing about the path this country is taking, it is comforting to get online and complain, and wear your dissent like a badge of honor so that you can pretend to be dignified and say "not in my name".

You are right there thats the reason I am not sitting around complaining. I lead my schools political club(yes school) and speak out to others and try to show them what they can't see through all the
propaganda. I also have a lot of respect for what you and Eastcoastkid and you are doing.

As long as this remains a politicized issue full of partisan hate, it goes nowhere. There is a big problem with the political establishment on the right which seeks to benefit by using unpatriotic labels for those in society who wont fall in line and follow orders for the war, but there is an equal problem with the political establishment on the left which would rather derive power from stirring up anger over the war rather than make a workable attempt to STOP the war. To make a long story short, I am OK with discussing the weaknesses and strengths of the approaches the various sides would propose, but I detest the partisan blame-game. This stuff is exactly why Congress is the opposite of Progress.

I couldnt agree more thats why im a centrist. You should read some of my letters I have written.

by Macgregor6590: America’s problems have become what they are because we let idiots tell us how to live. It’s what we want. H.L. Mencken said,”As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." He was right we are here right now. We are at a time in history where the world is begging for a leader who has the answers and who will stand up and do what is right. But this leader is no where to be found, so we have children on message boards talking about nuking innocent civilians.

We are very fortunate to have children who call Bush names here to right the wrongs of the children who want to nuke innocent civilians. The children on both sides are a blight on the political landscape and utterly useless to a society which is looking for answers to some very deep questions about how we are going to defend ourselves, how we are going to interact with the world, and how we are going to govern ourselves.

Well Im glad to here you say that childrens opinions are useless and dont matter(including mine) because thats how the government feels about yours. You dont believe children can come up with answers to todays questions? I think we could come up with better ideas than something like the patriot act and the Posse Commitus Act. Isnt there a saying that nothing will ever get done until the generation in front of us is gone?

I'm sure that for those who do nothing about the path this country is taking, it is comforting to get online and complain, and wear your dissent like a badge of honor so that you can pretend to be dignified and say "not in my name". The truth is though that none of this ridiculous partisan crap is changing anything. Every stupid ridiculous thing that the hawks do, you doves are equally responsible for because you have not stopped them, which is your duty as citizens of a democracy.

Funny I think you were talking directly to me and its funny you dont know me or what I do for my country.

I sure hope you kids all grow up pretty soon. We can't have too many more of these "popularity contest" elections which ignore the issues and focus on who is a dum-bass or who is a vietnam coward. We need an election about the ISSUES and fast, or we may as well give our democracy a decent burial and put it behind us.

I think i was saying this when I talked about how the world was looking for a leader who had the answers but that we couldnt find him because we were looking in the wrong places.

devilwasp

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by PtballDan
Here is my answer to several issues
- someone said that the war would get much worse for our troops if we started unconditional warfare
This is Not true bc the terrorists over there already employ those tactics

No, we would just lose world opinion AND most our two countries support, same with the troops.
Its not easy to pull a trigger, I have no idea how much harder it would be with a child....

Someone talked about how how we should go after McVeh's family- did you all not read my messages???? I said we should go after the families or friends who are helping these terrorists- not just random innocent families.

So all the famlies support it?
Would you hand your family members if they commited a crime?

And to the comment about how the Terrorists are just attacking military bases and those type of objectives.
-HAVE YOU not seen the film of SEPT 11th?

Let me ask you , did

Fly a plane into the twin towers?
NO, the twin towers was a horrible and inhumane act of cowardnece, but we should not lower ourselves to thier level.
Would the families of Gordon M. Aamoth Jr. want us to go and commit acts on that scale?
NO, we must uphold the honour of our nations and the honour of the people like Gordon M. Aamoth Jr or Steve Mercado or Igor Zukelman who died doing their jobs.

also have you not seen the news clips on how mosques are being bombed by these terrorists and schools.

Does this mean we should lower ourselves to their level?
Do you think we should fire a J-Damm laser guided bomb at the school where a terrorists son goes to?
We could get the bomb to land within an inch of his head...

Also what kind of terrorists are the terrorists in Palestine? They MOSTLY attack people at restaurants, clubs, and school buses.- They almost never attack military bases.

Heres the part where I try and explain the terrorists tactics...
Does attacking a military base get you news coverage?
No cause the military can cover it up or play with it all they want.
Does bombing a high street get publicity?
Yes, ever wonder why they do this?
Why did america pull down saddams statue instead of letting the iraqi people do it?
Because it sent out a message.
Thats thier war, its not only a conventional one. Its a physcological one to.

PtballDan

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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I know they attack military bases regularily but they ALSO attack civilian targets.

To clarify Unconditional Warfare- (my version) It would be to kill or eliminate (put in prison) anyone Associtaed, or who took part in, helping the "insurgents" or terrorists. The Unconditional Warfare would be like a statement that says "IF you have any part with these terrorist YOU WILL REGRET IT" Its what we are doing out there but taking it a step further by taking out ALL of the support for the terrorists. Plus the people that would be "innocent" are not innocent- they would be the assistant to the Terrorist and therefore they are indirectly shooting at Coalition soldiers.

nightbreid

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:56 PM
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Yes, it is time for unconditional warfare. But not brute force. The U.S. has to get smart. The infiltration of American hit squads made up of Muslim proxies and mercenaries into the shadowy world of terrorism would be a good place to start. These mercs wouldn't have to actually go into deep cover(embed into a terrorist cell), but gather enough info on who to target. Our "cells" would rotate with other groups so as not to be ID'd. Mossad would be a good model to follow. Car bombs and IED's would be used, of course, to wreak havoc on the combined psyche of all the different insurgent networks(the faster we get them fighting each other, the faster they will weaken).
Fight fire with fire is an age old axiom whose time has come in Iraq.

PtballDan

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 06:00 PM
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Does this mean we should lower ourselves to their level?
Do you think we should fire a J-Damm laser guided bomb at the school where a terrorists son goes to?
We could get the bomb to land within an inch of his head...

I never said that we would stoop to their level, i was just saying that we are just taking out the Support for the terrorists. And we are NOT blowing up schools and churches. We should simply SHOW the terrorists that they cant hide behind the skirts of thier women, and that the women that they hide behind are held responsible for their involvement- no matter what the cirumstance.

[edit on 1-3-2005 by PtballDan]

devilwasp

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 06:07 PM
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I never said that we would stoop to their level,

YES YOU WHERE!

i was just saying that we are just taking out the Support for the terrorists.

Then you are takeing out not only those people but the people around them also createing MORE terrorists and etc etc.

And we are NOT blowing up schools and churches. We should simply SHOW the terrorists that they cant hide behind the skirts of thier women,

You have blown up churches and buildings your saying "unconditional" that means no rules!
So bombing churches, OK!
Bombing schools, OK!
Shooting kids, OK!
Napalming towns, ok!

and that the women that they hide behind are held responsible for their involvement- no matter what the cirumstance.
[edit on 1-3-2005 by PtballDan]

So you do relise that women are second class citizens there?
You think we should take out the terrorists by ANY means?
Do you relise killing those who they are hideing behind are inocent?

Trent

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by nightbreid
Yes, it is time for unconditional warfare. But not brute force. The U.S. has to get smart. The infiltration of American hit squads made up of Muslim proxies and mercenaries into the shadowy world of terrorism would be a good place to start. These mercs wouldn't have to actually go into deep cover(embed into a terrorist cell), but gather enough info on who to target. Our "cells" would rotate with other groups so as not to be ID'd. Mossad would be a good model to follow. Car bombs and IED's would be used, of course, to wreak havoc on the combined psyche of all the different insurgent networks(the faster we get them fighting each other, the faster they will weaken).
Fight fire with fire is an age old axiom whose time has come in Iraq.

Hmm... I'm not entirely sold on the Israeli model of fighting terror because the violence has continued despite their tactics. Maybe looking at the British model for fighting terror would be a better idea because the IRA hardly ever blow up anything anymore.

devilwasp

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Trent
. Maybe looking at the British model for fighting terror would be a better idea because the IRA hardly ever blow up anything anymore.

That was ....diffrent...
Also the IRA has lost a lot of support and is now pretty much a underpowered force..

Bikereddie

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 06:31 PM
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[

Hmm... I'm not entirely sold on the Israeli model of fighting terror because the violence has continued despite their tactics. Maybe looking at the British model for fighting terror would be a better idea because the IRA hardly ever blow up anything anymore.

I think you might find that quiet a few British camps in Northern Ireland still to this day come under threat from terrorists. Including bombs and shootings.
We just dont get to know about them because the government wants us to believe its all going ok.

Trent

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 06:35 PM
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Ah ok I know nothing about the IRA besides the fact that they are terrorists. Has any country effectively stopped a determinded terrorist organisation then? If so what tactics did they use.

Bikereddie

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Trent
Ah ok I know nothing about the IRA besides the fact that they are terrorists. Has any country effectively stopped a determinded terrorist organisation then? If so what tactics did they use.

To my knowledge, no country has ever stopped terrorism. How can they?
They operate under a web of deciet and secrecy.
Its only when they become obvious IE shoot at you, then you can take them out and wait for the next one to show him/her self.

Trent

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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Well one way i can think of is make them seem like the bad guys to the group they get their recruitment from. If they have no fresh members joining their group would cease to exist. Not sure how you could do this though...

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Trent]

devilwasp

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by Trent
Ah ok I know nothing about the IRA besides the fact that they are terrorists.

The IRA itself isnt a terrorist orginisation, its the PIRA.
PIRA can be a terror group if you dont support them.
They really want NI to be part of ireland.

Has any country effectively stopped a determinded terrorist organisation then? If so what tactics did they use.

No country has ever stopped terrorist groups, take the KKK, not stopped they still exist.
Take nazi's they still exist.
You can onnly contain it.

Trent

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 07:08 PM
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Oh i know you aren't going to stop all terrorism anymore than you are going to stop other random acts of violence like murder. However diminishing an organization to the point where it is no longer a huge threat and almost irrelevant would be what i would call a victory.

Bikereddie

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Trent
Oh i know you aren't going to stop all terrorism anymore than you are going to stop other random acts of violence like murder. However diminishing an organization to the point where it is no longer a huge threat and almost irrelevant would be what i would call a victory.

Take the insurgents in Iraq right now.
You kill one and somebody else takes thier weapon off the floor and takes his place. There will always be someone to fill a gap.

Brain washing plays a big factor in terrorism too, along with religion. A suicide bomber is told that he will have great respect from his maker etc etc if he blows himself up in the name of god.

edit for typos

[edit on 03/12/04 by Bikereddie]