Bob Lazar : Area 51 & Flying Saucers... The whole story.

originally posted by: vance
a reply to: Outlier13

A dude with real verifiable schooling, says the tests that you speak of, was plasma weapons test, did you not read that debunk? I was fascinated with the story till I read it. An earlier poster linked to it. I am so humbly respectful of skeptics since I joined this site back in 03'. I was chasing my tail believing everything about the subject. Only the skeptical saved me from that nonsense lol. Here it is again. Another poster in this thread deserves the credit. Is this not easier to believe? Debunked by real Phd.

Apart from this very theory you now believe, is nonsense!

What I found intriguing, whatever you thought about Bob Lazar, in the Court record pre sentencing? report for Pandering (the cat house thing), Lazar reported an item he was paying if I remember right, 10K per month on something, and refused to say what it was or why. That got me wondering, what would you pay payments of 10K for? Loan for his business? Big scientific equipment? A mainframe computer for scientific research? And who was he paying this to? Govt? Seems unusual that a 'whistleblower' continues a business that sells to government entities, and can afford a payment of 10K a month back then.
The Govt shill, or mouthpiece angle had me wondering if TPTB wanted this disclosed, with a useful 'Patsy' of course, with Pandering charge so he's discredited, and some truth mixed with Whoo Hoo stuff. I' think the alphabet angencies do set people up. Of course by now both for/against have had their say, and only Lazar(and Gubmint?) knows what is true or not.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

tbh, After all the talk of Lazar not having any of the credentials he claimed, like degrees or ids or whatever it was at the time when I read about it, it made me disregard all that he said, i mean if someone gave you all these fantastical stories and you found he was lying about one, then he's lying about them all, although i have come to notice this is SOP, it happens all the time, which makes you wonder if it's all deliberate or if something else is creating these fallacies un the stories to discredit all.

Who could do that? the right special interest group could do it easy, at bilderberg you could prob pick any team that could help you do anything. Media, politicians, gov officials, princes, and all the rest, imagine being one of them it must be like a game to them...

originally posted by: ManyMasks
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

tbh, After all the talk of Lazar not having any of the credentials he claimed, like degrees or ids or whatever it was at the time when I read about it, it made me disregard all that he said, i mean if someone gave you all these fantastical stories and you found he was lying about one, then he's lying about them all, although i have come to notice this is SOP, it happens all the time, which makes you wonder if it's all deliberate or if something else is creating these fallacies un the stories to discredit all.

Who could do that? the right special interest group could do it easy, at bilderberg you could prob pick any team that could help you do anything. Media, politicians, gov officials, princes, and all the rest, imagine being one of them it must be like a game to them...

Well we know he worked at Los Alamos, which they tried to deny, so yes, there could be erasing his records, or trying too anyway. And if they are, you have to ask why?

a reply to: Jay-morris

Embarrassment, PR management, Take the attention off the Labs and other classified work it was doing... didn't work out so well huh...

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: Jay-morris

Embarrassment, PR management, Take the attention off the Labs and other classified work it was doing... didn't work out so well huh...

I've heard this theory floated around for years as well and have to disagree with it. Unless I am mistaken until Bob Lazar came out on the record about his research...S4 (Papoose Lake Facility) was not in the news (especially mainstream news) in any capacity. Let alone a national spotlight. I believe S4 or the Papoose Lake Facility had been briefly mentioned 8ish years prior to Lazar's story but, again, unless someone can correct me it was in no way a mainstream topic.

With this being the case why would the government willfully create a false story to take attention off the labs when there was never any attention on the labs to begin with? By that point in time Area 51 was already so shrouded in urban legend it would serve the powers that be to just allow that urban legend to continue unobstructed. Therefore the majority of the public would simply write it off as UFO conspiracy nut jobs.

This is why I have never believed this theory.

originally posted by: Outlier13


With this being the case why would the government willfully create a false story to take attention off the labs when there was never any attention on the labs to begin with? By that point in time Area 51 was already so shrouded in urban legend it would serve the powers that be to just allow that urban legend to continue unobstructed. Therefore the majority of the public would simply write it off as UFO conspiracy nut jobs.

I'd like to provide some additional color to the story, not to refute your position but simply to expand on the history and hopefully give you some additional context to consider.

In the early 60's it was well known by base personnel that the Soviets were doing regular satellite flyovers of Creech/Nellis/Groom hoping to catch something. As I understand it they even had the daily schedules of when satellites would be passing over, so most tests were done between 2am-5am to avoid prying eyes. It was also during this period that the intelligence community believed the Soviets were heavily involved in paraphysical studies (RV/Telekinesis/Spoon-Bending) hoping for military applications. Was it true? Sure from a certain point of view; the US had its own fringe programs that may or may not have produced anything of substance. My theory is that the US and Russia were playing a game of follow-the-leader and constantly trying to get the jump on one another. They study horse poop, we study bear poop, rinse & repeat.

The "UFO reverse-engineering" angle of the 80's was a huge boon to the US-IC, simply because it was a distraction that the Soviets would waste time chasing rather than looking into what was really being done in aviation/radar/physics. If Russia believed the hype, then it meant they believed the US had a strategic military advantage. If they didn't believe it, then that might be a "tell" that they had their own inside knowledge. It's a game for both sides where information is both the weapon and the shield.

And yes, Ufology did exactly what the US-IC wanted them to do; take the stories, go off the deep end on conjecture, and lead anyone listening down a rabbit hole of false leads, disinfo, obfuscation, and general head scratching while the global scientific community scoffs in the distance and dismisses the whole affair. No experts, only pundits and book publishers. Richard Doty's very career was based off of this approach.

Is that to say it's all a lie? I can't say that nor can anyone else with any authority, but it's certainly not the objective truth (I would posit that no one on planet Earth knows the objective truth, even today). Is that to say Bob has been telling the truth? HIS truth, but I think we can all agree there are some highlights and there are some blemishes leaving us all with a 50/50 reading on the truth meter. Besides, the best lies contain small truths.

TL;DR The military/intelligence communities of the major superpowers have a knack for controlling the narrative - they wrote the rules, they set the stage, and they choose the cast.

originally posted by: [post=24033669]ParticleNode
I would posit that no one on planet Earth knows the objective truth, even today

Thanks for the thoughtful response. It is the above line from your response that resonates most with me. Although, I do believe some one (some group) does know the objective truth.

originally posted by: ParticleNode


Is that to say it's all a lie? I can't say that nor can anyone else with any authority, but it's certainly not the objective truth (I would posit that no one on planet Earth knows the objective truth, even today). Is that to say Bob has been telling the truth? HIS truth, but I think we can all agree there are some highlights and there are some blemishes leaving us all with a 50/50 reading on the truth meter. Besides, the best lies contain small truths.

I recently listened to some old Lazar interviews, I can say he is a complete liar.
Few points:

He claims element 115 is in the "island of stability" and used as fuel in ET ship. We now know that even the longest isotope of 115 decays in .8 seconds.
The island of stability around 115 was predicted in the 1960s but it isn't at 115, we now know.

He repeatedly says "gravity fields effect space-time".
They do not, physicists do not talk like that. Gravity is the curvature of space-time.

Lazar says: "ET has 2 gravitys A and B, one is our familiar gravity one is quantum and is what we call the strong force.
In element 115 the strong force (gravity A) extends far out from the substance making it able to warp space-time."

This is basically like saying quantum gravity is light (EM force). It makes no sense. The strong force is billions of times stronger than gravity, even if this nonsense was true then the rock of element 115 would be billions of times heavier than a normal rock. The strong force is very short range, it does not completely violate all predictions of quantum mechanics, energy conservation and the standard model just because you add some protons to an element.
There are 4 basic forces:
electromagnetic, strong, weak, gravity

saying quantum gravity is the strong force is equal to saying quantum gravity is light/EM force. The strong force particle is a gluon and it actually a bit like light, it's massless and moves at light speed and is a boson/force carrier.


But it gets worse:

"The graviton is the hypothetical particle of gravity but gravity is not a particle, that's stupid, gravity is only a wave"

Well all quantum objects are both particle/wave but what's worse is that the strong force (like all quantum objects) has a particle - the gluon, and it has particle/wave behavior.
People (maybe Lazar also) are trying to make this wave statement about gravity waves but that clearly is not what he meant.


So physicists at area 51 put some foil, rubber, balsa wood, scotch tape and 24 giant neoprene balloons 700 feet long into a spaceship and how exactly did they come to an understanding of all this new physics? Lazar explains it like he read a manual. And that we now have a secret understanding of quantum gravity (since the 1980s) but will never tell other physicists?
He spoke of gravitational physics completely like an amateur. Not even one mention of general relativity and countless references of gravity as a "field that effects space-time".
Oh and we fly around in this craft! So we are making element 115?

and wow guess what, alien physics is exactly our physics just switched around in a non-senseical way?

His claims of being a physicist are easily debunked, if anyone ever runs into him at a conference ask him to complete some Einstein field equations used in GR.

a reply to: joelr

Gravity is only observed in our world. To date there is not one single explanation as to how gravity actually works. Only theories.

You are trying to debunk an argument based on your opinion which makes your argument worthless. Unless you can present a set of contradicting facts that refute Lazar's story then you have no basis for an argument. Just like I have no basis for an argument that Lazar's story is true. Because I cannot prove how gravity actually functions, nor can I prove how element 115 functions when introduced to a gravitational wave.

Lazar doesn't state that we (humans) are capable of creating a stable (or usable) amount of element 115. This is why he said it had to have come from somewhere other than Earth. So I'm not sure why you are conflating his comments around 115 as an assertion that we created it, because he never says that.

I can tell you your claim to Lazar not being a physicist is contradicted by many people who have known or know Lazar. Here is an interview from 2015 with a still active physicist who worked at Los Alamos during the same time Bob Lazar worked there. He knew Lazar to be a physicist working at Los Alamos. Keep in mind Los Alamos denied Bob Lazar ever worked at Los Alamos and only when presented with evidence did they acknowledge they did at one point have a Bob Lazar who worked there. This shows intent to deceive and cover up on the part of Los Alamos.

Yes, I Knew Bob Lazar at Los Alamos Podcast

The individual (a physicist) in this interview holds a doctorate from MIT. He states the scientific information put forth by Bob Lazar makes sense and found nothing wrong with the science of what Bob Lazar has stated behind how a gravity propulsion system works and how space time is affected by gravity.

So if your argument is you know more about a theoretical gravity propulsion system than Lazar therefore he must be a liar then please give the degreed MIT doctorate holder in this interview a call and tell him he, too, is wrong.

As an aside Lazar actually discusses 2 of the 10 equations you referenced in Einstein's field equations. He doesn't show the exotic math because it would make absolutely zero sense to us.

I'm all for people not believing a story when they hear it but I don't agree with people making things up another person never said just because they don't believe them.

One thing that was always endearing about the case....Lazar could really care less whether he's believed or not. And this sentiment always seems genuine.

originally posted by: joelr

originally posted by: ParticleNode


Is that to say it's all a lie? I can't say that nor can anyone else with any authority, but it's certainly not the objective truth (I would posit that no one on planet Earth knows the objective truth, even today). Is that to say Bob has been telling the truth? HIS truth, but I think we can all agree there are some highlights and there are some blemishes leaving us all with a 50/50 reading on the truth meter. Besides, the best lies contain small truths.

I recently listened to some old Lazar interviews, I can say he is a complete liar.
Few points:

He claims element 115 is in the "island of stability" and used as fuel in ET ship. We now know that even the longest isotope of 115 decays in .8 seconds.
The island of stability around 115 was predicted in the 1960s but it isn't at 115, we now know.

He repeatedly says "gravity fields effect space-time".
They do not, physicists do not talk like that. Gravity is the curvature of space-time.

Lazar says: "ET has 2 gravitys A and B, one is our familiar gravity one is quantum and is what we call the strong force.
In element 115 the strong force (gravity A) extends far out from the substance making it able to warp space-time."

This is basically like saying quantum gravity is light (EM force). It makes no sense. The strong force is billions of times stronger than gravity, even if this nonsense was true then the rock of element 115 would be billions of times heavier than a normal rock. The strong force is very short range, it does not completely violate all predictions of quantum mechanics, energy conservation and the standard model just because you add some protons to an element.
There are 4 basic forces:
electromagnetic, strong, weak, gravity

saying quantum gravity is the strong force is equal to saying quantum gravity is light/EM force. The strong force particle is a gluon and it actually a bit like light, it's massless and moves at light speed and is a boson/force carrier.


But it gets worse:

"The graviton is the hypothetical particle of gravity but gravity is not a particle, that's stupid, gravity is only a wave"

Well all quantum objects are both particle/wave but what's worse is that the strong force (like all quantum objects) has a particle - the gluon, and it has particle/wave behavior.
People (maybe Lazar also) are trying to make this wave statement about gravity waves but that clearly is not what he meant.


So physicists at area 51 put some foil, rubber, balsa wood, scotch tape and 24 giant neoprene balloons 700 feet long into a spaceship and how exactly did they come to an understanding of all this new physics? Lazar explains it like he read a manual. And that we now have a secret understanding of quantum gravity (since the 1980s) but will never tell other physicists?
He spoke of gravitational physics completely like an amateur. Not even one mention of general relativity and countless references of gravity as a "field that effects space-time".
Oh and we fly around in this craft! So we are making element 115?

and wow guess what, alien physics is exactly our physics just switched around in a non-senseical way?

His claims of being a physicist are easily debunked, if anyone ever runs into him at a conference ask him to complete some Einstein field equations used in GR.

None of what you said is actually true. You don't add protons to make an isotope, it's NEUTRONS. If you added protons you would have a different element altogether.
This image below shows there is expected islands of stability for 115-120+
The theory and scientists discussing it say that neutron star collisions produce neutron RICH isotopes leading to these super heavy STABLE isotopes (Far away from our area of the galaxy), because of the higher neutron count within the atoms.

I read this on Scientific American web site but can't find the exact link for the article, but the image can be reverse searched for plenty of information.


People attempting to debunk Lazar had better catch up on current super-heavy element science FIRST if they expect to have the slightest valid argument.

a reply to: Outlier13

The individual (a physicist) in this interview holds a doctorate from MIT. He states the scientific information put forth by Bob Lazar makes sense and found nothing wrong with the science of what Bob Lazar has stated behind how a gravity propulsion system works and how space time is affected by gravity.

Bull

The individual is an engineer not a physicist. There is a considerable difference between the two.

And he is lying if he claims that the Lazar nonsense makes sense to him. It is quite obviously not his area of expertise.

a reply to: Outlier13

He doesnt have the education he alleges.

Tom Mahood over at www.otherhand.org... have a ton of great investigative work. Hours of reading pleasure.

www.otherhand.org...

Here is an excerpt from Tom's research into Bob's education.

"WESTBURY, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK: There doesn’t seem to be any debate that Lazar did indeed attend and graduate from this school. In correspondence with Stanton Friedman, he stated to me, “Re the High School. Bob was graduated in August, not June, 1976, strongly suggesting that he had to take a summer course to get enough credits. He ranked 261 out of 369 (bottom third). He did take Chemistry. I obtained this information myself first hand from the school. They will undoubtedly deny giving the class rank to me since that is privacy act protected…it is a long story.”

PACIFICA UNIVERSITY: The statement in his Presentencing Report that he received a Bachelors degree from Pacifica, and labeled it a “correspondence university” is rather unique. I have seen a lot of statements made by Lazar concerning his education, but in none of them does he say where he received his undergraduate degree. It’s a subject he seldom mentions.

Unfortunately, Pacifica University has proven difficult to locate. A number of national college directories were consulted, including those listing vocational and correspondence schools. A few of the guides were “The College Blue Book”, “American Universities and Colleges” and “The McMillan Guide to Correspondence Study”. Nowhere was there a Pacifica University listed.

The State of California Department of Education’s Council for Private, Post-Secondary and Vocational Education was contacted. They regulate all vocational and correspondence schools within the state. They informed me that they had no listing for a Pacifica University within California, either now or in the past.

A search of statewide phone records, at least in California, did turn up a Pacifica Liquor Store, but as tempting an explanation as that might be, it probably has no relevancy. Assuming Lazar was enrolled in a correspondence school by the name of Pacifica University in the late 1970s, it would now appear to be out of business. Unless Lazar himself is forthcoming as to just where this establishment was, additional verification efforts are likely useless.

PIERCE COLLEGE: Lazar’s attendance at this institution has been corroborated, although the extent of his attendance is not known. This was done some time ago by Stanton Friedman.

It was also done a second time by Friedman after Lazar spoke at Rachel, Nevada in May of 1993. When asked to name some of his professors at MIT and CalTech, Lazar responded with the name “Dr. Duxler” at CalTech. According to Glenn Campbell, the only Duxler listed in the 1993 “National Faculty Directory” was a William Duxler, Director of Computing for Pierce College.

According to personal correspondence, Friedman then contacted Duxler at Pierce, who was found to teach physics and math at Pierce. Duxler stated he never taught at Caltech. Further, Duxler checked his old records and told Friedman that Lazar took at least one of his classes in the late 1970s.

CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY AT NORTHRIDGE: Some people looking into Lazar’s schooling at Cal State Northridge may have picked up a false positive due to an interesting coincidence. There WAS a Robert Lazar who attended Cal State Northridge and graduated with a Bachelor of Science degree in Business in 1978. However a review of the photo in the 1978 CSUN yearbook, the “Sunburst”, clearly shows this is not our beloved Lazar, but rather someone else.

As previously mentioned, Stanton Friedman stated that he checked with CSUN and found no evidence that Lazar had attended there. Timothy Good has apparently misstated that fact in his book “Alien Contact”.

MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: Standard inquiries have been made by George Knapp and Stanton Friedman and turned up nothing. Friedman informed me that he took the additional step of checking with the alumni office and at least the 1982 commencement list.

Glenn Campbell visited MIT in 1993 and searched through a number of the printed student records there. The idea behind this particular effort was that while elimination of computer records could be within the realm of possibility, it is essentially inconceivable that some agency would have the capability to change printed records that had widespread distribution.

Lazar, or any obvious misspellings of his name, was not listed in any MIT student directory between 1978 and 1990. Other publications checked included the MIT faculty/staff telephone directories from 1978-1990, the MIT “Degree List” from 1979-1990, and the 1989 “MIT Alumni/ae Register”.

This exhaustive searching, coupled with the June 1982 Los Alamos “Monitor” story that puts Lazar in Los Alamos newly arrived from California, leads to the inevitable conclusion that Lazar did not attend MIT as he claims.

CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: Lazar has claimed, on different occasions, a Masters degree from CalTech in either electronics or electronic technology. Standard inquiries by Friedman and Knapp found no evidence of his attendance.

A recent visit by me with Natalie Gilmore of the CalTech Graduate Studies Department provided some important information. CalTech does not currently have, nor has it ever had any sort of graduate degree in “electronics” or “electronic technology”, or anything near those names. CalTech does offer a degree in Electrical Engineering.

Now if you have a friend or relative with an EE degree, you might, in conversation, refer to them as having a degree in “Electronics”, not realizing the distinction. However, if it is YOUR degree, it is highly unlikely after all the effort it required you would misstate what it was. People with advanced degrees, particularly in the science and engineering fields, are usually quite precise in the “pronunciation” of their degrees.

Assuming Lazar had a bachelors degree from an unaccredited school (The two year schooling period and correspondence status infer this), I asked Ms. Gilmore what the possibilities were for admittance into a Masters program at CalTech. She said it was possible, although extremely slim, due to the intense competition for admittance to CalTech. She also added that the Masters programs there are one year and require full time attendance.

However, Ms. Gilmore provided some additional data that actually support Lazar’s case, and in fairness should be mentioned. It seems that for most Masters programs at CalTech (including EE), a thesis is not required. Lazar has only claimed one thesis, in MHD, at MIT.

Furthermore, I had previously made a fairly exhaustive search through many years worth of the CalTech yearbook, “The Big T”, and was unable to turn up any trace of Lazar. However, Ms. Gilmore informed me that graduate students are usually not included in the publication. So it would seem that my efforts in this area, as reported in the timeline, are inconclusive.

However, the lack of on-campus evidence, coupled with his physical whereabouts still force the conclusion that Lazar never attended CalTech. His statement to the probation officer of a 1985 degree is particularly absurd in view of the activities he himself listed for 1985 in his bankruptcy papers.

I think most agree that Lazar has told falsehoods about his credentials. It's easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and just assume that he's lying about EVERYTHING. But there's simply too much other corroborating evidence that makes an outright dismissal difficult.

At the end of the day, you either believe parts of his story, or you don't. There's a lot of evidence for both sides of it, won't lie. In any case, as the OP stated, his story certainly changed UFOlogy. For the worse, or for the better, is more of a personal interpretation.

However, it's interesting to note just how much alien related media there was around this time, and how much of it was more slanted towards the subject being credible, and government disclosure nearly inevitable. For those us alive at the time, it was a pretty exciting time (and then disappointing, when all of that hype amounted to nothing).

If you want a taste of it though, Google for the UFO CoverUp Live specials. Sure, it's all since been relegated to "Aviary" lore, but it sure got a lot of folks talking about the subject....and should serve as a good example of how the subject was handled then. (early 80's)....

How can a person who is intelligent and seeming lacking in guile tell a story like the one BL has told, and how does he get to the point of believing his own hype and legend?

I think he tells this 'story' and that it is not a lie to him because he thinks of himself as a 'story teller'.

It was the same thing with Col. Corso - he was the teller of 'stories' ---so say his children. Corso down't think of himself as 'lying' - that's reprehensible.

Likewise a giggling Lazar and a chuckling John Lear cooked up this story between the two of them, not really intending it to get out as a 'real thing'. I think they were trying to fool each other by concoting a more and more believable tale and then onr evening they relized they could turn it into a bigger 'hoot'. The telling of it shows 'practive' and 'questioning'. Thus them telling it back and forth to eahc other.

There are some BIG tells - one is that they just HAD to put aliens in there. ANd not just any aliens, but ZR aliens.

So just enjoy the story. THere are no aliens coming here in atmospheric craft and flying around. Lazar, if he 'saw' anything it was a mockup of such a craft - possibly designed to fool someone.

There is no 500lbs of Element 115, but they played back and forth with the idea such that it kind of became real to them. They succumbed to their own story telling but then Lazar wanted out.

Pardon the typos. I'm typing this quickly so I can get back to my physical therapy (had a major life threatening heath scare)

If I suddenly stop posting, guys, it's been fun. But I may not be long for 'this Earth' if forces conspire and things take a down turn.

originally posted by: moebius

a reply to: Outlier13

The individual (a physicist) in this interview holds a doctorate from MIT. He states the scientific information put forth by Bob Lazar makes sense and found nothing wrong with the science of what Bob Lazar has stated behind how a gravity propulsion system works and how space time is affected by gravity.

Bull

The individual is an engineer not a physicist. There is a considerable difference between the two.

And he is lying if he claims that the Lazar nonsense makes sense to him. It is quite obviously not his area of expertise.

It's pretty clear you have selective hearing. If you want to debate the context of what you refute then let's hear your explanation on how a gravity propulsion system works.

originally posted by: Gazrok
I think most agree that Lazar has told falsehoods about his credentials. It's easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and just assume that he's lying about EVERYTHING. But there's simply too much other corroborating evidence that makes an outright dismissal difficult.

Don't down play and sugar coat it and say "falsehoods"... say it for what it is -- he lied. Lazar has provided nothing in the way of evidence in the last 30 years that he's worked on alien spacecraft. Is the phenomenon so desperate for evidence (ANY evidence) that liars have to be accepted and ignored? It's a sad state when things are reduced to this.

I see the discussion of the supposed theft of element 115 has petered out. Once again no accountability is held and it will be forgotten. Lazar doesn't discuss how it was removed or what experiments he may have attempted because it corners him into providing physical facts. He'd rather discuss the fantasy side of alien spacecraft and Zeta Reticulan aliens because it doesn't require physical evidence and thanks to diehard believers, he can endlessly survive just on the story itself. No respect for someone who lies and plays manipulation/mind games.

Lazar's education has been thoroughly debunked. Not by a "debunker" but by Stanton Friedman who is a huge supporter of the phenomenon. Research it as it's been mentioned above and apply some common sense and logic.
Lazar hasn't gone anywhere and no one is putting a gun to his head so he's obviously is getting something out of it if he continues to pop up every now and again.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Lazar hasn't gone anywhere and no one is putting a gun to his head so he's obviously is getting something out of it if he continues to pop up every now and again.

Maybe he’s a masochist and enjoys the personal attacks and assaults on his sanity? Sure beats being a keyboard warrior with a handle/screen name, that rubs it in the nose of those with a less than clever one — the unproven, rage of the late 19th century ‘latest’ pandering.

I did drink Hi-C’s ecto-cooler as a kid...if that ameliorates your sensibilities.

Yaters gonna, Yate.

Chargers: 2019 Super Bowl Champions

I enjoyed the documentary.
Even contacted Jeremy to tell him that this was another one of his greats.

When it comes down to do I believe Bob, I can honestly say yes I do.
I have from the get-go. In fact, its what brought me to ATS oh so long ago.

Years from now there will be enough proof to back up Bobs claims.
Hell even in the doc - Jeremy does some digging around and finds the hand scanner Bob explained years back -
the same one that everyone previously said Bob was lying about.
More and more of these things will come to light.