Should we reform religion so we can get rid of Irational and hysterical beliefs completly?

a reply to: metal5643

Look at all of these christians arguing about what god is, and what god wants, and what the bible says. It’s pretty obvious that each of them are just making up whatever they want god to be, and then trying to force everyone else to believe them.

a reply to: Woodcarver

So what?
What do you want?

People have different opinions and understandings, it's right across every philosophy and faith
You would be whinging we are all sheep if we all agreed on the same thing

I guess as an atheist you think Stalin was a great man, Mao was wonderful, how they carried out their beliefs, what no?
You atheists argue over your beliefs and philosophy as well

Hypocrit

a reply to: metal5643

Pardon me if I don't accept what is rational from someone who misspells irrational not once but twice.

I like that you claim people with ndes all admit to making it up. That's a very bold claim considering the thousands who have had ndes, you'd have been better off sticking to the other idiotic write off other atheists use trying to dismiss them as last ditch chemical reactions by the dying brain.

What do you care about other people's religions, why don't you start with the irrational claims of your own religion?

Jaden

originally posted by: metal5643
I think we can all agree that the most valuable thing a person should seek in life is meaning and not purpose , it is clear that traditional religion indeed gives the average individual a sense of personal meaning which allows people to live a fulfilled and happy life. However believing in a purpose can be dangerous because it suggest that there is an objective reason for our existence or why we live , for religious people this type of thinking can lead to Fundamentalism and for Atheists it usually leads to Nihilism.

Most scholars & archeologists agree that a lot of verses In the hebrew bible have been misinterpreted especially those regarding the Afterlife and the End times most of which were just metaphorical & symbolic. And what frustrates me is that all those books and films of individuals who claimed they had been to hell/heaven and back were admittedly made up , Having clinnically died myself I'm not surprised because I had no memories during death at all. So why is it necessary to include hysterical and misinterpreted doctrines in religion?

When I see hyper religious people going to church , praying and yearning for answers It's clear most of them are just looking for meaning and not some special purpose. So can we reform religion and completly get rid of all these hysterical and irational beliefs?

(don't get me wrong I believe we need religion and that religion can improve the well-being of a person but it can also cause alot of misery if misinterpreted)

1st....there is no "we" that represents all nation's, creed's and colors. Which is why we have this thing called WARS....

There is no culmative co-op "we". Kum-ba-ya is just a song.....

I see more irrational and hysterical behavior coming from outside religion these days than from religion. Christianity is usually peaceful and harmless, I have not seen too many Christian churches spreading hysteria or irrational behavior. There may be some factions of Islam that are bad and irrational, but the majority of muslims are decent people too, same with the majority of the religions. Right now there are people in this country causing civil unrest, I would tend to believe none of them are Christian people.

So we can put all our trust in man and flawed governments. F that.

How many wars were fought by religion free communist? Directly or by proxy. Belief in the state can become its own religion.

a reply to: rickymouse

Don’t think it matter in or out of religion
People are the problem

We have an OP calling for something where people are subjugated to fit his ideal
Many don’t seem to think that is unreasonable, the OP is no different to those that he is condemning
Just according to their philosophy

originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: Raggedyman
You know that the belief in nothing, atheism that is, brought humanity Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot just to name a few
One of the stupidest arguments ever

Hitler sent Jews and Gypsies to the gas chamber because they were sub humans or not evolved

And Christianity brought us the Crusades, etc etc etc. Religion as a whole has brought WAY more violence and murder upon humanity than Atheism has.

I can't stand this argument. First of all, it wasn't the "belief in nothing" that caused those folks to murder people. It was their belief that they were superior and didn't want to be challenged that led to the murder of millions of people.
However, the Crusades were, literally, religious wars. Scores of people murdered because of no reason other than...religion.

Religious folks need to retire this "atheism causes murder" argument. It's detrimental to your cause, and is so easily proven wrong.

Show me any instance of mass murder/genocide/etc committed by an atheist BECAUSE of the atheist's "religious" beliefs. Any instance.

Any instance ?

PolPot's murderous rampage in Cambodia, for whom his version of communism was his religion.
These people were murdered precisely because PolPot believed these "bourgeois" a threat to his beliefs and new order.

I could also point you to Lenin's Cheka, or better yet "highest end of the plausible range of deaths attributed to communist regimes" was up to 110 million." :en.wikipedia.org...

Finally, the Crusades were a CENTURIES-delayed response to muslim invasions, starting with the Battle of Tours in the 8th century until the invasion of Anatolia by Turks in the 11th century brought Pope Urban II to announce the first Crusade.

Your gross ignorance of history is breathtaking.

originally posted by: neutronflux
How many wars were fought by religion free communist? Directly or by proxy. Belief in the state can become its own religion.

Actually, belief in science can become a religion. Science can be steered by fear and beliefs, evidence can be created to fit one's beliefs. Science only engineered the atomic bomb. The people who funded the research actually created it. Science is a tool used by both good and evil, ones perception of good and evil is spurred by their beliefs. People who want power desire weapons to control the masses, then you have others with beliefs that do not match the beliefs of the WMDs that are forced to make their own weapons of mass destruction so they do not get blown away. I do not think there will ever be peace on earth as long as Humans with a desire to control others are around.

a reply to: rickymouse

u2u sent. friendly.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Atheists are redundant. It jusf means anything nonJrdua

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: rickymouse

Don’t think it matter in or out of religion
People are the problem

We have an OP calling for something where people are subjugated to fit his ideal
Many don’t seem to think that is unreasonable, the OP is no different to those that he is condemning
Just according to their philosophy

My main concern is

1. The misinterpretation of religious text
2. The lack of evidence to support those misinterpreted text.
3. And the effects it can have on a person's mental health and well-being.

I understand that my opinions are subjective that's why people (especially children) should be exposed to different perspectives and choose what they want to believe.

a reply to: metal5643

So you are mixing Christianity with Eastern beliefs of trans meditation and then say that the texts are misunderstood
Jesus teachings were very clear, He said love God love each other

I agree, people should study different faith and philosophies but it's not my job to make them or demand it
I also don't decide what people should believe or shouldn't

Ideally, religions take two natural paths -- either the adherents grow up and reform themselves from within their sects, or they spiral downward and drive their sect to extinction.

However, when a sect becomes so large that it influences political and social norms, it makes change very difficult unless the adherents REALLY push back hard, or they annihilate themselves via excessive power over others, and by that, I mean those others fighting back and killing them off.

People can choose to grow up and reform their religious beliefs from within their sects, but when the echo chamber crowd grows big enough, it's led by a pervasive crowd mentality that makes that choice very hard to accomplish.

Humans are still effectively in mental diapers. It's going to be many more generations before we mature enough to reform to overall benevolency on a global scale. There's just too much tempting power to be had over others right now.

a reply to: Nyiah

Well said

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: metal5643

I like that you claim people with ndes all admit to making it up. That's a very bold claim considering the thousands who have had ndes, you'd have been better off sticking to the other idiotic write off other atheists use trying to dismiss them as last ditch chemical reactions by the dying brain.

edit on 22-12-2018 by metal5643 because: (no reason given)

Hell ... God's final solution

There are quite a range of opinions here. I don't really see much value looking for evidence of hell in the old testament. It is mostly a Christian belief. As far as I can tell, the idea of a soul that is separate from the physical body is completely absent from the first five books.

When we go straight to the end of the New Testament, which deals directly with these matters, we see a judgement and a lake of fire. The judgement itself seems to rule out universal salvation. The lake of fire is the second death which consumes the individual. This seems to rule out eternal, conscious suffering. Don't fear he who can kill the body but he who can destroy both body and soul (paraphrased from memory.)

But there must be something because it is said that after Jesus was crucified, he descended to hell and converted many. Since this occurred before the judgement, it must be different from the final hell we see in Revelation. The Catholic church no longer believes in Purgatory; I am not so sure anyone else does either but there does seem to be a holding place, maybe under God's throne that houses souls but is not the Biblical hell of the NT. This would also go to the question of whether we are even conscious after death or go straight to judgement.

Jesus speaks of hell often. Mark 9
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Hell is like a burning garbage pit. So I guess the conclusion is up to interpretation.

a reply to: toms54

It is mostly a Christian belief.

Really? I would say Christin hell is a Christian belief. The concept of punishment is a factor in many religions.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

In "Devaduta Sutta", the 130th discourse of the Majjhima Nikaya, Buddha teaches about hell in vivid detail. Buddhism teaches that there are five (sometimes six) realms of rebirth, which can then be further subdivided into degrees of agony or pleasure. Of these realms, the hell realms, or Naraka, is the lowest realm of rebirth.

Ancient Egypt
en.m.wikipedia.org...

At death a person faced judgment by a tribunal of forty-two divine judges. If they had led a life in conformance with the precepts of the Goddess Maat, who represented truth and right living, the person was welcomed into the heavenly reed fields. If found guilty the person was thrown to Ammit, the "devourer of the dead" and would be condemned to the lake of fire.[18] The person taken by the devourer is subject first to terrifying punishment and then annihilated. These depictions of punishment may have influenced medieval perceptions of the inferno in hell via early Christian and Coptic texts.[19]

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: metal5643

So you are mixing Christianity with Eastern beliefs of trans meditation and then say that the texts are misunderstood
Jesus teachings were very clear, He said love God love each other

I agree, people should study different faith and philosophies but it's not my job to make them or demand it
I also don't decide what people should believe or shouldn't

Awesome post