Brexit is a Mess, how do we Fix it.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

If You want your independence so much why does your country feel the need to have a stranglehold on Scotland, Wales, and NI? Not allowing someone to leave the household because you can't afford to go it alone?. Yeah, True independence eh?

Some people have very short memories......

Scotland held a referendum and they (Scotland) decided to

remain in the UK.


Unlike the EU who are using a stranglehold and anything else they can conjour

up to stop the UK from leaving the EU.


Do you not see the irony in that?

It is a complete mess, but you can't keep having referendums until you get the right result. The way the u.k has been treated by the EU since we voted out is nothing short of criminal.
We've been bullied and villified for wanting out.
I for one can't wait to leave eventually.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

If You want your independence so much why does your country feel the need to have a stranglehold on Scotland, Wales, and NI? Not allowing someone to leave the household because you can't afford to go it alone?. Yeah, True independence eh?

Some people have very short memories......

Scotland held a referendum and they (Scotland) decided to

remain in the UK.


Unlike the EU who are using a stranglehold and anything else they can conjour

up to stop the UK from leaving the EU.


Do you not see the irony in that?

How has the EU tried to stop the leaving?

The delays in negotiations and the time frame have been set by the UK government.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: rhynouk
It is a complete mess, but you can't keep having referendums until you get the right result. The way the u.k has been treated by the EU since we voted out is nothing short of criminal.
We've been bullied and villified for wanting out.
I for one can't wait to leave eventually.

Of course we can have another referendum. Farage stated before the referendum that in the event of close remain vote he would keep campaigning for another referendum. The example he gave was 52-48.

Democracy means people are allowed to change their minds.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
You know what grinds my gears, Democratic vote? Murdoch has backed the winner of every "Democratic vote" for thirty years. Democracy is dead, The media decides who wins an election, just as the media, especially Murdoch's media, pushed for Brexit.

Wake up. There is no such thing as Democracy ffs.

This is what Democracy in the UK looks like.

lazy mate.

I don't even think Murdoch owns those papers haha.

But if it isn't "thick leavers being made to vote out by Murdoch" its "The Russians" or "Racists" or "Old people"

Get your head out of the sand. The people who voted leave did so based on a ton of reasons, each particular to themselves. All this defamation of the majority of voters is a stupid smear y the leaver elite to try and de legitimise the actual outcome of a democratic referendum.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

The fact that the majority of the establishment is kicking and screaming about the results, newspapers are using fear mongering and attempting to turn people against Migrants (again) surely that shows you that for once this was a real democratic vote. We voted out AGAINST the establishment politicians and media that is real democracy now, as a Brexit voter, I want to see my voice and my will carried through and have a real Brexit. Trade deals will come in the future, we know they will we buy so much from the EU bloc that refusing trade would be a drop in sales not just for big business but also small.

I wish people would get their heads out of the idea that the EU is the be all and end of the world. You have countries or member states, wanting to leave but now afraid to leave because they see the stranglehold that the EU has over countries attempting to leave and the bullying tactics they use when that country (my country) has a weak leader. If only we had someone like Churchill in there who'd give them the two fingered salute. Even if (should be when) we leave on no deal the EU will either offer an extension on talks or sign up to a deal in the near future, their market wouldn't tank by anymeans but many companies are already kicking up a stink about no deal and now that there are more people demanding a Brexit PM the EU is starting to move on some of their stuff apparently because they worry a real Brexiteer would see No Deal as a real option and not just a threat.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Well said. I always laugh when people say the leave voters were uninformed or mislead like we're mindless idiots who have no brains between our ears. I've been anti-EU since I started reading about their strong arm tactics and their constant threats to smaller nations when votes don't go their way. Everyone I know who voted to leave did so for more than just immigration but yes that was a factor, I'll admit that but at some point these people need to realise the more they say "Oh they had no idea what they were voting for" are only pushing more people toward Brexit because they feel insulted that their intelligence is being questioned.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I never pay attention to this sort of thing because both sides would do the same. Remainers are now demanding a second vote and doing anything they can to think of a reason and if the second vote came they'd and they lost again it'd be another corrupt vote etc. etc. it won't end. The only difference between the leavers losing and demanding another vote is we would've been laughed off by the media, by the press, no attention, no interviews would be given after a month or two of the result the establishment would have a new vote ten times over until they got the result they want. Most remainers just refuse to admit it.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The British Government has totally messed this up......

Of course they have....and by design.
Cameron was a Remainer.
May was a Remainer.
Johnson was a Remainer till offered a chance to jump ship which he did, purely for reasons of self-aggrandizement.
Corbyn has become a Remainer.
Cable is a Remainer.

All the political parties and senior civil servants are Remainers.
For one reason only; to maintain the status quo so that they can continue bleeding this country dry and lording over the ordinary British people who they continuously treat with contempt and disregard.

Cameron was backed into a corner and had to grant a referendum.
He and his cronies never expected for one minute that the British people would vote to come out of the EU, but we saw through all the bollocks and bull# that they could throw our way in Project Fear.

Cameron jumped ship like the rat he is and Theresa May was handed the poison chalice.
Ever since then this country has been rudderless without anyone at the helm giving leadership and direction.

And Project Fear rumbled on subtly sowing seeds of dread and trepidation.
And now it has been ramped up full and the masses are crapping themselves.

Why?
We've faced bigger dangers and threats....and always won.

The EU is a bloated, bullying entity that has no respect for democratic process and the right to self-determination.

Why should we pander to these unelected autocrats who seek to punish the British people for having the temerity to want to govern themselves free from the shackles and dictates of Brussels?

We signed up to join a Free Trade Association, we didn't want political union then and we certainly don't want it now.

Personally I'd tell the EU that all negotiations are off until after 11pm March 29th 2019.
Then we'll start talking, but constructively and with no thoughts of punitive measures to the UK to discourage other EU members seeking to regain their sovereignty.

I knew we'd be in for some hard times....so what, that's all I've ever really known here in the North East.
But short term pain for long term gain will be worth it for my daughter and grandson.

P.S.
And all talk of a second referendum is undemocratic.

Figured this could make for a interesting discussion.

Bit of an understatement!

You can tell who the Remainers are in this thread. They are the ones with all the insults, fear-mongering and generally talking BS, while the Leavers are quite well mannered and provide rational insight.

originally posted by: Dwoodward85
a reply to: ScepticScot

I never pay attention to this sort of thing because both sides would do the same. Remainers are now demanding a second vote and doing anything they can to think of a reason and if the second vote came they'd and they lost again it'd be another corrupt vote etc. etc. it won't end. The only difference between the leavers losing and demanding another vote is we would've been laughed off by the media, by the press, no attention, no interviews would be given after a month or two of the result the establishment would have a new vote ten times over until they got the result they want. Most remainers just refuse to admit it.

As opposed to now where no major political party Will support a second referendum for fear of having the pro leave press turn on them?

You had pro leave papers like the Mail calling judges enemies of the people just for rulling that parliament gets a vote.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Great words....couldn't have said it better.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
I think you'll find if there has to be a hard border it'll be a British border on Irish soil. The IRB/IRA had every right to pop the evil empires bubble and kick the bastards out by force. My guess is you know nothing about Irish politics or the about formation of Northern Ireland.

Ireland will be United again once this plays out.

The only ones who wish to remain part of the UK in the north are the redneck Billy boys aka The Klan. The moderates only want what's best for their children these days. The Days of Britannia's divisive politics in Ireland are well and truly over.

If You want your independence so much why does your country feel the need to have a stranglehold on Scotland, Wales, and NI? Not allowing someone to leave the household because you can't afford to go it alone?. Yeah, True independence eh?

You see, Britain has never been an independent country, It's always relied on the blood and sweat of foreign slaves around the world to keep it afloat.

I wish the English would have a referendum on going it alone. as in, England, on its own, making its own way in the world, without the need to use it's colonial slaves as it's iron fist. Then again, The thought of true independence scares the #e out of Westminster. They know they would just be a small fish in a large pond and the thought of it terrifies them.

Well, thanks to the tories, The people of the UK are about to find out just how terrifying. Even yer man Reece Mogg says everything will get back to normal...In about 50 Years.

I know a heck of a lot more about Irish politics then you, so 69% of Northern Irish are 'red neck billy boy klan members', that sounds awfully like something that well known intellect George Galloway once said... but perhaps someone could explain to me since when sectarian bigotry like what you just droned off was acceptable on ATS? racism ok too?

a reply to: Freeborn

There is absolutely nothing undemocratic about a second referendum. Giving people the opportunity to change their minds is an essential part of democracy.

a reply to: ScepticScot

So do we have a second general election every time its a close vote?

Or do we just have one when the result isn't the one you wanted?

We voted out, and out we must go.

Its a chance to start shaping this country into something we can ALL be proud of free from the restraints of the EU.

First order of the day should be getting rid of that shower of #e in Westminster and reforming our outdated political and electoral systems.

Instead of whining on and on its time to move forward in a positive and even progressive manner and for the British people to work together.

a reply to: ScepticScot

And if that one goes the other way then what? Best of 3? Democracy works by having a vote and sticking by the results, if you aren't mature enough to have voted the way you meant to first time round then maybe you shouldn't have voted at all.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Well done chumps. You can blame May all you want, The fall lies with the gullible pricks that believe the pro-Brexiters lies in the first place. You, You caused this mess.

Be calm Chicken Little it'll be alright on the night , no deal is the only real way forward.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot

So do we have a second general election every time its a close vote?

Or do we just have one when the result isn't the one you wanted?

We voted out, and out we must go.

Its a chance to start shaping this country into something we can ALL be proud of free from the restraints of the EU.

First order of the day should be getting rid of that shower of #e in Westminster and reforming our outdated political and electoral systems.

Instead of whining on and on its time to move forward in a positive and even progressive manner and for the British people to work together.

Even if going our becomes more and obviously the wrong decision.

I think you might have the cart before the horse. The time to reform our incredibly undemocratic system is before leaving one of the few institutions that acts as a check on our government.