Bob Lazar : Area 51 & Flying Saucers... The whole story.

a reply to: Sublant

What is your view on Bob's motive?

No idea. The 80s were a lively time and especially around the Vegas area. MJ-12 docs were going strong and there was a lot of dis/misinformation being pumped into the scene by known guys and shadowy characters. Bill Moore had just revealed his own part in the disinfo culture at a MUFON conference. Norio Hayakawa spoke about a media meeting with Lazar at some property. He said there were (iirc) two bodyguard-type guys there wearing some tricorder-style ostentatious tech and the property didn't look lived in. There appears to have been a lot of pretension and theatre going on.

For the record, I believe Bob thinks he is telling the truth.

A lot of people who've met him or know him feel the same way.

a reply to: ctj83

Seeing as the guys who ran DAVA and hawked the Holoman footage in the 80s were Billy acolytes (according to Vallee), and one even went onboard a Sports model seals it for me.

Likely, in my mind, is that in the 60s, for some reason a core story bible was produced. Like MJ12 Enhanced.

Those were probably the documents that Lazar saw.

There was a little tidal pool of the same characters promoting similar stories. Some argue it was official AFOSI business and others say it was rogue elements acting on their own agendas. I guess another segment believe we did deals with aliens at Holloman and were double-crossed by the cattle-mutilating evil aliens from the Dulce base.

There's next to no evidence that MJ-12 was real and compelling evidence that Meier's photos were hoaxes. It's a fact that the docs from Doty were hoaxes which lured people into unknown depths.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if there was something more to the Bennewitz thing than misinfo and exploitation. Maybe more than Greg Bishop disclosed in his Project Beta book. Lazar might have been drawn into the same tidal pool? Ultimately, it's the business of national security and pretty serious people operate on that level.

I'll have a look at the blog you mention.

originally posted by: FosterVS

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: 727Sky
"Site four gate" is clearly on old maps way before lazar came along.

This "flat plain" was primarily used to test "acquired foreign radar systems" against new stealth platforms to see how they would operate against the same radar systems on foreign soil.

ETA: just a little tidbit I noticed. Both Lazar and Corbell refer to this latest release as a "movie" not a "documentary".

You do realize "a movie" doesn't mean it's a work of fiction? A cinematic documentary is a movie, " a recording of moving images that tells a story and that people watch on a screen or television".

a reply to: Kandinsky

Without going too far off topic, I have two reasons to doubt the common / Greg Bishop book timeline for Bennewitz.

It now appears (I forget the blogger) that the airforce were talking to Bennewitz months before they were supposed to.

Bennewitz was drawn in a cattle mutilation conference because he was asked to look at Gabe Valdez’ find of an altimeter.

At this point, Valdez’ alarm bells were ringing. Thunder possibly manufactured such devices but even if they didn’t they are so similar Bennewitz he must have doubted any “alien hypothesis” to my mind.

Clearly keeping Bennewitz quiet that way backfired. Perhaps with Bob a different tact was taken.

a reply to: ctj83

It now appears (I forget the blogger) that the airforce were talking to Bennewitz months before they were supposed to.

It's possible and all academic at this point imo. I'd guess it was Greg Valdez, Chris Lambright or Norio Hayakawa. FWIW Greg Bishop isn't 100% convinced on the timelines either and always remains open to new information.

a reply to: Kandinsky

It bugs me that you can find Billy Meier acolytes in so many cases.

- The attempts to sell the Holloman footage to Jacques Vallee and Hynek
- The repeated attempt to sell Emenegger and Linda Howe live alien interviews in the 80s
- Odd people on the edge of Rendlesham's Butler / Street

Then the actual craft turns up in the Bob Lazar story and no one asks him about it.

I suspect no one has ever asked Bob how the Craft or the hanger smelled. I'd guess he'd be as direct as anything else and I predict he's say he couldn't smell anything at all.

Clearly, however, TTSA expect to bring more to the table about these events.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Just because you misuse a phrase doesn't make you ignorant. You're trying to fit an incorrectly used phrase to support your position. Like I said...re-read that poster's original post and stay on the topic of the thread and put your ego aside. This isn't about you.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Looks like the ego maniacs have officially made their appearance. Stick to the topic of Bob Lazar and not to your misuse of a phrase.

You incorrectly used the phrase. Get over it.

Let's hear an alternative story to what Bob Lazar puts forth that refutes Lazar's account of what he experienced.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Your response to a simple question as to what Bob's motive was is "no idea" and you expect to voice an opinion and have people give it any consideration?

If you have no idea then why are you even posting in this thread?

To those of you who watched the movie and are non-believers in the Lazar story did you not at least find the FBI raid the day after Corbel and Lazar met to discuss element 115 highly revealing? The FBI raids Lazar the day after AND directly references the element 115 conversation between Lazar and Jeremy.

If Bob Lazar is a liar then why the hell would the FBI raid him the day after that conversation?

Springer, by chance, did you discuss this part of the movie in more detail with Corbel and Lazar?

Okay, Lazar says he was sheep-dipped.

Does he have the degrees, diplomas, plaques, transcripts, loan documents for the educational institutions he claims to have attended??

I went to Devry University and have a diploma and plaque commemorating my studies there so if they sheep-dipped me for whatever reason id have these unless they get the CIA to come and burglarize my abode…

Where are his diplomas at the institutions he claims to be have graduated from?

And if he did he should have people who can vouch for his time there.

Today I could get people, not many, but some to say I went to DEVRY.

I have transcripts with grades and things like that so if you think about it would seem easy to prove that he went to these institutions.

I think that is one big reason Stanley Freidman doesn’t believe Lazar

And if Lazar was a misinformation episode, a part of the myriad misinformation plots the government indulged in during this time in the 80 to the ’90s; then they can’t even give the guy a legit diploma!

If I were doing a treatise on UFOlogy and had to produce known events and stories on the side of proof of the UFO phenomenon I couldn’t put the Lazar episode as proof.

No offense to the guy, he seems like a nice guy but common sense and logic overall debunks his story.

As for the movie, I really loved Mickey Rourke in Angel Heart, what a movie!... an occult classic but I think on this one I’ll wait for the free YouTube upload.

a reply to: Willtell

He can’t even answer this for himself but I can, he no longer posses any physical evidence from cal tech and mit because all of it was taken from him. He can’t even elude to that though, you see he still has contracts and is bound by confidentiality and to do so would not paint him a fool but instead cost him a substantial amount of his livelihood...

originally posted by: Outlier13
To those of you who watched the movie and are non-believers in the Lazar story did you not at least find the FBI raid the day after Corbel and Lazar met to discuss element 115 highly revealing? The FBI raids Lazar the day after AND directly references the element 115 conversation between Lazar and Jeremy.

If Bob Lazar is a liar then why the hell would the FBI raid him the day after that conversation?

Springer, by chance, did you discuss this part of the movie in more detail with Corbel and Lazar?

Can you provide any proof for that raid? Was it filmed? Is it shown in the movie?

a reply to: moebius

Are you afraid to do some actual research? Did you watch the movie? It happened.

a reply to: Willtell

When does Lazar say he was sheep-dipped? When a person is sheep-dipped they agree to it. Therefore if you believe he was actually sheep-dipped then he would have agreed to it and you essentially validate his entire story. Being sheep-dipped involves an alternate persona in the public eye which would make missing documents seem plausible. I've never heard Lazar reference being sheep-dipped.

The missing degrees have no bearing on the remainder of the story. I guarantee if Lazar produced a mountain of information such as degrees, witnesses, etc. those that are non-believers will say the degrees are falsified, the witnesses are liars, etc. I mean he had 2 different people attest to dropping him off and picking him up from Cal-Tech. I guess non-believers would say, "Yeah but did anyone see him in a class?" Then someone would come forward and say, "Yes, I saw Bob Lazar in my Cal Tech class." Then the non-believer would say, "Prove it. Show me a picture of Bob Lazar sitting in a Cal Tech class." Then the classmate would find a random photo of Bob Lazar in a Cal Tech class and the non-believer would say "how do we know he's actually a student and didn't just show up in a Cal Tech class that day?".

LOL...the burden of "proof" would never end and would always be subjective.

There are plenty of other specifics in Bob's story that have been validated yet it's irrelevant to a person who will always be a non-believer.

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: moebius

Are you afraid to do some actual research? Did you watch the movie? It happened.

Ah yes, the classic cop out non-answer.

PS:
No I did not watch the movie, that is why I am asking.

if you listen to some of the old John Lear interviews, its Lear (surprise surprise) that started talking about the whole "alien" aspect of all of this to Bob.

It wasn't like Bob was a crazy UFO guy, he never was... But Lear most definitely was..

John Lear: So anyway, I meet Bob. We talk. He thinks me and Gene are totally nuts. He said he worked at Los Alamos. He said if there had been anything about UFOs, he would have known. He said, “You guys are crazy,” and he sat there rolling his eyes at all this stuff we were talking about. So over the next few months we started giving him information and one of the things we gave him was where we thought the alien was held at Los Alamos: YY-II. And it turns out... we told him some other stuff, I forget what it was, but there were three things we told him and he confirmed all three things. He didn’t confirm that there was an alien at YY-II but he did confirm that it was a mail stop and that it was absolutely secret, I mean, one of the big secrets. So he decided to see if he could get a job up at area 51. So he called Dr. Teller. And I thought I was there for the phone call. I may not have been, I might have been there when Dr. Teller called him back, but I remember Bob saying… ah, Dr. Teller saying: “Do you want to work here at Livermore or do you want to work in Las Vegas?” And Bob said, “I want to work at Area 51.” And Teller says, “Let me see what I can do.”

It all started with Lear.....talk of the Aliens....not even including anything regarding Bennewitz or anything else and of course Lear was a highly decorated CIA pilot... CIA......!!

bob later told Lear that yes there were aliens there, "do you know what its like to see your first alien" - but then that has all been backtracked since...

what a mess.... mental masturbation without the payoff is what most of ufology is IMO

originally posted by: pigsy2400
if you listen to some of the old John Lear interviews, its Lear (surprise surprise) that started talking about the whole "alien" aspect of all of this to Bob.

It wasn't like Bob was a crazy UFO guy, he never was... But Lear most definitely was..

John Lear: So anyway, I meet Bob. We talk. He thinks me and Gene are totally nuts. He said he worked at Los Alamos. He said if there had been anything about UFOs, he would have known. He said, “You guys are crazy,” and he sat there rolling his eyes at all this stuff we were talking about. So over the next few months we started giving him information and one of the things we gave him was where we thought the alien was held at Los Alamos: YY-II. And it turns out... we told him some other stuff, I forget what it was, but there were three things we told him and he confirmed all three things. He didn’t confirm that there was an alien at YY-II but he did confirm that it was a mail stop and that it was absolutely secret, I mean, one of the big secrets. So he decided to see if he could get a job up at area 51. So he called Dr. Teller. And I thought I was there for the phone call. I may not have been, I might have been there when Dr. Teller called him back, but I remember Bob saying… ah, Dr. Teller saying: “Do you want to work here at Livermore or do you want to work in Las Vegas?” And Bob said, “I want to work at Area 51.” And Teller says, “Let me see what I can do.”

It all started with Lear.....talk of the Aliens....not even including anything regarding Bennewitz or anything else and of course Lear was a highly decorated CIA pilot... CIA......!!

bob later told Lear that yes there were aliens there, "do you know what its like to see your first alien" - but then that has all been backtracked since...

what a mess.... mental masturbation without the payoff is what most of ufology is IMO

Is it confirmed that Bob said this regarding seeing Aliens? As far as I know, this has not come out of his mouth. Can you post for me where he actually said this?

a reply to: moebius

LOL! Hypocrite much? Do your own research. It's a simple Google search. Then watch the movie to answer your own question. If you haven't watched the movie then why ask questions or comment on statement made by others relative to the movie? You lack credibility and knowledge to carry on a dialogue in the absence of the obvious.