"...not everyone who gets their period is a woman..." Reality or Mental illness??

a reply to: shawmanfromny

Its a mental illness. They stopped classifying it as such because people like to hurl that term as an invective and there is huge political chaff flying from the tail of the topic

originally posted by: watchandwait410
a reply to: neo96

I know it is not the same but how about breast implants that some woman believe that they are not the right size.

And Viagra... surgery and pharmaceuticals separate but equal... idk lol

Its the same. Body dysmorphic disorders have varying symptoms and severity.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: shawmanfromny

The mainstream medical community all agree that it’s not a mental illness.

Period. End of story.

Men don't have periods. End of story.

That doesn't appear to be strictly true;

'Is A "Man Period" a Real Thing? "Irritable Male Syndrome" Might Not Just Be a Sexist Joke'

Menstruation. It's a natural monthly process, albeit an uncomfortable one; premenstrual syndrome, or PMS, usually presages the dreaded "time of the month." [...]

However, PMS symptoms apparently aren't limited to those with ovaries; males can be just as susceptible to a monthly "man period" that's dubbed men-struation irritable male syndrome, or IMT.

Mic Article

Doesn't appear to be strictly true?

I've never had to go buy a box of tampons for myself.

originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: fiverx313

Well EXCUSE ME if my OPINION offends you, but ATS encourages opinions being expressed. By the way, I could care less how a person lives their life and if you read my thread, you'll notice that I MENTIONED THAT.

People should not be treated with contempt, just because their lifestyle is different than someone else's. They should be free to do whatever they want, as long as they don't disrespect or hurt anyone. Personally, I could care less with a woman who dresses and acts like a man, or a man who dresses or acts like a woman. They're free to live their life as they choose.

You're right, I'm NOT a "medical professional," but like I stated in my post, I've been suffering from anxiety and depression for years. It's not only MY OPINION, but that of MANY Americans, that TRANSGENDER people are mentally ill and need counseling and treatment.

Suicide rate and suicidal tendencies among transgender persons are considerably high compared to general population.

The suicide attempt rate among transgender persons ranges from 32% to 50% across the countries. Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Funny how "some" medical articles completely ignore the possibility that these people are mentally ill and that perhaps THIS is the reason for the high suicide rate. It's MY OPINION that the real reason for this, is the ongoing turmoil in their brains from mental illness. My opinion MATTERS, because as a man suffering from mental illness, I genuinely want these people to be happy in their own skin. They need counseling and medication, not hormone treatments and sex-reassignment procedures.

This is what baffles me - on the one hand, you talk about the need for professional medical help - and on the other hand, you dismiss what the professional medical community says.

Here’s the thing: While counseling and medication is often used when dealing with someone with gender dysphoria, it DOES NOT solve the dysphoria. It does help with the depression and anxiety associated with the dysphoria, but it DOES NOT solve the dysphoria. The ONLY thing that really helps solve the dysphoria is to transition to the point the dysphoria is lessened. What that point is, depends on the individual.

The VAST majority of people with gender dysphoria will tell you that they didn’t feel happy in their own skin until they transitioned. The help they got from the professional medical community was to be encouraged to proceed with that transition.

The transgender people who are the happiest overall are the ones who transitioned early enough (before the permanent effects of puberty), so that their physical body matches almost exactly with their brain. If they have the support of their family (they most likely did if they started the transition that early), they don’t have nearly as much trouble with anxiety and depression. These are the ones who live normal, successful lives, just like everyone else. They hold down jobs, maintain friendships and romantic relationships, and even have families.

There was a time when the professional medical community believed homosexuality was a mental illness. They know better now, just like they know now with gender dysphoria.

You can dismiss the professionals if you want, but then maybe you shouldn’t be going to them if you feel that way.

a reply to: kaylaluv

My son is gay and being sexually attracted to the same sex should've never been considered a 'mental illness' in the first place IMO. The "holier-than-thou" attitude from religious zealots and the church were probably the reason for this attitude back in the day. Once again, it's my opinion, that there's more going on with people with gender dysphoria, because of their need to alter their appearance to ease their depression. You can't change who you are genetically, no matter if you 'transition' by taking hormones, or go through with sex reassignment surgery. It's my opinion, that they're putting a band aid on the real issue...mental illness. What bothers me, is the fact that doctors and psychologists who DO believe transgendered people suffer from mental disorders, are said to be spreading spurious anti-trans facts, mainly by trans advocate groups. Seems to me that these groups pick and choose what studies conform to their beliefs. Does this attitude benefit the trans community, if they don't want to consider the opinions of other health "professionals?"

Study: Transgender Youth More Likely To Be Diagnosed with Mental Disorders By Rick Nauert PhD

Researchers discovered that In nearly all instances, mental health diagnoses were more common for transgender and gender-nonconforming youth than for youth who identify with the gender assigned at birth, also known as cisgender youth.

psychcentral.com...

Mental health risk higher for transgender youth

A new study suggests that transgender and gender non-conforming children and adolescents may be more likely to develop depression and other mental health conditions, compared with individuals whose gender identity matches their assigned gender at birth.

The research was conducted at the Kaiser Permanente Southern California Department of Research & Evaluation in Pasadena. Study co-author Tracy A. Becerra-Culqui, Ph.D., and colleagues recently reported their findings in the journal Pediatrics.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

a reply to: shawmanfromny

Your links just prove what I said. Gender dysphoria can cause anxiety and depression. It’s the anxiety and depression that’s considered the mental illness - not the dysphoria. Your links also specifically stated:

Additionally, the team notes that many transgender and gender non-conforming individuals are subject to prejudice and discrimination, which can cause stress and potentially lead to mental health problems.

You are right about one thing - there is a small fringe group of medical professionals who claim gender dysphoria is a mental illness. Funny enough, this small fringe is also known for being religious extremists. These are the same guys who still think homosexuality is a mental illness, too.

a reply to: shawmanfromny

Unless Men have started to bleed profusely from their penis, for a week, i have to go with mental illness.

And if indeed any dude is experiencing such symptoms, get to a doctor fast.

Sympathy for mad bastards is simply counterproductive really, especially when entertaining there delusions.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: shawmanfromny


People should be free to be who they want to be.

Period.

First they need to be freed from outside interference...only then could you actually decide fully who you want to be, and that has just never happened on this rock.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: shawmanfromny

As long as I don't have to pay for it, I don't really care what people do. My thought is when sex change becomes medically possible then that's the point it no longer is a mental illness. It is not unrealistic to believe that.

A much more pressing question in my mind concerns children. Pediatric gender dysphoria is often encouraged by parents and treated with puberty blockers. Is this child abuse? I believe in most cases it is. Then you need to ask if the parent that encourages this is mentally ill. If the child becomes damaged by these efforts, then they do have an illness.

We should examine these conditions in light of facts like: how likely are they to commit suicide when they pursue this behavior?

You are so right about the kids. There are a lot of parents that thrive on drama and seek attention for themselves through their children. What better way than to state your kid has Pediatric gender dysphoria.

I have a sister in law that has devoted her life to the "conditions" of her children, playing the long suffering martyr. She has done untold damage to one of her kids, having him on meds he didn't need for diagnoses he didn't have.I believe it would be easy for a parent to influence a kid to believe they should be the opposing gender, particularly if they were a tomboy or a male with feminine traits. It could be a munchhausen by proxy sort of thing. If in fact they really do want to change their gender they can wait. Can you imagine what playing with hormones in a developing child could do? I can only guess,

originally posted by: snarfbot

originally posted by: mysterioustranger

originally posted by: shawmanfromny
This topic is getting a lot of attention. People are still debating whether gender dysphoria is a mental illness or not. The World Health Organization (WHO) at one point did classify it as a mental illness, but later removed 'Gender Dysphoria' from the list of mental disorders, sometime in 2018. Why did WHO do this?

The WHO expects this move to help remove stigma and make transgender people more socially acceptable (although this idea says something about people with mental illnesses not being socially acceptable). In turn, removing stigma could help to reduce violence against trans people, says Vanessa Victoria Crespo, counsellor and advocate at the New York City Anti-Violence Project (AVP).

www.refinery29.com...

Hey, I get that some people are confused on who they are and struggle to be comfortable in their own skin, but does that mean they don't have a mental illness? I've been suffering on and off again from anxiety and depression for many years and it's no picnic. However, I realized that I had issues and seeked professional help and counseling. I deal with my depression, by taking medication and working out. I've never cared less about being 'stigmatized' or what other people thought of me, when they found out I had some 'mental' issues. I just wanted to be well. So, tell me, is this a 'well' person who made this statement?

I am a nonbinary trans menstruator ― someone with a uterus that bleeds monthly, but who identifies outside of the fixed categories of male and female. Because of that, I have to navigate the challenges of getting my period every month in a world that refuses to acknowledge that not everyone who gets their period is a woman, and not every woman gets their period.

The representation of periods in the media has never matched the reality, but that’s even more true when you’re a trans person just looking for something that doesn’t scream, “You’re a W-O-M-A-N.”

www.huffingtonpost.com...

I really am sympathetic to this person's viewpoint and struggles, but the fact is, she is a woman. It's my opinion and that of many Americans, that transgenderism is a mental illness, because trans people are manufacturing their own kind of reality, complete with their own set of pronouns and identity labels. People should not be treated with contempt, just because their lifestyle is different than someone else's. They should be free to do whatever they want, as long as they don't disrespect or hurt anyone. Personally, I could care less with a woman who dresses and acts like a man, or a man who dresses or acts like a woman. They're free to live their life as they choose. That shouldn't mean that I should be viewed as a 'bigot' or a 'hateful' person, just because I feel that they're suffering from a mental illness. Why should I be forced to use certain labels for them and be viewed as "disrespectful" if I don't? Certain transgender people want people to "ask" them what pronoun to use, when they are addressed. But, what if I forget to ask, or mistakenly call them by the wrong pronoun. Why do trans people view this as being rude or disrespectful, when it was just an honest mistake, from someone confused by this whole concept?

If you must ask which pronoun the person uses, start with your own. For example, "Hi, I'm Alex and I use the pronouns he and him. What about you?" Then use that person's pronoun and encourage others to do so. If you accidentily use the wrong pronoun, apologize quickly and sincerely, then move on. The bigger deal you make out of the situation, the more uncomfortable it is for everyone.

www.glaad.org...

Shouldn't adults be treated like adults, or instead like emotionally weak, little kids whose feelings get hurt easily? How about addressing them by their name and if you make a mistake with their pronoun, why can't this be viewed simply as an honest mistake, instead of a sign of contempt? I believe author, Ryan T Anderson, nailed the problem with the following statement:

But we lose the ability to effectively call out bigotry when all disagreement is condemned as bigoted—and when lies are told in the process.

As I explain in “When Harry Became Sally,” contrary to the claims of activists, sex isn’t “assigned” at birth—and that’s why it can’t be “reassigned.” Sex is a bodily reality that can be recognized well before birth with ultrasound imaging. Cosmetic surgery and cross-sex hormones don’t change the deeper biological reality.

www.theamericanconservative.com...

This is exactly what I and many Americans believe, but we're considered "disrespectful" because we simply disagree. Anti-trans bigotry exists and it's wrong. You should still treat all people with respect, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to accept every cock and bull story out there. If you can't accept that you have a mental illness and instead blame other people and the body you were born with, for all your troubles, then maybe, just maybe the problem is inside your head.

I was supervisor of an ERT male team member...had all male parts...yet had a fistula (opening) and monthly menstrual cycles.

Born male with complicated internal female organs. He had one hell of a life, especially trying to explain it to Drs.

I insisted he bring me proof to support his days off requests. He did from U.S. Navy Drs.

It is real....he led a disturbed and confused life...lonely as well....
MS/EMT

Okay so does the existence of this legitimate genetic anomalies mean anyone in the world with normal sex organs can decide willy nilly whether they want to be their actual sex or another or one they simply invented just because? Because that's what the options was talking about those people with male or female parts deciding they weren't what the are essentially, not some rare sex disorder causing them to possess both sexes reproductive organs in whole or in part.

Thanks, but I honestly can't answer that. Will be following this thread...

a reply to: mysterioustranger

I'd bet you can.

Another way to look at it: does the exception somehow extrapolate to influence the rule?

There are a million exceptions to any rule. For instance, you'd likely run with scissors if those scissors were needed for some emergency of a life safety nature where seconds count. And who cares about drinking from the milk carton when its the last drink?

I think morphology is a good way to look at it. Essentially, what would an expert in morphology define you as? Genetically, its would be very clear. Archaeologically it would be very clear. Man and woman have varying morphology that is relatively easy to differentiate for anyone moderately versed in such things.

On the other hand, apart from scientific evaluation, we have a liberal art known as psychology. While it tries to appear scientific, and is rather sciency in many ways (even being science from time to time)...it is a liberal art that relies more on perception and subjective reasoning than science (for example, how do you prove someone has depression clinically other than talking about how they feel, which is anything but science?)

Psychology asserts that there is more than one gender (well, some psychologists). This is an assertion that cannot be scientifically validated, and actually goes against what is currently known and validated. Excepting some outliers, which all have clinical requirements for diagnosis. An archaelogist may or may not be able to correctly identify someone from this enormously small subset of the population, but a clinician absolutely would (and has the diagnostic materials in place to do this within a framework that relies on the scientific method).

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: shawmanfromny

Your links just prove what I said. Gender dysphoria can cause anxiety and depression. It’s the anxiety and depression that’s considered the mental illness - not the dysphoria. Your links also specifically stated:

Additionally, the team notes that many transgender and gender non-conforming individuals are subject to prejudice and discrimination, which can cause stress and potentially lead to mental health problems.

You are right about one thing - there is a small fringe group of medical professionals who claim gender dysphoria is a mental illness. Funny enough, this small fringe is also known for being religious extremists. These are the same guys who still think homosexuality is a mental illness, too.

Dysphoria is, itself, a statement of deviated mental status. Dysphora is a state of unease or dissatisfaction with life.

That said...people can be dysphoric in a non-clinical sense. So you are right. However, the irrational nature of being dysphoric over appearance that isn't directly related to social pressure would seem to indicate some sort of obsessive behavioral traits that would absolutely be considered a mental illness clinically.

In other words: normal people don't fixate on the minor details of their lives to a point that it derails the rest of their life.

a reply to: shawmanfromny

i try as hard as i can to follow the ideas of live and let live.

I live in a city in NY that is very LGBT friendly, its not uncommon to see people with rainbow flags on their house and all that stuff. I honestly dont get it really, i have never had the compulsion to tell people i like to have sex with women and fly a flag outside my house so no one forgets it.

ANYWAY

i dont know anyone that is trans as far as i know, it is an interesting social issue and i have watched a lot of people on youtube who are just to hear what they have to say. I agree that there are people out there who have real identity issues but i think alllllot of people just want to be special and reap the benefits of being in a 'special' class of people.

i unfortunately research how a man becomes a 'woman' and i was shocked at what they have to go thru to maintain the illusion and of having female body parts, its pretty horrific and it seems like self mutilation and punishment.

if i went to my doctor and told them i think i was supposed to be born with one arm and i want him to cut it off they would admit me to the psych ward.

but tell them i feel like a woman and i want them to remove my sex organs and create a wound in my body that will never heal so people can stick a penis in my body and thats gravy. makes zero sense.

bring up all sorts of medical ethics questions, i dont care if you like men, women or like to dress as witch ever but when you start mutilating your body that is where i would draw the line.

self mutilation is a clear sign of mental illness.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It’s not exactly a minor detail when your physical body doesn’t match your conscious identity. I’m not talking about someone who wants to be thin, but isn’t. I’m talking about your core identity as a person. Gender is part of core identity. Core identity is important. Very important.

a reply to: penroc3

Do you want to make it illegal for a person to transition physically according to their gender identity? Do you want them to be forced into a mental asylum?

What kind of therapy and/or medications do you recommend to solve their problem? Do you have any track record of success with this supposed treatment? How many people with gender dysphoria have you cured?

So if the WHO removed depression and schizophrenia from their list of mental disorders to avoid stigmatization

Does that then mean they dont exist anymore? Or that they arent still mental disorders?

This is all pandering nonsense

a reply to: kaylaluv

Conscious identity isn't objective.

When you have software that is incompatable with your computer, you change the software....not the hardware.

To slap a Mac sticker on my Dell and call it a Mac doesn't make it a Mac, even if i get 1000 people with liberal arts PhD's to agree with me. There is no clinical support outside of the subjective realm of non-science. And in that way "clinical" is loosely applied.

ETA: I should clarify that pain is what your patient says it is. If you are unable to align the mind with the body, there is no reason to not try to align the body to the mind. The limit I have with this is demanding the world to participate in this illusion. Its no less damaging to my psychology to try to force myself to express beliefs I don't hold. As an example: fake boobs look fake. Don't get mad when people recognize this.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I’ll ask you the same questions I just asked Penroc.

What do you do when the software can’t be changed, but the hardware can be adjusted - not perfectly, but adequately? Just throw the whole thing away? Is that what you’d suggest?

a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

mental illness is just phenomena we don't understand yet. Who knows, people with schizophrenia who hear voices might actually hear telepathic aliens or whatever.

I am just saying that when we think about something in certainties, out of nowhere we get our minds blown to a newer more radical truth... Nothing is what it seems.

That is just my experience of life and the craziness that arises.