I can't imagine not having a national health service funded by taxes.

My God, people. Are we still living in the dark ages? We don't need taxes to pay for healthcare. All we have to do is sack other wealthy countries like Andorra and take everything they have and then bango! Health care for all that'll last about three months - done and paid for.

a reply to: 4003fireglo
You can do what you like in the US, but this thread tells me not everyone in the US likes the current system. Interesting reading, I thank my lucky stars I wasn't born in a US style system.

a reply to: jacobe001

True, but because its all about the money, an attempt to socialize medicine in the US and capping doctors fees would result in a huge shortage of skilled doctors wanting to work in the public sector. Its a lose/lose situation.

a reply to: TonyS
Where would those doctors go to earn more? The rest of the world enjoys 'socialist' tax funded healthcare.
Maybe they would bite the bullet and stop being so greedy?

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

"I want your time for free" strikes me as being greedy as hell, dude. Those doctors spent over 8 years in school and if they eff up it costs them everything. Seems to me they earn what they ask for and if someone can't pay it, oh well, not anyone's problem beyond the greedy sick person who wants treated at the expense of folks actually taking care of their own lives responsibly.

If I was in a room with some of you, my hand would never leave my wallet because y'all are thieves with staggering degrees of self importance and greedy entitlement. Self aware parasitism by choice rather than evolutionary adaptation comes to mind. Enjoy your hells, stay out of mine.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
Lol doctors in the UK seem happy enough with our system, are you a doctor? Do you have first hand experience to moan about wages or whatever?
Why are you criticising my nation's system? I'm not criticising yours, just celebrating mine because it has been so good for me over the years, stitched up or plastered up and free at the point of need.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Free! What are you going on about, go to any hospital or private practice and you will see the doctors parking area full of BMW, Audi, rolls Royce, Mercedes etc, they all have nice houses in expensive areas, enjoy many holidays every year...

They get subsidized by taxes, so a gp will get around 150 an hour and specialists get 3_400 an hour, some specialists get more again... You're way off the mark...

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

As they should.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

As they should.

Did I mention that's here in oz under our socialized health system.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Stop being greedy? That's a laugh. They would work for private hospitals and clinics not a part of the government system. There would always be two systems, just like education. There's the government run schools we call "Public Schools" and there are Private schools funded by the parents, usually wealthy people who can afford to do so.

a reply to: TonyS
Consultants work for the NHS and private hospitals, they do well, part time hours for the state or the healthcare company.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I would like to point out that my criticism in general of government does not indicate my approval of corporations. Corps can be every bit as dangerous and tyrannical as government, especially ones with seemingly-limitless funds & expertise. Yet they are easier to punish, as they are generally governed by a board that is interested in profit (ie: bad press = financial losses).

Government's hand is a bit harder to slap

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: TonyS
Where would those doctors go to earn more? The rest of the world enjoys 'socialist' tax funded healthcare.
Maybe they would bite the bullet and stop being so greedy?

Greedy !!??

They save lives and get no where near what some footballer

gets for kicking a ball around for a couple of hours a week.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I have a disease called Meniere's, it is a condition with no cure which results in deafness and permanent lack of balance.
It was undiagnosed until recently, I get 'whiteouts' like a blackout but white noise in my ears and white loss of vision like an electric shock, I'm still aware of myself just lose sense of sound, vision, and lose balance. Loads of scars from falling this year.

Before docs knew what it was I've had allsorts, from MRI scans to heart monitors, all paid for by my taxes over the years. Now I'm on a drug which keeps me stable ish so I can continue still working. Like a fool I thought I had another strip of the tablets left but nope, I'd run out, on a Friday evening. It is a drug which needs a doctor prescription so as my doc's was closed I rang 111 healthline. Friendly person, checked my name and stuff, then emailed the pharmacy my prescription to pick up in the next hour if I need to.

I am so pleased, honestly, last time I ran out I was collapsing within two days, got the scars to prove it lol.
So, just celebrating universal healthcare here, I think everyone should have it in the world. I can't imagine going bankrupt for healthcare bills...and I'm still definitely in credit with the NHS, I've paid many many tens of thousands in tax all my working life from age 16.

Universal healthcare rocks...and just saved my sorry ass with a phonecall...and it cost me nothing, not even the phonecall.

Over here in Norway I can't say I have ever had the thought "I'm paying for other people's medicines". The way we look at it, is that everyone should be able to get the same medical treatment, regardless of the size of their wallet.

Really.

It's easy for someone who is "sitting pretty" to regard anyone struggling to pay their medical bills as "stupid", "lazy", "mentally challenged" or any other distinction linked to the concept of "if only you worked harder".

In my world view, very often the biggest difference between a rich man and a poor man, is that the former is overpaid, while the latter is underpaid.

I don't think a talkshow host making $15 million per year - basically a modest yearly salary each DAY has earned that through working 1,000 times harder or better than a minimum wage person making $15,000 per year.

It seems like in USA in particular, you either get paid next to nothing for wiping rich people's asses (or cleaning their pool), or get thrown money after because you are in an overhyped job.

There is of course the matter of value - When someone gets paid millions to act in a movie, they get their cut of a billion dollars. Good for them.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Over here, it is possible to "pay your way to the front of the line" by using private health care.

The way I see it, an increasing number of private clinics means all the good doctors and nurses will leave the public healthcare system - leaving less qualified personnel (or foreigners who barely speak Norwegian) for "the unwashed masses".

At the end of the day, I don't agree with the view that health care should be a commodity along the lines of cars. Let rich people buy their Bentleys - but everyone should get the same level of health care.

Imagine if nobody put out your house fire - because getting firemen to do that was a luxury for the rich.

I guess you should have worked harder.

no idea how it works....

free, lmao.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: manuelram16
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
Wonder what is the Medical Malpractice conditions in your neck of the woods, are people & lawyers sue-happy for anything that smells like malpractice ?, over here according to a neurosurgeon buddy of mine he pays over half his income to insurance companies

People don't really sue here in the UK, again, different cultures.
I was given the wrong drug years ago for something and suffered pain for an extra few days as a result...no way was I going to sue the hard working doctor who made the mistake. I lived, just was in pain for longer had she given me the correct drug.
It would take a lot for me to sue anyone who had the right intentions just messed up after a 12 hour shift..

NHS negligience lawsuits reach £1.4 billion
www.bbc.co.uk...

Most of the time, these are being caused by junior not following the proper procedure or relaying a change of state of condition to senior staff. Traditional teaching methods require them to have seen other staff encountering a patient with
a particular condition and seeing a senior member of staff doing the procedure and for them to remember it afterwards.

A Modern day solution proposed is to have an application that will list the treatments required for a particular problem.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

id gladly pay more into the NHS
in fact Id be happy if they took all the money they use for bombs and bullets and put that into the NHS instead!

But yes I agree, isnt it wonderful you work from 16 or 18 up until you are 75 and then you retire and you spend 1/3 of your life without having to work and hopefully your government can pay you the pension you have worked hard for!

thats if they havent spent it on bailing out banks or paying for an EU exit !

a reply to: burdman30ott6

So okay we all stop paying taxes.

Now please do tell me who will fund the roads, police, military, emergency services etc. and the people who staff them?

You need medical treatment, through no fault of your own you're unemployed, you develop an easily treated but severely debilitating illness. You have no money for said treatment, so you'll be happy to lay down and die because you cannot afford some pills or the doctor to diagnose and prescribe them? Even though a public medical system would of got you the pills and kept you alive for a couple of weeks when you got a new job....

Same for everything else.

You want a road to drive on to get to work, you going to pay for one to be built just for you?
Same for all the roads that get you where you're going? Or maybe you think they will magically spawn out of thin air for you?

Should the police be privatized? You have someone break into your house and tie you and your family up, good chance you will die if no one saves you. Neighbours call the cops and they get told "Sorry we'd like to help but Mr burdman30ott6's subscription has expired. When he pays $100,000 to cover the cost of sending a swat team we'll send someone over straight away."
Would you be okay with that?

Seriously, please do explain how the world works in your Tax free vision.

Maybe we don't need taxes to go. Maybe we need to cut politicians salaries and unnecessary government spending and have reasonable taxes.
I cannot myself see how a modern civilized society can function without tax short of returning to a every man for himself wild west life and all the joys that come with that.
Can't imagine it'll be much fun driving your brand new muscle car along a dirt track Mad Max style and making your own gasoline for it and don't even get me started on going to the toilet and sewer systems.....

But yes, please tell us what your alternative is.

a reply to: AtomicKangaroo
I share your sentiments exactly, well put
This whole dog eat dog idea doesn't seem like an American dream I would want to live in...it seems tragic and barbaric, but their house their rules, if it makes them happy then it's up to them.

I couldn't dream of a fellow citizen going bankrupt because the poor bastard happened to get cancer...the idea of that simply chills me.

I will defend the NHS and our healthcare because it is a compassionate service worth fighting for!

However what I can not condone is our governments liability for delivering said NHS and its sister groups and other benefits derived from the NHS

My friend an elderly lady from glasgow who suffers dementia , has to complete forms by herself , and the one for her main benefit is 90 questions long, isnt accessible and she doesnt get any help to complete it.

a 90 question form is hard enough for anyone without any cognitive disability
for her to have to complete that alone , without assistance is shocking.
She said that half the time she cant even remember who she is never mind having to fill out a form so she can be eligible for her benefits!

Our government are resonsible for forcing people to have to go through this, she said that 90% of the patients in her group havent completed the forms yet as its too difficult to do it alone and they have to wait for a support staff member to find free time to help them as they already have so much other work to do during their sessions form filling isnt one of them!

The rest in her support group have also stated they feel like giving up when it comes to these forms , and if all it takes is one form to make them stop then what does that say !

They need help which isnt there, they need to complete a huge form without assistance and its been made this way , so people give up and dont claim!
Yet here we are moaning at benefit claimants and tax avoidance , when super corporations are let off with billions in unpaid taxes, maybe if our government stopped sleeping with mega corp and chased them for payment to benefit the people we wouldnt be in half the trouble we are !

Anyway two very big problems for the UK , the NHS , and tax avoidance !