Brexit is a Mess, how do we Fix it.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

a reply to: andy06shake
I've never argued against immigration, we need it, many industries are absolutely dependent on foreign workers.
We will still have immigration after Brexit because we need to, only this time the UK will decide who comes in, no automatic entry for only white nations from the EU. People from other parts of the world will be able to enter under whatever scheme is brought in, unlike the EU rules which are essentially racist by excluding non EU nations.

I voted leave because I don't want the UK to be ruled by a foreign political bloc. That's got nothing to do with immigration, just sovereignty.
A good 3rd of my social group is made up of EU nationals, good friends who were happy to learn that they are protected here now.
How about ask your beloved EU to offer the same guarantee to Brits over there?

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Again the immigration issue depends on the type of Brexit which is in no way assured or written in stone to date.

You dont know what will happen after Brexit because the Tory bastards either dodge the question, outright lie, or just bump their gums about other bullcrap.

We do not even currently have a British Bill of Rights so don't be so sure as to what you will be entitled to because the fact is we simply do not know.

a reply to: andy06shake
Only thing I'm sure of is that immigration will continue because we absolutely need foreign workers.
No government is going to ban foreign workers, it would be economic collapse, and if you are trying to peddle that as potential doom then I say no, that's ridiculous.

I bet you a pint that there will be an easy fast track visa system put in place so our crops don't wither in the fields etc.
Come on man, the cries of doom are equally unknown yet you make out you know it will happen.
...and the immigration argument was just a silly dig to make out leave voters are racist. The EU in its very nature is racist by only being a white nations club.

Link from another *Brexit* thread.....

www.msn.com...

Jeremy Hunt told party conference delegates he had voted to remain in the EU, but now supported leave because of what he called the EU’s “arrogance” during Brexit negotiations.

He said the EU seemed to want to “punish” a member for leaving, and likened their tactics to the Soviet Union.

“The lesson from history is clear: if you turn the EU club into a prison, the desire to get out won’t diminish, it will grow – and we won’t be the only prisoner that will want to escape.

Words of wisdom?

originally posted by: eletheia


Link from another *Brexit* thread.....

www.msn.com...

Jeremy Hunt told party conference delegates he had voted to remain in the EU, but now supported leave because of what he called the EU’s “arrogance” during Brexit negotiations.

He said the EU seemed to want to “punish” a member for leaving, and likened their tactics to the Soviet Union.

“The lesson from history is clear: if you turn the EU club into a prison, the desire to get out won’t diminish, it will grow – and we won’t be the only prisoner that will want to escape.

Words of wisdom?

In response, Baiba Braze, the Latvian ambassador to the UK, said the comparison was misguided as the Soviets "killed, deported, exiled and imprisoned 100 thousands of Latvia's inhabitants after the illegal occupation in 1940, and ruined lives of 3 generations, while the EU has brought prosperity, equality, growth, respect".

Hunt the #### making Boris look like a competent Foreign Secretary.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

In response, Baiba Braze, the Latvian ambassador to the UK, said the comparison was misguided as the Soviets "killed, deported, exiled and imprisoned 100 thousands of Latvia's inhabitants after the illegal occupation in 1940, and ruined lives of 3 generations

There's time yet ..... early days.

The 'common market' which the UK joined, turned seamlessly into a 'union'

and the screw was further tightened.

Frau Merkle has gone very quiet since there was talk of an EU army.

While the EU has brought prosperity, equality, growth, respect".

Well he would wouldn't he ..... 5/6th lowest financial contributer

getting back more than they put in. I'm sure we would all be very

happy with those terms!!!

Here's how important the UK is to the European Union

Britain's exit from the European Union means that one of the bloc's biggest economies will stop making contributions to its budget.

This raises questions as to how long the U.K. will continue to pay its share of the budget and how can the EU fill the gap once Britain has officially left.

The U.K. has already said it will not pay a 60 billion euro ($64.73 billion) bill to leave the bloc – money that according to the EU would be used for the U.K.'s share of commitments to the pensions of its workers and U.K.-based projects that have already received funding approval.

At the same time, some member states have already told Brussels they are not willing to pay more into the EU budget to compensate for the U.K.'s departure.

The Danish Minister of Finance, Kristian Jensen, also voiced a similar opinion. He told the economic newspaper Borsen that Denmark will not pay more into the EU budget after Brexit. He added that the budget should in fact be cut.

All we know for the moment is that Brexit will lead to a reduction of revenue in the EU budget," an EU official, who didn't want to be named due to controversy around the topic, told CNBC.

The same official said that member states have not officially voiced their opinions on the future of the EU budget. "It is too early," he said.

www.cnbc.com...

a reply to: eletheia

The EU army is a good idea. Germany, France, the UK stand zilch chance against Russia on their own. Together they can do the job. The age of little feudal states has gone, except in the minds of little Englanders

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: eletheia

The EU army is a good idea. Germany, France, the UK stand zilch chance against Russia on their own. Together they can do the job. The age of little feudal states has gone, except in the minds of little Englanders

The eu army would be radioactive dust within 20 minutes of a war with Russia.

The fix to this Brexit nonsense is to press reverse and go back to the good old days of full EU membership. We had the best deal in the EU, out of Shengen and keeping our currency, pretty much in control of our own borders and destiny. We need to go back to the pre referendum days and forget all about Brexit nonsense. We have a great life in the UK and we need to protect what the EU has done for us by staying with our brothers and sisters in Europe. We should be coming together rather than falling apart and dividing up into nation states. Ethno religious nationalism has never been a good idea, we need to join together and live as one.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Too right, especially if China went in with the Ruskies. When you look at it like that an EU army is essential. Italy wouldn't stand 20 mins like Germany, or France wouldn't on their own. Only by coming together might they put up a basic front against China and Russia combined, especially if Trump pulls his protection army out of the EU. Russias technological edge over the EU military wise combined with Chinas manpower and industrial production is virtually unmatchable even when combined in an EU army. On their own EU states are sitting ducks in a field of a pair of very hungry foxes

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

The EU army is a good idea. Germany, France, the UK stand zilch chance against Russia on their own. Together they can do the job. The age of little feudal states has gone, except in the minds of little Englanders

*Little Englanders* as you call them always come off best when their back

is against the wall.

Who would have predicted we escaped being part of a *German Empire*? We

escaped .....only to be sucked back in by stealth.


Very many Americans....Australians..... and Canadians are English immigrants

I'm sure we will have allies there?

I dunno, massive amounts of foreign immigrants flooding in looks MORE of a mess...

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

If you're happy with transferring sovereignty to a foreign body and being dictated to by unelected Commissars then fair enough that's your prerogative....unfortunately there's still a bit of true British steel left in some of us.

..... except in the minds of little Englanders

Ridiculing your own countrymen and women....shameful.

A little guy from Austria used to call us that, look what happened to him.
You'll hand it all to them without any semblance of a fight, you're not descended from Neville Chamberlain are you?

Or maybe Quisling or Petain?

Seriously, if the EU was prepared to respect our Right to Self-Determination and agree reasonable terms for our departure then I fail to see anything that would prevent us from having some common defence policy especially bearing in mind our continued membership of NATO.
We'd still maintain close links with European nations intelligence and security forces due to common threats posed by terrorists and other nations.

Being anti-EU doesn't make us anti-European and we still have a shared responsibility to protect and defend each other.

Why would that change?

The fix to this Brexit nonsense is to press reverse and go back to the good old days of full EU membership.

I would rather chew my own bollocks off...but then again, that is what they want isn't it, to neuter us.

You seem to be taking in more and more of this globalist nonsense.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The eu army would never be used in a big war with Russia. It'll only be used to "restore order" in places like Catalonia or some small member state thinking of leaving the eu.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
The fix to this Brexit nonsense is to press reverse and go back to the good old days of full EU membership.

Good old days??

What planet are you on?

There WAS life before the EU

The rate of Purchase Tax at the start of 1973, when it gave way to VAT, was

25%. On 1 January 1973 the UK joined the European Economic Community and

as a consequence Purchase Tax was replaced by Value Added Tax on 1 April 1973.

And there was no tax on services at that time which are now clobbered by VAT.

We had the best deal in the EU, out of Shengen and keeping our currency, pretty much in control of our own borders and destiny. We need to go back to the pre referendum days and forget all about Brexit nonsense. We have a great life in the UK and we need to protect what the EU has done for us by staying with our brothers and sisters in Europe. We should be coming together rather than falling apart and dividing up into nation states. Ethno religious nationalism has never been a good idea, we need to join together and live as one.

All that including our own currency was only ever a temporary measure,

Ireland was forced to re vote to take the EU and that would have happened

to the UK once the EU claws were firmly enmeshed.....OPEN YOUR EYES....

you'll buy ANYTHING.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

The EU army is a good idea. Germany, France, the UK stand zilch chance against Russia on their own. Together they can do the job. The age of little feudal states has gone, except in the minds of little Englanders

*Little Englanders* as you call them always come off best when their back

is against the wall.

Who would have predicted we escaped being part of a *German Empire*? We

escaped .....only to be sucked back in by stealth.

Yeah, We escaped being part of Germany because we stood alone and fought off those pesky Germans. When I say alone I mean, With the Poles, The Dutch, the French, The Czechs, The Russians, The Canadians, The Australians, The US, The Jamaicans etc etc...oh, and that 2.5 million strong standing army of India who were fighting the Axis powers around the globe. Other than that lot we stood up to the Germans alone.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

During The Battle of Britain and The Blitz there were about 8,500 Polish in the Air Force.
A small number of Polish ground troops carried out defensive duties in parts of Scotland.

Polish number gradually increased as the war progressed and increased significantly with the German attack on Russia.

Obviously prior to this Russia offered absolutely no support to the UK and its allies.

The Netherlands was neutral until Germany invaded it in 1940 after which a trickle of Dutch escaped to the UK and signed up to fight....but not a significant number at all.

After France surrendered because they didn't want their country being destroyed De Gaulle escaped to the UK and repeatedly pleaded with the French via BBC radio to join the fight against Germany by coming to the UK and joining his Free French forces.
By mid-1940 a massive total of 7,000 Frenchmen decided to join De Gaulle.

People could do worse than read up on the reluctance of Frenchmen to join De Gaulle's Free French forces and on the remarkably low numbers of French people who were actively involved in The French Resistance and considerably more people joined The Vichy Milice and Waffen SS.

But still The French hate us for helping them.....

There were approximately 3,000 Czech soldiers in the UK post-Dunkirk.

The Russians were neutral until Germany attacked them and provided little support to the UK during The Battle of Britain and The Blitz.

The Americans were neutral until Pearl Harbour and the subsequent German declaration of war on them.
Prior to that the USA was quite happy making massive profits out of the war by supplying both sides.

Our Commonwealth friends and Allies provided enormous support as the war progressed and their support and sacrifice will never, ever be forgotten.
But during The Battle of Britain and The Blitz when the UK was under direct attack their numbers were relatively small, for obvious reasons.

I would never wish to disrespect the efforts and sacrifices made by the literally millions of men and women of all nationalities during WWII.
WWII was probably one of the few 'just' wars and the UK would never have won without the support of many nations across the globe and we should be able to recognise, acknowledge and respect that.

But, and it is a big but, for a period of time the UK did more or less stand alone in the fight against Hitler and his Axis allies.
The vast majority of continental Europeans either could not or in many, many cases would not support the UK - that is an undeniable fact that many seem uncomfortable acknowledging.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Bitcoin was an early player ..

a reply to: Freeborn



Thanks for that and I would just like to add for the benefit of Soloprotocol

that they (the Poles) were fighting alongside us, as allies, for their

OWN freedom and soverenity

The occupation of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union during the Second World War (1939–1945) began with the German-Soviet invasion of Poland in September 1939. Throughout the entire course of the foreign occupation, the territory of Poland was divided between Germany and the Soviet Union (USSR) with the intention of eradicating Polish culture and subjugating its people by occupying German and Soviet powers. In summer-autumn of 1941 the lands annexed by the Soviets were overrun by Germany in the course of the initially successful German attack on the USSR. After a few years of fighting, the Red Army drove the German forces out of the USSR and across Poland from the rest of Central and Eastern Europe.

Both occupying powers were equally [hostile to the existence of SOVEREIGN POLAND, Polish people, and the Polish culture aiming at their destruction. Before Operation Barbarossa, Germany and the Soviet Union coordinated their Poland-related policies, and future destruction of Poland

About 6 million Polish citizens—nearly 21.4% of Poland's population—died between 1939 and 1945 as a result of the occupation, half of whom were Polish Jews. Over 90% of the death toll came through non-military losses, as most of the civilians were targeted by various deliberate actions by Germans and the Soviets. Overall, during German occupation of pre-war Polish territory, 1939–1945, the Germans murdered 5,470,000–5,670,000 Poles, including nearly 3,000,000 Jews

en.wikipedia.org...(1939%E2%80%931945)


The soverignity which we want to regain in Brexit which was so hard fought

for ..... and which will eventually contribute to the downfall of the EU.