Is science a reliable source for truth?

Sociologist Emile Durkheim once basically said that something is real if it's real in its consequences. So if a big crowd gets together and decides to burn you as a witch, it doesn't matter if magic doesn't really exist, or that you are definitely not a witch in any way. You're still burned to death.

originally posted by: kennyb72
a reply to: purplemer

Everything we personally experience is subjective until consensus is reached, then it becomes objective and a shared objective reality.

This is pretty much what quantum physics arrives at. Nothing is truly definite until it is observed.

Relativity teaches that different observers can disagree and both be right, so long as it is possible for a third observer to correspond their views via some kind of "transformation" or correlating formula. IE. If you observe a space ship to be moving near the speed of light, it looks like time has slowed down for the people on that ship. However, from the ship's perspective, it is YOU that are experiencing slow time. Not them.

Both observers disagree. And both are right, from their frame of reference.



Quantum physics goes a step further, and allows some traits of a system to remain truly undefined until they are observed.

Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment has a cat in a seal box, left to be randomly killed or not killed by a poison gas trap that will be triggered by a quantum event.

In that experiment, the state of the cat after the random trigger event, but prior to opening the box, is neither dead nor alive. (And the crazy thing is that experiment, insofar as it is possible, has always agreed with this.)

Your axiom that all reality is a subjective experience, is not a view supported by Hylozoism.


There is a permanent reality that exist in all dimensions, composed from ever finer states of matter.

For those who’s consciousness is awake in these realms, they will experience an objective reality, as do we all, when we pass from this world to the next.

Remaining focused on objective reality in other worlds, becomes a critical skill. Consciousness can create anything, it is instant magic, it can be witnessed by others, and becomes an objective shared experience. It is clear to others however that this is your illusion and that you can get lost in it. They are still grounded in their own objective shared realities, which are solid and real in the dimension they exist in.

There are immutable laws that govern the entirety of creation, those laws are fixed across all dimensions of space, time is really the only illusion. Those laws are the truth, and there is nothing subjective about them.

Hylozoizm, departs from Eastern mysticism in a fundamental way, by declaring that we are not experiencing an illusion but a fixed objective reality... How could it be otherwise when we can reach consensus on our experiences. Creating a shared illusion is theatre and cinema but we all know that it is Hollywood.

Hylozoism declares that matter is a continuum, and that seven states of matter exist within each dimension. Science currently can detect four within our own physical dimension.

Our consciousness will become objectively aware of other dimensions as we evolve and our ability to achieve objective reality in the ever finer states of matter, is a natural progression for humanity.

I am sorry If I come across overly zealous, I didn't invent this, it is ancient knowledge and I feel a responsibility to convey that as accurately as I can, after studying the texts.

Well, Hylozoism doesn't really agree with modern physics, then.

I mean it does insofar as there are immutable laws of physics. But not to where it would be possible to observe all aspects of reality from a single frame of reference.

Also in physics, Time is not exactly an illusion. It's just a dimension, like height, width, or depth. Right, Left, Forward, Backward, Up, Down, Future, Past. All parts of a 4 dimensional object called "event".

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

I mean it does insofar as there are immutable laws of physics. But not to where it would be possible to observe all aspects of reality from a single frame of reference.

Welcome to omniscience, one day

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

There are immutable laws that govern the entirety of creation, those laws are fixed across all dimensions of space, time is really the only illusion. Those laws are the truth, and there is nothing subjective about them.

The laws I am referring to are spiritual laws, the laws of physics are a consequence of the conditions of our physical cosmos. Those conditions change for each dimension.

QM explains things at a sub atomic level. Science has already misrepresented the atom, because we know that there are much smaller particles. A physical atom is composed of billions of monads attracted from 49 different dimensions.

Original science explains that the monad is the smallest indestructible expression of matter and if you then swap the monad for strings, you can see that science is actually onto it. Entanglement is understandable when you realise that every monad is conscious and everything is ONE.

a reply to: kennyb72

"Humans are a species specifically designed to be the apex of creation on Earth."

And on that note, I'm afraid the computer says no, LoL

We are far from perfect, our bodies and minds are frail compared to other animals abilities.

The only thing we do well is hunt in a pack and adapt and overcome.

If that's what we were ""designed"" to do then we are nothing more than a macro virus really.

"To suggest that we arrived at this point by random mutation is laughable and defies all logic."

How so, you do understand what logic is?

How is it beyond reasoning, deduction, or argument?

a reply to: andy06shake

How so, you do understand what logic is?

How is it beyond reasoning, deduction, or argument?

You seem to revere logic, logic gives you choices, if you make an incorrect choice your logic fails.

Your choices are furnished by your understanding.

a reply to: kennyb72

Logic allows you to communicate in the manner you are now doing so.

Logic gives you an outcome down to a very specific set of rules, there is no choice where logic is concerned only definitive outcome.

Logic is a very Boolean affair in its entirety.

a reply to: andy06shake

there is no choice where logic is concerned only definitive outcome.

Logic is a process, much like a computer program .. rubbish in .. rubbish out.

Yes very Boolean lol .. a priori should be revised.

a reply to: kennyb72

"Logic is a process, much like a computer program .. rubbish in .. rubbish out."

That's garbage in garbage out but nevermind.

Then learn to code and do so eloquently and efficiently, you reap what you sow you see.

My days in that area are well behind me and confined to the realms of Pascal. LoL

Logically without a computer, you would not be saying much, just a thought.

originally posted by: kennyb72
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

There are immutable laws that govern the entirety of creation, those laws are fixed across all dimensions of space, time is really the only illusion. Those laws are the truth, and there is nothing subjective about them.

The laws I am referring to are spiritual laws, the laws of physics are a consequence of the conditions of our physical cosmos. Those conditions change for each dimension.

QM explains things at a sub atomic level. Science has already misrepresented the atom, because we know that there are much smaller particles. A physical atom is composed of billions of monads attracted from 49 different dimensions.

Original science explains that the monad is the smallest indestructible expression of matter and if you then swap the monad for strings, you can see that science is actually onto it. Entanglement is understandable when you realise that every monad is conscious and everything is ONE.

I don't think Monads are really part of established science. Neither is string theory, for that matter.


Because energy and matter are interchangeable ( E = MC^2 ), the smallest unit of energy is effectively the smallest "particle" also.

And smallest measurable amount of anything is the plank unit of that thing. Because below that point it is impossible to measure anything. (By which I mean it is impossible in principle, not just practically impossible.)

factmyth.com...

The reason is because at such a small level, reality isn't really definite. Not just that you can't measure it. There is nothing to measure. It's a kind of result of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. Because a photon with long wavelength can measure speed well, but location poorly. While a photon with short wavelength can measure location well, but speed poorly, Heisenberg worked out that no matter how well you balance the two, you always have to give up some precision in one or the other parameter.

en.wikipedia.org...


So you can't perfectly know both a quantum object's location and its speed. (Which means you can't make a perfect copy of something like a human brain, thereby assuring each person is and always will be unique.)



.... And I do have to admit you are right in saying there is a point where physics does kind of begin to mesh into spirituality....

a reply to: andy06shake

Garbage in the US yes, it's Rubbish most other places lol,

You would understand OOP, that is a great model for the hierarchy of life.

Technically I'm not saying anything, I am impatient for telepathy to become normal. You won't need technology at all when we become what we are destined to be.

a reply to: kennyb72

Garbage in the UK, Americanism or otherwise. GIGO is a universal computer science concept.

LIfe is what we make it, but essentially you play the cards you are dealt.

So what are we destined to be?

And where would we be without technology?

No tools, no understanding, no progress, nor art, science or history.

Just the way God intended eh?

Personally, i like Apples. LoL

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

.... And I do have to admit you are right in saying there is a point where physics does kind of begin to mesh into spirituality....

There are a number of revelations that have made the news in the past, regarding QM and Scientifically established certainties which have added to our pool of knowledge, Yet many official scientific positions have not changed with regards to 'what we know'.

There are a good many scientists who now can't deny, that we are experiencing only the tip our our actual reality.

a reply to: andy06shake

Hey! I like apple too ..

So what are we destined to be?

It's a very very long story but the very short answer Is .. GOD
Slightly more information is we get to be an array of amazing beings and experience an eternity exploring our cosmos.

And where would we be without technology?

I really love technology .. what's your problem lol .. it's the perfect tool to help us achieve our collective goal.

Apologies, I had to edit my response to you 4 posts up, as I made a typo and it makes a difference to your understanding

a reply to: kennyb72

"It's a very very long story but the very short answer Is .. GOD"

Well, we are around 10-50 years away from building/creating/spawning our own.

That's if neuroscience and artificial intelligence keep the pace that they are going.

Hopefully, it lets us join the party, rather than deems us irrelevant and/or obsolete.

Either way, we will have served our purpose.

"I really love technology .. what's your problem lol"

It's a wonderful and very dangerous thing i suppose.

No problem buddy, hangover just beginning to kick in.

Sleep time soon me thinks.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Once Constantine had his epiphany "sol Invictus" moment he settled the science ( At the point of the Sword ) on Christianity becoming the New World Order faith - allowed Old Rome to rule in disguise - and opened the gates of hell where its OK to have crusades or holy inquisitions.


The loot and land stolen was in the true Gods best interests

Science relies on personal experience, it’s by the numbers.

or one can say....

"Religion and belief relies on personal experience, it’s by the numbers."

a reply to: andy06shake

That's if neuroscience and artificial intelligence keep the pace that they are going.

Not gonna happen, I am happy to inform you. Man does not create life. It's simply beyond us.

Ai is computer instruction self written, It can never possess spirit .. Unless of course there is some arrangement with Satan. I wouldn't put that past our pseudo masters.

If the intelligence that guides affairs on our planet ever decided that a robotic form was more durable and self sustaining than a biological human form, it is feasible that a decision could be made to include that form, as a recipient for a human soul.

Good luck improving on it though.

a reply to: kennyb72

I've got two kids that might disagree there. LoL

We don't even understand what constitutes the entirety of life on our own planet nevermind the rest of the universe if truth be told.

AI is going to happen whether or not we want it to or otherwise, it already is happening in a rather more simplistic manner.

Whats Satan got to do with AI?

As to the masters well those are simply the bankers and corporations, nothing ""pseudo"" about those bastards I'm afraid, those are very real, and very in control.

a reply to: kennyb72

"Ai is computer instruction self written, It can never possess spirit"

Whats RNA/DNA if not exactly that?

Can we possess a spirit?

Are we more than the sum of our parts?

You see for all intents and purpose that remains to be seen or proven.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Do you understand that mr cleese is making fun of people like you?

Did you miss the gene that makes fun of people like you - you should watch it again.