Bob Lazar : Area 51 & Flying Saucers... The whole story.

a reply to: vinifalou

I have a one or two page thesis I wrote a while ago on how one of the "tells" of a claim is if it includes the line,

"We Reverse Engineered It" or we were hired to 'Back Engineer the Technology'.

You basically can not 'Reverse Engineer' anything beyond some very simple concurrent system.

If there is a time component over 1-5 years in a rapidly developing field (like aeronautical radar/stealth, radar absorbent coatings and so on' it is hopeless unless you have the 'method of production' laid out in great detail. Even then they might have some kind of accidental-proprietary part of it that you'd never figure out, though you might make an analog of a 'low radar observable thing' or figure out how to use other methods of detection, as it is alleged someone did of the F-117, (they say nope, and we've moved on to heat-signature cloaking and just being at 85 Angels,).

One of the other 'tells' is, IMO, the totally unnecessary inclusion of the 'ET' papers part and 'where they came from', and the dissection photos.

In a compartmentalized system there is no reason to have the RE guys and physicist be burdened down with pointless biological or star system information.

In fact ask yourself how the S4 project guys verified that it was ZR-2, planet 4, and why the 'ET' would TELL YOU, where they lived. That's kind of stupid if not pointless.

It tells me that BL put that in there to tweak John Lear. (or he and JL cooked up the story together and BL could not get JL to keep his gubby paws off the story, b/c the 'ETH' would only cook the story too much).

I'm not saying this is a truth or anything, but it's a hunch based on looking for 'tells'. FWIW

originally posted by: Maverick7


Anyway, on my 'Science side' I'm in the John Gribbin camp - Rare Earth Hypothesis I think there might be 'sentient' human-relatable civilizations at the rate of about 1 per 10 habitable galaxies, but that spreads things out very very thin.

We'll never contact each other and due to expansion of the fabric of space time we won't be able to if the Relativity model of the Universe is correct.

Heck, it doesn't even need to be that rare. There might be a couple of technological civilizations in our galaxy right now, but they could be so far away that we would never have contact the in the lifetime of our own technological civilization.

Frankly, there might have been hundreds of technological civilizations in our galaxy that have come and gone in the 4+ billion years Earth has been around, but don't exist anymore -- and when they DID exist, we did not. What I mean by that is that when their signals were reaching Earth, humans either did not yet exist, or if they did, they did not have the ability to receive those signals.


So even 5 civilizations in our own galaxy that exist right now, broadcasting their existence, might be so far away from us that we will not hear them. That's a rarity in respect to "space" -- i.e., they exist right now in our own galaxy but are few and far between.

Or hundreds may have existed at some time in the past few billion years and we missed their signals. That's a rarity in respect to "time" -- i.e., plenty have existed, but have almost all gone and gone through the passage of time.

Either way -- a rarity with respect to space or a raity with respect to time -- I agree that it could be considered a "rare earth".

a reply to: keenmachine
According to Cameron, he was only there a few days and knew about the tests as he took friends - as you mentioned - to see them. Someone had to have told him when they were to take place.

[Edit: already posted in this thread here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Originally posted by me on this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Posting again here for convienence]

originally posted by: JohnnyAnonymousBut I know I'll be entertained by the new film by Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell as I was with the SkinWalker and John Lear films he did...

How have you seen the John Lear film when it's yet to be released?

www.imdb.com...

a reply to: penroc3

I did.

originally posted by: Maverick7
a reply to: vinifalou

I have a one or two page thesis I wrote a while ago on how one of the "tells" of a claim is if it includes the line,

"We Reverse Engineered It" or we were hired to 'Back Engineer the Technology'.

You basically can not 'Reverse Engineer' anything beyond some very simple concurrent system.

If there is a time component over 1-5 years in a rapidly developing field (like aeronautical radar/stealth, radar absorbent coatings and so on' it is hopeless unless you have the 'method of production' laid out in great detail. Even then they might have some kind of accidental-proprietary part of it that you'd never figure out, though you might make an analog of a 'low radar observable thing' or figure out how to use other methods of detection, as it is alleged someone did of the F-117, (they say nope, and we've moved on to heat-signature cloaking and just being at 85 Angels,).

One of the other 'tells' is, IMO, the totally unnecessary inclusion of the 'ET' papers part and 'where they came from', and the dissection photos.

In a compartmentalized system there is no reason to have the RE guys and physicist be burdened down with pointless biological or star system information.

In fact ask yourself how the S4 project guys verified that it was ZR-2, planet 4, and why the 'ET' would TELL YOU, where they lived. That's kind of stupid if not pointless.

It tells me that BL put that in there to tweak John Lear. (or he and JL cooked up the story together and BL could not get JL to keep his gubby paws off the story, b/c the 'ETH' would only cook the story too much).

I'm not saying this is a truth or anything, but it's a hunch based on looking for 'tells'. FWIW

I like your point about the ...we reverse engineered it.....part....because that is a misnomer IMHO...they did not reverse engineer anything all they did was figure out what they could....if they had reverse engineered it then he would be talking about the natural common examples of the EXACT core value physics some of these Craft work within....now I could derail this thread in some peoples eyes or enhance in others by breaking down the specifics of what I know Bob knows and then I could take you to the natural catalyst of the physics behind the technology...as is well known and accepted or I hope it is so....all natural concepts require a numerical clone for one dimensional thinkers to easily grasp and understand them...this applies less to two-dimensioanl thinkers and even less to three-dimensional thinkers.So if we define ...reverse engineer... in terms of using numericlly catalysed programs like physics to contextually frame the physical actions we see and create and forsake geometric energy projected conduits ..well then we cannot work with my examples....if some of us are willing to PRETEND we are 2 or 3-D thinkers we can get somewhere...but to PRETEND means suspending typical definitions of proof or proof of concept and JUMPING off of theoretical cliffs...willingly sharing a temporary matrix.


IMHO nothing is ever completely reverse engineered until it is taken back to its natural source.Once you understand the natural source of specific technology Bob discusses you can VETT just how much he knows and how much his bosses likely knew at that particular point in time.Bob knows enough that someone in the know or he himself has had hands-on interaction with NewAge Technologies everyone will love once they learn about them.Its the Neuro-linkage they had trouble with...HAD back then ....I doubt they have any trouble now because I have read all of the conceptual natural physics all over the public domain in different forms and places.

IMHO Bob cannot be discounted because as with ALL people involved in this field of research he has SOME KERNELS OF TRUTH which as usual are surrounded by artificially placed and cemented BS that even he is unaware of...Bob THOUGHT no one had learned the ins and outs of the different technologies he experienced and possiby within Bobs layer of reality they really were absolutely in the dark....and again as usual the real problem for us all is to find a way to sieve out the kernels of truth...to VETT Bobs history with a conceptually true baseline....and as I said earlier one must bring everything back to nature and then illustarate the path to and fro. ....however as I pointed out a few years ago on ATS on a similar thread....if we get to deeply into the topic we begin to possibly help nefarious types...now I believe it matters not so much....there are kids playing with toys that hide some NewAge physics there are kids doing online experiments that are engaging similar concepts unbeknownst to them..alchemy is being unveiled more and more each day...the Masses now know enough that if there were enough time and continuity of data were maintained they would turn Humanities path 360 degrees in less than a Century.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Yes, I agree. I call that 'time synch'

There are two types. Time synch where they and you are in the same time epoch and technologically advanced enough to be able to read or see signals. Paradoxically the time synch for a sentient civ that is sending out a signal at light speed would synch to you when it got there and then by that time they might be gone. So it's a pitcher and. catcher synch kind of thing. It doesn't mean they are there when you are here now.

The other time synch is the period of living speed or geological time vs oh, microbial time. Like the Scalosians of that ST:OS ep S03E11, if you are living at a different rate then that matters and you wouldn't be able to 'synch up', exchange info and so forth. (obviously they speeded themselves up artificially...but still a good example)

Now I'm not talking 'living mountains' I'm talking just a little bit, but it matters. It's part of the 'can't be too different' hypothesis.

So what kind of irks me is the phrase 'you have to be pretty arrogant to believe there is no other life in the Universe'.

That's a meaningless statement and is arrogant to say that. I always say 'nobody is saying that'.


Not a list of predictions or estimates just a ball park of how I look at it:

Possibility of Life (microbial) in the Solar System -ever/nowish - nearly 100%

Possibility of Life (microbial or even multicellular) in the Galaxy- ever/now- absolutely 100%

Probability of multicellular life in the Solar System - given the ocean under the ice at Europa - 50-80% but they're stuck there...so if we don't dig then up, there they stay and die.

Probability of time synched carbon-based sentient, not too different (TSCBS-NTD) life in our own Galaxy right "now' - scant. Maybe 0.01%

BUT what about the giant whale people of Andromeda for whom our year of biological clock is much faster than theirs - well in a sense they don't matter. They're never leaving their planet and we can't communicate and by the time we get there they're dead. Yeah, cool but so what? It means it's possible - I already said that If you can't meet 'em or talk to them then it's irrelevant, IMO.

Probability that there had been other TSCBS-NTD in our galaxy with pretty good longevity, in the past 4 billion years - probably close to 100% certain but they're gone "now".

Now we get to the meat - Probability that 'they' (sentient space-faring TSBS-NTD) beings in our Galaxy or even Local gGroup that can come here arriving in the 'now', and want to do so in full-sized non-virtual' mode - nearly zero for all practical purposes.

In fact nothing outside our Local Group matters. It's speeding away from us as the fabric of Space-Time expands at the speed of light.

So to talk about 'billions and trillions' is a misunderstanding of the situation, I say.

The local group is a group of about 50 galaxies or galaxy-like star fields not all of which will have 'habitable zones'. Too young too old to radioactive, too unstable, whatever.

So no, there's no dearth of 'life' in the Galaxy, but having a microbe come here is not the same as being visited by ET. Having a nano-probe flyby the Earth during the Jurassic period is not the same as being visited by ET.

You have to e specific. But let's ask this question. Why would a Kardashev Type II civilization want to 'come here' to Earth?

To scoop up our waterT They could 'make water' I their universal synthesizer. To called human specimens? They just need two and they could synthesize them from afar using their molecular combination bio-vats.

What a Type II would be doing would be searching for a Type III not a Type 0.7 like us I'd suggest.

Anyway I've kind of laid out my sense to a degree.

Its a lot harder to be there, to be alike, to be able to go here and there and then the need to do so is minimal. It's system and purpose based not 'oh look over there in that galaxy 9.3 billion LY away - there's some Cardasians. So what? It's meaningless. Us and them the Universe is sterile for all practical porpoises.

a reply to: one4all

I'll say this. You don't explain an improbable event (Breaks the laws of our physics) by adding layer after layer of other more improbable events then then say 'there, look at that'.

I was only talking about how his 'story' has certain tells the make me go 'hmmm'. Bob is very 'believable and charming' but that is not evidence of reality or veracity.

He tells a good story - not evidence of veracity or reality.

He is consistent and unchanging - not evidence of truth.

HTH

Let's put it this way. What if there was some super rich group of 'stage magicians' who figured out a way t make an S-4 base and have all that happen so that a smart guy like Bob is fooled? The saucer test and coronal discharge is a powerful drone and he is in the hanger and can't see it.

I'd say very unlikely but I suppose it could happen.

BUT it is orders and orders of magnitude MORE likely than the explanation that it is little grey men from ZR to thrill and excitement we hairy ape-like creature with bling which is what BL is believing. I mean who can BLAME him if these Billionaire-hoaxrs do a great job, like 10x the stage magician of Davide Copperfield?

You sound like you're saying you know something special. Well a lot of people talk, no disrespect, But they are all hat and no cattle, I think>? What about your take?

a reply to: Springer



I'm at the 50min(no commercials) mark, when did you get on?

ETA:

I like geremy as a person and enjoy his story telling but he might come across as rough and frankly older people might not hear him out because of his style.

I'm his uncensored talks he swears allot and over all is kind of rough, I don't mind his style but I could see others not enjoying it.

One thing I have noticed about all bobs interviews is, he seems to always have someone there to help him along in the questioning.

I understand being scattered brained, but it's also very strange.

originally posted by: Maverick7
a reply to: one4all

I'll say this. You don't explain an improbable event (Breaks the laws of our physics) by adding layer after layer of other more improbable events then then say 'there, look at that'.

I was only talking about how his 'story' has certain tells the make me go 'hmmm'. Bob is very 'believable and charming' but that is not evidence of reality or veracity.

He tells a good story - not evidence of veracity or reality.

He is consistent and unchanging - not evidence of truth.

HTH

Let's put it this way. What if there was some super rich group of 'stage magicians' who figured out a way t make an S-4 base and have all that happen so that a smart guy like Bob is fooled? The saucer test and coronal discharge is a powerful drone and he is in the hanger and can't see it.

I'd say very unlikely but I suppose it could happen.

BUT it is orders and orders of magnitude MORE likely than the explanation that it is little grey men from ZR to thrill and excitement we hairy ape-like creature with bling which is what BL is believing. I mean who can BLAME him if these Billionaire-hoaxrs do a great job, like 10x the stage magician of Davide Copperfield?

You sound like you're saying you know something special. Well a lot of people talk, no disrespect, But they are all hat and no cattle, I think>? What about your take?

Does this mean anything to you.www.youtube.com... at all.

a reply to: Springer

Didn't give you much time did he, jeez.

At least you got an ats plug in

Just in case anyone is still interested in the element 115 thing, here's a source for the prediction of said element in 1974.
kobra.uni-kassel.de...
Extract from the The Journal of Physical Chemistry Vol.78 No.19 [1974]

a reply to: MrRussell

Nice!!

This goes even further to illustrate that 115 was predicted and matched up with the real thing when it was made.

Back when bob was trying to push his 115 story I bet not very many people could teLl you how the periodic table works, even less now would be my guess. At the time of his news broadcast there were charts on high school science rooms that had 115 (unnamed) on it. He makes it out to have never been convinced of until B.L said something.

People say he knew the structure in written form, well no duh any junior in high school could have and could do so into element numbers that go on and on.

The 115 issues is such a big gaff in the story that the rest needs to be questioned.

I bet B.I did see something, but I bet it was an advanced drone with some stagecraft thrown in.

The long and short of it is the air force knew he would spill the beans and gave him exactly what he and his buddy John lear were looking for and sold the story with telling him when and where to look for a test flight.

ANY highly compartmentalized program would do the exact opposite of what B.I talks about.

There is zero reason to show him all the nonsensical information in the folders, why would tech working on a power source need unrelatedmedical data? It had no mention of anything related to B.L's claimed work.

As I already said, no nuclear scientists would be in the same room with a running reactor they didn't know 100% how it worked, let alone be cutting it open running.

The AF and nuclear industry are masters of remote manipulation of nuclear material and systems.

Last thing on 115, if they could do the impossible and have a chunk of 115 that didn't degrade almost immediately in to its decay products. It would be sooo soo radioactive if a human had it on or near their person, it would more than likely be a fatal exposure

a reply to: penroc3

I couldn't have said it better, in fact parts of it I did say. (no need to show a physicist, engineer the Biological and location data).

It's a huge TELL knowing our beloved but infamous John Lear.

Good point on the remote manipulation.

Also I said 'advanced drone with some stage magic thrown in'. I like your 'stagecraft term' better.

Kudos.

Oh, when I say something is a 'Tell' (poker term) I AM not saying it is EVIDENCE that BL-JL is lying or having a laugh with us or any of that. A tell is just an indication that something is amiss.

a reply to: one4all

Actually I am a very big Mantis Shrimp fan. I have a big painting of one by a great artist hanging in my bathroom.

I love that thing with his supersonic claw rap ability.

I don't quite get your point? Can you spell it out in English words and phrases minus the ellipses?

Thanks. I'll def pass that one on, It's gorgeous,

originally posted by: Maverick7
a reply to: one4all

Actually I am a very big Mantis Shrimp fan. I have a big painting of one by a great artist hanging in my bathroom.

I love that thing with his supersonic claw rap ability.

I don't quite get your point? Can you spell it out in English words and phrases minus the ellipses?

Thanks. I'll def pass that one on, It's gorgeous,

The Mantis Shrimp produces and manages a Neutral Dimension zone...….some of the Craft Bob has seen create a Neutral Dimension zone.....how could a man reproduce the N-D zone that the Mantis produces.Unfortunately the ellipses are my personal cerebral placemarkers , I rely on them for a specific task.


There are multiple methods of producing a Neutral Dimension zone....Supercavitating Torpedos is a good one to grasp the basic tenents of how a N-D zone benefits us when we travel in the atmosphere and under water and in space....there is one place we cannot use the N-D zone to acess and that is the solid earth….and this capability is already beyond theory and functional capability and is into the evolutionary stages and is an entirely different can of worms.

Probability of time synched carbon-based sentient, not too different (TSCBS-NTD) life in our own Galaxy right "now' - scant. Maybe 0.01%

Conservatively, our galaxy has 100 billion stars. Given your percentage above, that means that your "scant" 0.01% translates to only 100 million stars with sentient life. (if my math is right)

See? That's the problem with the Universe, the scale is just nearly beyond our comprehension. The Universe could be TEEMING with life, but doesn't mean we'd know it.

Actually I am a very big Mantis Shrimp fan. I have a big painting of one by a great artist hanging in my bathroom

Weird side note, I too have a painting of a Mantis Shrimp. I just picked it up at a Con in October. LOL.

originally posted by: Gazrok

Probability of time synched carbon-based sentient, not too different (TSCBS-NTD) life in our own Galaxy right "now' - scant. Maybe 0.01%

Conservatively, our galaxy has 100 billion stars. Given your percentage above, that means that your "scant" 0.01% translates to only 100 million stars with sentient life. (if my math is right)

Yeah, but we really don't know what that probability factor is, either. Is it 0.01%? Or 0.001%, or maybe a few magnitudes smaller? We really have no idea.

That's why the 'Drake Equation' isn't really that meaningful beyond being a discussion-starter. Don't get me wrong -- it's a meaningful discussion-starter; however, many of the actual factors entered in to get a result are truly just "guesses" based on a terribly small sample size of just one sentient civilization that we know to exist (i.e., us) which is not a good enough sample size for extrapolating data to be applied to the entire universe.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Right, but even at .000001% it's 100,000 stars with sentients (just in our galaxy). And this is still being VERY conservative with the stat factors....

That's why the idea of us being alone is nearly statistically impossible.



(technically, I suppose .000001% is 1000, as it would really be .00000001 as a factor, but still, I think you can see that it still means a lot of sentients out there....)

originally posted by: Gazrok
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Right, but even at .000001% it's 100,000 stars with sentients (just in our galaxy). And this is still being VERY conservative with the stat factors....

That's why the idea of us being alone is nearly statistically impossible.



(technically, I suppose .000001% is 1000, as it would really be .00000001 as a factor, but still, I think you can see that it still means a lot of sentients out there....)

My point is that we have no idea if that's a conservative factor or not.

I'd like to think it IS conservative, but the universe really doesn't give an damn about what "I'd like to think".