Brexit is a Mess, how do we Fix it.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: biggilo

The message on the bus i.e an extra £350 million to The NHS. This extra £350 million was AFTER we came out of The E.U. and stopped paying the £billions we do into The E.U. budget.

We are still paying into The E.U. until March 2019.

And will be paying them for a long time after that with a "divorce bill" somewhere in the region of £40 Billion to be payed over years

I would not have chosen to start from here. But given we are here I would..

Sack May, bin Chequers and do a Canada+ type deal. Indicate alternative is revertion to WTO rules and address a FTA with the EU later, we keep the 39 billion. Mean it, don't bluff.

Unfortunately that's not going to occur. The majority Remain conservative parliamentary party doesn't believe in brexit and doesnt much care about it's grass roots or voters opinions. They think we are all imbeciles and will have forgotten this by next election.

Instead, one of the 2 #shows below is going to occur:

A) May attempts to railroad chequers through, fails due to rebellion and there is a general election. Tory party ruptures. Remainers rejoice. 2nd ref shenanigans and collapse of faith in British democracy. Unpredictable long term consequences.

B) May succeeds in ramming chequers through making the UK a helpless rule taker of the EU. Everybody unhappy. Tories stay together but are electoral toast as grass roots depart. Labour govt at next election. EU laughs.

Gloomy assessment.

a reply to: justwokeup

The Chequers deal is just so bad.

I honestly wonder if she is doing it deliberately hoping that its going to give her the excuse to delay our split or even a second referendum.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: biggilo

The message on the bus i.e an extra £350 million to The NHS. This extra £350 million was AFTER we came out of The E.U. and stopped paying the £billions we do into The E.U. budget.

We are still paying into The E.U. until March 2019.

Yes I know that, I campaigned as part of vote Leave and I work for a brexiteer MP.
I was talking about how remoaners like to think we were fooled into voting how we did because of things said during the campaign when in reality a large proportion of us have been opposed to the EU most of our lives and would have voted out even if it meant feeding our families on boiled grass afterwards.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The E.U. sell £288 billion of goods to the U.K.

Are you seriously saying the The E.U. are prepared just to ditch that ?

I think it's only a mess if the government makes it a mess.

Full disclosure, not British but half my family is and live in England and Wales mostly.

Eu membership is more about the perks of membership. Leaving just means, not getting those perks. But other countries that aren't in the EU still survive and thrive. It's all about Treaties, trade agreements, Tarrifs, and travel. UK is still a world power, banking center, business center. None of that changes. Then look at two countries specifically that aren't in the EU and thriving, Iceland and Norway.

It's not all doom and gloom. Every country makes and deals in treaties and tarrifs and trade agreements and travel arangements. They're all fine.

originally posted by: biggilo

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: biggilo

The message on the bus i.e an extra £350 million to The NHS. This extra £350 million was AFTER we came out of The E.U. and stopped paying the £billions we do into The E.U. budget.

We are still paying into The E.U. until March 2019.

Yes I know that, I campaigned as part of vote Leave and I work for a brexiteer MP.
I was talking about how remoaners like to think we were fooled into voting how we did because of things said during the campaign when in reality a large proportion of us have been opposed to the EU most of our lives and would have voted out even if it meant feeding our families on boiled grass afterwards.

Good news then, because it's looking like it could well be boiled grass all round.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The E.U. sell £288 billion of goods to the U.K.

Are you seriously saying the The E.U. are prepared just to ditch that ?

Well right now thats what it looks like is going to happen.

If we have no deal, we have no customs deal with the EU so imports/exports become subject to different rules and tariffs so its going to have a massive impact on that trade.

A bad Brexit would be good for the EU, it will act as the best deterrent to other nations in the EU looking to leave, rightly or wrongly.

Barnier studied at a Grandes ecoles, he has been taught his whole life that before entering a negotiation you decide whist is the 'correct' resolution and stick to it, to move from this position is wrong because you have already decided what is correct.
He will view give and take as being sloppy and unprepared and will find it irritating: British believe in give and take as being the proper way to negotiate. At the last minute if he feels a deal isn't going to happen he will settle on one.
This is how people who have been through the Grande Ecoles system negotiate, De Gaulle was exactly the same.
The establishment in the UK know all this but the media want a second referendum so don't talk about it and instead are trying to scare us by making us believe things are going badly when really this is how it was always going to go from the minute Barnier was selected to negotiate.

Brexit in a nutshell. You've booked into a clinic in Switzerland to end your life because you are in a vegetative state. Someone has found a cure for your condition, Ah, # it, The clinics booked now.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: justwokeup

The Chequers deal is just so bad.

I honestly wonder if she is doing it deliberately hoping that its going to give her the excuse to delay our split or even a second referendum.

Crossed my mind but I don't give them that much credit.

a reply to: biggilo

The establishment in the UK know all this but the media want a second referendum so don't talk about it and instead are trying to scare us by making us believe things are going badly when really this is how it was always going to go from the minute Barnier was selected to negotiate

What you mean it was always in the plan for the Breixt minister to quit and the Foreign secretary to though all his toys out of the pram and roast the PM over her plan?

Yeah I don't think so, everyone knows this entire negotiation has been a utter farce thats been nothing but bad for the UK.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Brexit in a nutshell. You've booked into a clinic in Switzerland to end your life because you are in a vegetative state. Someone has found a cure for your condition, Ah, # it, The clinics booked now.

HAHA!!!!

One of the funniest things av ever read on ATS!!!

AMAZING!!!

The timing couldn't be better for Boris, Mogg and co. One would think Brexit is looking like a great deal for the elite tax dodging scum.

European commission to crack down on offshore tax avoidance

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

No not really but I am pretty sure I'm not the only one who knows about Barnier and his background, it isn't the first the UK has had to negotiate with him.
Our media like to say it has all been a farce because they want us to think that and change our minds.
Think what I just said about Barnier and look at what has happened and what is happening now.
Whatever deal we get now isn't going to be set in stone, we can get out and renegotiate later.
We are the biggest market in Europe for German cars and French wine and Barnier is only a civil servant, have some faith.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The E.U. sell £288 billion of goods to the U.K.

Are you seriously saying the The E.U. are prepared just to ditch that ?

Or you could look at it this way. The UK buys £288 billion worth of much-needed goods from a shop. Just over half the UK forced the shop to close for no other reason than they didn't like the colour of the guy who owned the shop.

The Eu will be quite happy to sell their goods to another 60 million people elsewhere who appreciate it.

Well, as a nation we voted out.
The Brexit negotiations have been a mess, in part, because the majority of the MP's are pro EU and don't wamt to give the people what we voted for.

If remain have their way, we will be tied to the EU indefinitely and the sham of our democracy will be plain for all to see.

No deal Brexit suits me just fine.

Yes there will be challenges, but, it is the only way to deliver on what the referendum was about. (Cameron and his ilk honestly didn't think they would lose, hence the lack of a proper plan and I am quite certain that there are a ton of back channel comms between remainer MP's and the EU which seek to further undermine the whole thing).

Saying no to Globalism ain't fer sissies.

Stay strong and suck it up for a bit and you'll be stronger than ever before you know it.

Those of us here in the U.S. that support the initiative against trade imbalances understand that we're gonna have to accept some inconveniences and cost increases for some things but it will be a boon for manufacturing and economic strength down the road.

originally posted by: The GUT
Saying no to Globalism ain't fer sissies.

Stay strong and suck it up for a bit and you'll be stronger than ever before you know it.

Those of us here in the U.S. that support the initiative against trade imbalances understand that we're gonna have to accept some inconveniences and cost increases for some things but it will be a boon for manufacturing and economic strength down the road.

Try telling that to the re-moaners that don't like the result and want to overturn a democratic vote!
2nd vote might spark civil war , at least mass rioting.

Spockets joke - classic

We should definitely get the pots ready for boiling grass . Fried dandelion roots are not bad actually.
All this economy and business worries , but we're the people of Britain , we, are not trade or tariffs or borders , or commanders of big business , most of the large are global traders- let them sort it, we are the people . Boiled grass is just fine , but in fact the food will probably be cheaper and without the CAP that's a boon . The containers will just come on differerentships if it has to be . and that got to be a significant gain for we the people - we buy food . BMW won't give a sh**e about food prices but we do. And We wont complain if petrol is less .
We should keep it simple Simon, have a stiff upper lip , and just leave .
The rest of the world is plenty much bigger than Europe , and it's not like Europe get to lean on them telling its other non-geographically or plitically linked trade partners not to do business with us . And it's not like we cannot be on a par with them - that's the destination , and theres other trade agreements in place .
They told some EU businesses doing trade with Iran to ignore Trumps imbargo , but it's unclear who is bluffing or not .
If we're really in the dog mess we can call up Trump , and get Farage to do it .
No qualifications to say any of this , but hey ho , don't get yer knickers in a twist is an age old saying . Stay calm and carry on