Time for Unconditional Warfare

To the creater of this post: Don't worry, that time is coming. Except it won't be 'terrorists' that we're bombing.

In my opinion, you are a fool. While the terrorism situation is a complex one, it's people like you, whom in power, set the course for world war.

Originally posted by PtballDan
I find though that most of the AMerican Soldiers from ww2 (i know i go back to this alot) grew up without horrid memories or mental destruction.

Really? did you conduct some kind of multi nation interview with these vets?
So all of our vets that came back from ww2 returned with memories of seeing the eiffel tower and the visiting the coffee shops, flowers candy...

gevenva convention?
I love you leftards, you quote something you know absolutly nothing about. Go learn the rules of the Geneva Convention. Then speak.

Thank you for your opinon Gray. lol and its the people like you who sit around on their lazy butts and calmly try to do peace and crap like that and the next thing ya know- the Jihads are bombin ur suburb.

- and the part about American GI's after the war- i was telling someones dad that a soldier has to do what a soldier has to do and if that means killing a kid with a gun- so be it.

Originally posted by PtballDan
and the part about American GI's after the war- i was telling someones dad that a soldier has to do what a soldier has to do and if that means killing a kid with a gun- so be it.

Agreed, I need more oil for my SUV! Your kids blood will do just fine!!!

And you must also understand, a "Jihad" is not a person, its an act. (think crusade)

[edit on 28-2-2005 by Infamous Zordak9]

[edit on 28-2-2005 by Infamous Zordak9]

Originally posted by PtballDan
- Let's see maybe the fact that we gave them a month to get out of there before we said we would start shelling their town would be a good restraint.

Also its not like we napalmed the city or firebombed it (like we did to 250,000 German civilians in ww2) We went street to street fighting like "gentlemen", we didnt crash through their houses with our tanks etc.
And you know what?? these people brought it upon themselves- they harbored the terrorists there for several months before we can after them- maybe if they had a brain and a sense of survival- they wouldnt have allowed the terrorists to fester there for so long.

And if someone came to your town and told you that you had one month to leave before they started shelling, you'd be fine with that? I wouldn't. I'd show the antagonists my longest finger and get the shotty out from under the bed.

We did more than napalm the city, if we had napalmed it, it would still be standing for the most part intact. Fallujah was a city famous for its mosques and architecture in general, and we went in with HE and DU and tore the place to shreds. We did crash through their houses, and their places of worship, and their markets and their shops. You obviously haven't seen enough footage from the city. I suggest you educate yourself before running your mouth.

They do have a brain, and a sense of survival. The difference between you and them, is they also have faith and courage, and pride (their downfall incidentally). How much courage does it take to fill your shoes? You are a small child snickering at the sacrifice of men, and that is insufferable. I hope you get drafted so you can drink your fill. You might be surprised to know this, but when a bullet hits you in real life, it doesn't just leave a colored smear and a little stinging welt.

On a final note, with your attitude, you could be president.

Originally posted by Frith
Why does a thread condoning genocide against Muslims get spawned here every day and why do they not get locked?

Aye, call some one "ignorant" though and you'll get a warn.

I'd like to welcome you, Ptbulldan. ATS needs more unintelligent people like yourself.

[edit on 1-3-2005 by cargo]

Originally posted by PtballDan
People of American and the United States Military: It is now time to employ Full out warfare tactics, it is time we use what we used in ww2.

Your problem is exactly that you are thinking in the outdated terms of WWII. The shorter range and lower firepower of weapons (particularly aircraft, missiles, etc.) in WWII presented limitations on the speed at which an army could overwhelm the enemy in those days. This meant that production of war materiel during hostilies was important. Destroying industrial infrastructure in urban areas was a critical for the attrition component of strategy at that time.

The role of attrition has decreased in modern times. The benefits to logistics from modern airlift capability, the increased American capability for safe transport by sea due to naval air superiority, the range, firepower, and targeting ability of modern weapons allows an army to move much faster and do a much more effective job of destroying enemy capabilities. We can do all of this without randomly blowing the crap out of cities and making the big impressive show of devastation that characterized WWII. This does not mean that modern American warfighting is pulling any punches in comparrison to WWII.

There are problems with the conduct of the effort in Iraq, but it is extremely important to be specific as to the problem, it causes, and the sollution. If we fail to do this, we find ourselves being called trolls, warmongers, and quite possibly the losers of this war to boot. Bombing the holy crap out of Iraq is bad for us and everyone else.

Here is what we need to do to fight a "gloves off" war on terror:
Up American troop strength in occupied nations as much as necessary, even if it takes a draft. Put in enough troops to completely lock down all access to and movement within major cities and sweep the cities block by block doing searches in order to seize weapons, ID all citizens, etc. Going in with fewer troops has meant less force protection and less ability to find and capture insurgents. More troops (and I mean MANY MANY MANY more) means being able to find the people we're looking for with out just randomly killing people and hoping they are the badguys.
Do whatever it takes to get people to help us. If there's anything that even most hawks will agree with me on its that most of the UN can be bought and sold like a cheap hooker. If we'd opened the bidding on contracts in Iraq to non-participant nations, they'd have eventually had to go in and protect their investments. By worrying too much about the profitable aspects of Iraq, we undermined the actual mission. I'm not saying its a rape war, I'm just saying that there is in fact money in it and that fact has interfered with smart conduct of the war.
Pour a very very large sum of money into the recruitment of domestic police and soldiers in occupied nations so that we can leave ASAP when we're done finding and killing the terrorists, and so that any terrorists who successfully "go to ground" can never reconstitute themselves in that nation.
arrange favorable trade deals between both the united states and the occupied nations and neighboring nations and the occupied nations. Whatever inconvenience and investment is necessary to make sure that terrorists can't thrive in that country is worth it. Two words: Marshall Plan. Nation building is a necessary endgame to war if you don't want it to happen again.

I'm sure there's more that could be said but you see where I'm going with this.

Originally posted by PtballDan
What i feel is that your own liberal weakness is coming forth and you cant face the fact that BUSH is a GOOD President and that we are not over there for oil but we are over there to give these IRAQI PEOPLE FREEDOM!

Is PtballDan, Neon Haze in disguise?

So come on PtballDan, if the Shia government asked the Americans to leave next week (oil fields and all) do you think your boys would oblige? They should right? Because you want to give the Iraqi's freedom, not take their oil?

Originally posted by Rasputin13
We do more to protect innocent civilians than ANY other country in the history of warfare.
[edit on 28-2-2005 by Rasputin13]

You try to overthrow legitimately elected governments that have national interests which threaten your nearest supply of oil (Venezuela).

Originally posted by PtballDan
HAHA- im not old enough yet.

With all due respect, here we have the root cause of all the illogical statements spouted by our PtballDan.

I believe the children are the future, teach them fascism and let them fight our wars,
Show them all the beauty of spilling others' insides,
Give them guns, make them despise,
The Is-la-mic en-e-mies,
That we've cre-a-ted,
To furr-ther ou-rr agenda,

We decided long ago,
The world's oil should be ours and ours only,
The American way of life you see,
Is unnegotiable, that's our decree,
No matter what you try to do,
You'll be our slaves, our pawns, our tools....

Beeee-cause the greeaa-test lie of all,
Is, that everyone is freeeeeeee,
The greatest lie of all,
Believe it or you'll be a deee-taineee...

[edit on 1-3-2005 by uknumpty]

Originally posted by PtballDan
What war boils down to is the elimination of the enemy without withholding anything, and i think that its about time the United States does that.

Who is the enemy? Identify to me this enemy and the signs by which he can be recognised. Are you referring to the bogeyman? Sauron? the Daleks? the Nazis? War isnt a glorious crusade to unfold before you in your comfortable home where the chaps in the white hats enjoy a boys own camping trip. If you want to experience total, unconditional warfare I suggest you go and read about Stalingrad or speak to one of the poor bastards who waded ashore at Omaha beach and see what they have to say about perpetuating total warfare. Get of your arse, pick up a rifle, and man a checkpoint with your comrades overseas and then break the news to them that you want things to become ten time worse. You will be fighting an enemy who does not support his own war effort thus leaving you without a strategic way of ending this war so you long for. As in Vietnam you would be fighting an enemy with local superiority and unstoppable lines of supply and communications.

They need to show these people that you can go shoot at Americans and then hide behind some Arab woman because they know we wont shoot. People of American and the United States Military: It is now time to employ Full out warfare tactics, it is time we use what we used in ww2. A full out war, bombing everything taht we needed to bomb to achieve our goal.

The targets you want to bomb will be in the countries of non-combatants. Bombing them will turn them against you. There are many countries with factions that support both the US and the 'Terrorists'. Those that support the US may have a change of heart when your total warfare destroys their homes and families because you see them as 'sheltering' the enemy.

This sounds harsh and OH NO YOU WILL BE KILLING CIVILIANS! its about time we put down this load of BS and frickin go kill anyone associated with them: if their families help, a bomb will come from our plane to decimate their house, if their friend helps them or doesnt tell US troops about them then he will be destroyed. IT is time that America looks past the worlds bickerings on warfare and enters a new stage of fighting.

And so the voices that once shouted with such fervour and arrogance in the Reichstag and Nuremburg rallies awaken again. And as before, despite your initial superiority your leaders delusions, paranoia and stupidity will lead you into as war which turns the world against you. You will turn against the good people of your country who wish to avoid such lunacy. The only good your efforts will achieve is to unite old foes in the crusade to destroy you. Fortunately the forces who march through the rubble of your cities will raise a banner of freedom upon the highest point and show mercy to the misguided citizens who remain. The unconditional wafare that they have fought would have been one of survival, not agression, and despite their beliefs whatever they may be it is always those who unite aainst the agressors and initiators of such tradgedy who will carry the day because of the basic respect that prevents them from initiating such horror.

But the dominoes don't seem to be falling that way, do they? Even with the causualties, there is still widespread support in America for the effort, and in places like Lebanon and Egypt people seem to b waking up to the possibility of enjoying the freedoms so easily sneered at here.

Said it before and I'll say it again, try living in one of these thugocracies before you see everything America does as evil.

Originally posted by Realist05
Said it before and I'll say it again, try living in one of these thugocracies before you see everything America does as evil.

Many millions died to defend Stalinist Russia against the German invaders. These 'thugocracies' as you call them seem quite timid when compared to the whimsical brutality of the Stalinist regime and yet they found no end of support in their waging of total warfare when threatened. I am only theorizing that the escalation of the current conflicts which involve the US, UK and my own Australia would cause us to face stiffening resistance and criticism which has all the potential of developing into a disastrous conflict. We are fortunate to live with the freedoms we have in our countries but enforcing our way of life is something that we should, living in such societies, see as being basically wrong. It is something that forms a fundamental part of the conditions that allow us to continiue to be so successful. If parties within these countries appeal to us for liberation, showing proof of their oppression, suffering and desire to embrace the democratic system then I fully support using our resources in their assistance whatever it takes. But until I see mass protest and petitions to the UN and our governments to intervene (like so many that have gone and are going ignored i.e. Rwanda, Congo, Sudan etc) being acted upon in good faith then I will continue to refuse to accept the current conflict as anything other than the profiteering that it so plainly is. We seem overly keen to pre-empt potential, over-hyped and fictitious threats when genuine calls for existance go unheard due to the lack of economic benefit from assisting such freedom loving people. Those same types of people we pride ourselves as being. Our brothers and sisters.

On page one they said don't feed the trolls. ptbulldan started this thread after he got warned in mine which took him down to 240 points, no he's at 1400 because you feed the troll...don't feed trolls, respond to real posts with real intelligence.

Originally posted by 00PS
On page one they said don't feed the trolls. ptbulldan started this thread after he got warned in mine which took him down to 240 points, no he's at 1400 because you feed the troll...don't feed trolls, respond to real posts with real intelligence.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't really sure what that meant.

Message recieved and understood, so to speak.

Originally posted by PtballDan
First of all i was talking to Aceofspade about the liberal thing. I know the British gave the middle East a headache after ww2 but it doesnt mean they have to blow each other up over it all the time with innocent civilians.

WE RIPPED THE PLACE APART IN THE COLONIAL WARS AND AFTER WW2.
You'd be a little bit Peeed off if that happened to you.
As you said before thats colateral damage they dont mean to kill inocent civilians at army bases otherwise they would aim for the center of town now wouldnt they??

Originally posted by Rasputin13
I love how these left wing, liberal hippies criticise everything our military does. We do more to protect innocent civilians than ANY other country in the history of warfare.

GRRR!
You ignorant little piece of---!

Why dont you come and tell Lance Corporal Stephen's family that....

How can anyone honestly bring up the Geneva Convention when our ENEMIES don't even abide by it? Give me a break. Let one of these terrorist animals blow up some of your family members and then lets hear what you think about the Geneva Convention.

So what if they dont obey, the fact is our soldiers obey it.
We...no sorry...our soldiers are there to fight and protect OUR way of liveing, last time I checked we didnt approve of genocide.

Anyway, the Geneva Convention relates to POW treatment. Blowing up buildings that contain a terrorist and a few "innocent" civilians who are allowing the terrorist to live amongst them has nothing to do with the Convention.

Actually the geneva conventions deal with every part of combat.

Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War , 12 August 1949.

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

It's sickening how some of you people do more to protect the rights of the terrorists than you do to protect the safety and security of your fellow countrymen.

The job of the government is to keep citizens safe, its already failed there by sendung the military into iraq.
We hope they get home but we dont approve of the war.

You spend more time ripping our government, our troops, and our Commander-In-Chief than you do criticizing terrorist and the dictatorial regimes that harbor and support them.

If you look we do hate war on both sides, its just the majority of threads on here dont talk about how they hate terrorists.
Also terrorists are people like you and I they must have a reason they fight , we welll atleast I look for that reason.

Where have your priorities gone people? War is an ugly thing. But its a means to an end.

So if I use your son or daughter as a hostage to get what I want then its fine?
Since you seem to think , "the end justifies the means".
What about the holacaust?
That was a "means to an end" for "purity". (I personally hate that BTW.)

You liberals who claim to love freedom and democracy so much should be supportive of this Administrations initiative to spread freedom and democracy to all corners of the globe.

Firstly you cant "spread" or give freedom, it must be taken.
secondly I can name quite a few military officers in the military or are ex military, one of the most famous is in the previos post of mine...

Hypocrites. If a Democrat was running this war on terror and doing all of the same things you wouldn't have a single complaint.

We have a complaint about any and everythign done wrong in war.
Dont make us out to be murders!

And let me make this clear to anyone who wants to respond to me... I won't read it.

Fine, be ignorant I shall not care.

I will not return to this thread because it honestly sickens my heart to see "Americans" criticizing our government's actions during a time of war. It pains me that our troops who are risking their lives day in and day out might have to actually hear some of this garbage and may be forced to second-guess what they're doing over there, when in fact what they're doing is more brave and more noble than anything any of you left-wing radicals will EVER accomplish in your feeble existences.

The job thier doing has to be watched, its the job of every citizen to critise and dicuss every decision the gov makes so that it is the RIGHT decision.
I frankly dont see YOU joining up, as on that note I am joining the services myself not in a front line hell just the RN and frankly your attitude disgusts me!

It's times like these when I'm about to blow a screw that I must remember the honorable Richard M. Nixon when he said "One can only be angry with those he respects." And then I remember that I don't respect hippies so what they say doesn't bother me one bit! I still won't return to this thread though! LOL
[edit on 28-2-2005 by Rasputin13]

One must remember this sites motto and creed, "deny ignorance" You my fellow "ally" must start to deny before it takes you over.


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Devilwasp, it's not nice to step on the toes of those who are obvioulsy trying very hard to enforce political dillusions on themselves.
If I hear one more windbag tell me how disgusting it is to criticize the government in time of war, hinting at or sometimes overtly referring to some glorious moral certainty and unbridled optimism that probably never existed as it is presented to us.

It's OK to be against war, it's not unpatriotic. One of the greatest Marine heroes in US history, Major General Smedley Butler, served this country one every battlefield one could name for over 30 years, but when it was all over he stood up and wrote a book called "War is a Racket" and referred to himself as "a high class muscle man for corporations" and "gangster for capitalism". So would you argue that a man twice decorated with the congressional medal of honor was an cowardly rhetoric mongering anti-american? Some of us haven't forgotten that we are EXPECTED to take a stand of our own on policy because we live in a democracy. When the citizens of a democracy bite their tongues and fall in line the result is either tyrany or anarchy, depending on whether or not their is a dictator waiting in the wings to excercise the power that silent citizens will not.

Now I hate to plug by own previous posts, but do you all mean to tell me that nobody even gave a second thought to the idea that "taking the gloves off" in this war actually mirrors the "liberal" idea more than the so-called "conservative" one?
Checka few posts back- we should have gone in with more troops, we should have worried about the mission more than the money, and big impressive displays of destruction do not equate to signs of victory. Now does that sound like it would be better endorsed by the people who brought us Shock and Awe with an under-sized force, or the people who've been trying to tell the pentagon for more than a year that they are doing this wrong!? (and before you start on me, i'm talking about moderate conservative Colin Powell, not about John Kerry). The moderates, who the far right brand as "liberals" and "leftards" have a better idea and there is no value in criticizing them for it.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Devilwasp, it's not nice to step on the toes of those who are obvioulsy trying very hard to enforce political dillusions on themselves.

Can you explain this a bit better, cant really tell what your trying to get across here...
Interesting post though.....

You say nuke them, bulldoze through there homes, kill civilians, bomb hospitals, what kind of people are you? You say that by doing this we will end the war quicker. Are you freaking crazy? This would more than likely cause WW3. We would breed a hate in everyone in the middle east, not just the ones who have been brainwashed and we would lose respect from our allies and the world will fear us because we will have become the tyrannical dictator of the world instead of the leader of happiness and prosperity and freedom. (Which is basically a joke now anyway.) And you will blame the liberals like you are doing now for all the problems that you uninformed hatred filled republicans have caused. Friedrich Nietzsche said that, "He who fights monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." We must remember that Terror is not a tactic used by the enemy, it is the enemy, and if we strike terror into the hearts of innocent civilians we have became what we are fighting against.

Quote: how can you honestly bring up the Geneva Convention when our enemies don’t even abide by it? Give me a break.
If we do not abide by own on rules what have we become? Its like the age old question Plato discussed, “why is it better to suffer wrong than to do wrong?”

America’s problems have become what they are because we let idiots tell us how to live. It’s what we want. H.L. Mencken said,”As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." He was right we are here right now. We are at a time in history where the world is begging for a leader who has the answers and who will stand up and do what is right. But this leader is no where to be found, so we have children on message boards talking about nuking innocent civilians.