Is science a reliable source for truth?

originally posted by: kennyb72
Basic reading comprehension is invaluable when attempting to understand anything, in other words when you have all of the information, then you can decide if any of your information contradicts itself.

You are absolutely right.

I will never be correct until I agree with you.
Unfortunately as I said before, my evolution limits me from understanding further so my hands are tied.

Good luck though.
It's a shame I wasn't gifted with the grandeur your beliefs require.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Blarneystoner

Logic is the foundation of reasoning. Reasoning is the process by which we judge and arrive at the truth. Logic is how we derive Truth

The first word split the world in two. Unthink about that for a minute..

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: bogdan9310

I will make it simple. Most wont get this. Science is a poison chalice. It was given to us. Its a religion without a soul. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Sooo deep... but untrue woo woo...

Science is a tool... nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe we should go back to the days of burning witches.

originally posted by: purplemer

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: circuitsports
What direction do you travel when traversing the Panama canal from the Atlantic to the Pacific?

Thats a simple question to answer if you consider the model to be simple and thats part the problem of science. It is always based on a simplified model.


Assumptions made here are how are you travelling.. (what is your method of movement) How fast are you travelling. It depends on the route taken. It depends on who is navigating. I could go on but you get the idea.

If you want a simple answer you need a simple model.

The Truth is singular but the perspectives from which it is perceived are infinite.

Direction is relative to other objects.

In space there is no North, South East or West.

The earth travels around the sun at 67,000 mph. The Solar System travels around the center of the galaxy 514,000 mph. It's estimated that the Milky Way galaxy and the "local group" are travelling through space at a speed of 1.34 million miles per hour.

Are you sure? Which direction are you travelling again? Relative to what?

Deny ignorance.... ironic.

Socrates - "All I know is that I know nothing"

Lao-Tzu - “Not-knowing is true knowledge. Presuming to know is a disease. First realize that you are sick; then you can move toward health.”

Plato - “Knowledge is nothing other than perception”

Yes, if guided in the right direction.

Johannes Kepler said it best, “thinking God’s thoughts after Him. I was merely thinking God’s thoughts after Him. Since we astronomers are priests of the highest God in regard to the book of nature, it benefits us to be thoughtful, not of the glory of our minds, but rather, above all else, of the glory of God.”

In reality many of today’s modern technologies were developed by Christians, and many forms of science come from early Islam. The reason a few theocrats have been weary of science is because their faith was weak. True science should discover the laws of the natural world, which God created.

Some of the science Christians and other people of faith should be interested in include: nanotech, time dilation effects, faster than light travel, wormhole based travel and communications, and high power telescopes. If you can quickly send a telescope thousands of light-years away, and quickly reading a signal for it, you can watch the life of Christ or even the creation of the Earth. With nanotech you can take healing and education to the next level.

Unfortunately as I said before, my evolution limits me from understanding further so my hands are tied.

Good luck though.
It's a shame I wasn't gifted with the grandeur your beliefs require.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Anything that is worth anything in this life requires effort to acquire or master.

Do you always 'give up' so easy when it comes to comprehension? Why do you sound like an offended child? Is it because you scanned a document that is intensely deep and difficult to read and arrived at the decision to deride it, rather than attempt to understand it.

Maybe you are correct about your own evolution, but I very much doubt it. You have no idea what a long and difficult journey we have all taken to arrive at being human.

You will get it eventually, I promise you, everyone does. It's not as if any of us are outside of the process.

Get ready! It's coming, at least try to be prepared.

Many people will go to their death beds imagining annihilation. The good news or the bad news, depending on how you have conducted yourself, is that your consciousness simply never dies.

You are absolutely right.
I will never be correct until I agree with you.

At least making some progress, Keep up the good work

a reply to: Blarneystoner

Science is a tool... nothing more, nothing less.

This is correct, for some reason, some people seem to think that science is God. It's not science that is at fault, it is uneducated people who pose as experts. They are convincing young minds, that our existence is some kind of accident.

Morons like Richard Dawkins for instance, highly educated in nothing of any real consequence and leading humanity down a blind alley. There are too many people like Dawkins and his supporters, all atheists together.

The blind leading the blind.

Was there ever an interview between Dawkins and Sheldrake? that would have been fun.

Or Dawkins v Stuart Hammeroff
Dawkins v Bruce Lipton
Dawkins v Joe Dispenza
Dawkins v Tom Campbell
Dawkins v Depac Chopra
Dawkins v Sir Roger Penrose

a reply to: andy06shake

I agree with you.
Science has the ability to measure the objective world. Mysticism measures the subjective.

a reply to: Blarneystoner

Sooo deep... but untrue woo woo... Science is a tool... nothing more, nothing less.

That is not something you can prove. As I said science has a failure in being able to measure subjective experience. As QM is proving matter is a epiphenomena of consciousness. That is not something you will as it wont fit into your out dated machine like Cartesian view of the world.

But hey hoe that view is dying. Mechanical science is on the wane and you find yourself on the wrong side of history. Singing the death song of a swan.

Well RIP swan

:-)

a reply to: Blarneystoner

Are you sure? Which direction are you travelling again? Relative to what?

I agree all ego based knowledge is subjective and relative.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: andy06shake

I agree with you.
Science has the ability to measure the objective world. Mysticism measures the subjective.

The lines between the mystic and objective are becoming more blurry everyday. I personally believe there are physical mechanisms by which all "mystical" phenomena (ESP, Prophecy, faith healing, etc..) propagate. These things are all "knowable" in a mathematical sense, not just empirically or via divine inspiration. Esoteric knowledge, by definition isn't readily available to everyone or easily understood by the masses. Thus the need for religion, it's doctrines and practices.

It's easier to convince someone that praying to an almighty power will bring about positive (or negative) change rather than trying to explain the quantum mechanisms that manifest reality as a product of our intent.

....like telling a child half truths and watered down explanations to keep them on the right track and answer their questions before they are mature enough to understand the whole truth.

Science is a tool... whether it's used for good or evil is up to man.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Blarneystoner

Sooo deep... but untrue woo woo... Science is a tool... nothing more, nothing less.

....you find yourself on the wrong side of history. Singing the death song of a swan.

Well RIP swan

:-)

On the contrary... I'm on the bleeding edge... you may have to run to catch up... ;-)

a reply to: Blarneystoner

Again I agree QM will change everything. It also shows us the limitation of a tool. You wont understand this stuff with logic. If we want to explore this we will need a new set of tools. Not the tools of mechanical science that like to break the world into a subject / object view.

a reply to: Blarneystoner

I personally believe there are physical mechanisms by which all "mystical" phenomena (ESP, Prophecy, faith healing, etc..) propagate

I agree. Energetic body state is something that science could already measure if it wanted and faith healing and how it affects the body physically can be measured. Some people are very strong at pushing energy while other are not since they are not training themselves.

I have been had 3 persons Kundalini heat with Reiki and I jumped up very fast since the heat was to annoying for me to handle.

The Amygdala fear overload could have been known and body changes quantified since it is one of the paths to higher body and self awareness. Now it is discussed by Mystics in Scifi. The amydala is created flawed if humans are after most body well being feeling during their life. I would recommend the slower awareness increase thru meditation and slow increase in energetic body awareness but sometimes you end up taking the shortcut.

LITANY AGAINST FEAR I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

The Amygdala fear overload could have been known and body changes quantified since it is one of the paths to higher body and self awareness. Now it is discussed by Mystics in Scifi. The amydala is created flawed if humans are after most body well being feeling during their life. I would recommend the slower awareness increase thru meditation and slow increase in energetic body awareness but sometimes you end up taking the shortcut.

There has been research to suggest that those who live in forests or close to, go through physiological changes to the Amygdala, that sort of suggests to me that modern society living so removed from nature, is not benefiting from a natural process that allows them to see our interconnectedness, our oneness and our unity.


Amygdala

“Research on brain plasticity supports the assumption that the environment can shape brain structure and function. That is why we are interested in the environmental conditions that may have positive effects on brain development. Studies of people in the countryside have already shown that living close to nature is good for their mental health and well-being. We therefore decided to examine city dwellers,”

Maybe all atheists live in high rise buildings

Blarneystoner:

The Truth is singular but the perspectives from which it is perceived are infinite.

Truth is singular, all versions are mistruths .. There is only one true perspective.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Blarneystoner

Again I agree QM will change everything. It also shows us the limitation of a tool. You wont understand this stuff with logic. If we want to explore this we will need a new set of tools. Not the tools of mechanical science that like to break the world into a subject / object view.

I agree, our tools do need improvement.

Logic itself is simply a tool as well. Mathematics is the language of the universe. Logic attempts to translate human language into mathematical formulas. Truth can be gleened from the correct application of logic, or at least a proper perspective to percieve from. Our knowledge of the universal language is rudamentary at best but I think it's a worthy effort to pursue. QM introduces uncertainty to the equations and provides a better understanding of the language.

Mechanical science is necessary, it always will be as long as we have mechanical bodies.

But I do think I understand your point here though. Pursuit of scienctific knowledge without an equally vigorous pursuit of Virtue is soul-less. On that point I definitely agree. However, I think our understanding of the spiritual realm needs an overhaul. I think it's coming. It will be painful but necessary. The fundamental truths will remain.

....but what is Virtue?

a reply to: Blarneystoner

Well if Gods or a creator force exists, there language will be mathematics.

Science is not predominantly good or bad, that's our bag and our control constructs at play.

Science is nothing more than a tool for the job at hand, how we use it, and what we do with it is our own concern.

Virtue is all about moral standards, science has nothing to do with morality, again that's our own bag of spanners to contend with.

Science is a key but we decide what door it unlocks.

a reply to: purplemer

Science equates to the understanding of the physical universe.

Religion is more about philosophy and metaphysics.

There's possibly some middle ground all the same but it's few and far between if you know what i mean.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Blarneystoner

Well if Gods or a creator force exists, there language will be mathematics.

Science is not predominantly good or bad, that's our bag and our control constructs at play.

Science is nothing more than a tool for the job at hand, how we use it, and what we do with it is our own concern.

Virtue is all about moral standards, science has nothing to do with morality, again that's our own bag of spanners to contend with.

Science is a key but we decide what door it unlocks.

"What is Virtue?" Is a question that was tackled by Plato. I asked it rhetorically as a nod to the Greek philosophers... because we here on ATS frequently talk about the same subjects they contemplated.