Transgender Man....gives birth to baby

a reply to: kaylaluv

I'm not up for beating the smarts into any child for whatever the reason, gender dysphoria or otherwise.

I'm talking about a tap on the arse and a few harsh words is sometimes a requirement no matter what the gooberment guidelines suggest.

Fact is the government don't have children, they have citizens that do, and know more really about touching them up, than bringing them up.

Do you consider this gender dysphoria to be genetic by nature?

a reply to: kaylaluv

Please note the subtleties of the English being used in your article compared to mine. Yours uses suggestive language like "suggests","may", and "should", while mine uses definitive words like "is" and "are". In addition, your is just a guideline, while mine is dealing in real facts and figures from real-world cases.

That was a nice try, but you did not refute my sources in any credible way to make me change my mind.

a reply to: lakenheath24

Mine is a factual medical article. Your article is obviously biased, and therefore, not extremely reliable.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: kaylaluv



Do you consider this gender dysphoria to be genetic by nature?

I consider it an unfortunate condition that we don’t have all the facts on yet. There is some evidence that it is a neurological (not psychological) disorder which occurs during fetal development. Regardless, it is not something a child “chooses” to suffer from, as it is quite distressing for them.

a reply to: kaylaluv

OMG...Are you mental or something. The Ostrich method of arguing is not very persuasive. How would you even know if my links are factual or not....you haven't even read them! LOL

Guidelines aren't facts...they are just guidelines. Maybe you should make like Lindsy Buckingham and go your own way now.

a reply to: lakenheath24

You presented opinion pieces ...

EDIT ... and even so ...

The guidelines, described as the world's most comprehensive, recommend against genital surgery until a person reaches adulthood, but warns against unnecessary delays in other treatment such as drugs to prevent breast development in trans boys and voice deepening in trans girls. Previously some guidelines have declared that no child should be given hormone treatment until they are aged 16. But Professor Telfer warned withholding treatment could prove extremely distressing for the child, and the right time to receive it was when the young person entered puberty, between the ages of 10 to 14 depending on the child.

a reply to: lakenheath24

I won’t stop sharing true information. Sure, there may be one or two doctors out there not following the guidelines, but 800 patients with doctors not following any guidelines? Bull crap.

Stage 1 treatment – usually taken in early adolescence – involves the administration of puberty "blockers", which suppress the hormones responsible for puberty, and are entirely reversible.

Stage 2 – taken in mid-to-late adolescence – involves "cross-sex" hormones.

Trangender Kids in Landmark Court Win

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: kaylaluv

Please note the subtleties of the English being used in your article compared to mine. Yours uses suggestive language like "suggests","may", and "should", while mine uses definitive words like "is" and "are". In addition, your is just a guideline, while mine is dealing in real facts and figures from real-world cases.

That was a nice try, but you did not refute my sources in any credible way to make me change my mind.

That's because kayla's article is based on science, and speaks to what we know based on studies.

Your piece is based on belief and opinion, and thus, the air of certainty.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Unlike you two, I read your article. If you read mine you would note that they were not filed in the Opinion section. Perhpas you could disprove those articles without some guideline. The same guideline that recommends all kinds of powerful drugs for little kids with ADHD for example. Im sure the society for the treatment of ADHD has some guidelines too, written by some drug company to treat an 'ism.

And BTW, I see you advocate the State telling parents how to raise their children. Nice.

a reply to: kaylaluv

If it is a neurological disorder which occurs during fetal development stage it may be better to treat the situation with appropriate hormone or even gene therapy before the baby is born thus negate the need for such invasive surgeries in the long run.

Don't know how that may affect the mother all the same.

I imagine it is indeed quite a distressing situation be it neurological or psychological.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: Gryphon66

Unlike you two, I read your article. If you read mine you would note that they were not filed in the Opinion section. Perhpas you could disprove those articles without some guideline. The same guideline that recommends all kinds of powerful drugs for little kids with ADHD for example. Im sure the society for the treatment of ADHD has some guidelines too, written by some drug company to treat an 'ism.

And BTW, I see you advocate the State telling parents how to raise their children. Nice.

LOL, not only did I read your article, I gave you another link from another article CITED in your article that explained the very simple point that Kayla was trying to explain, i.e. the ranges for treatment.

"Filed in the opinion section"? Is that the distinction between scientific fact and opinion for you? LOL.

Here's your two articles again:

More than 800 children given puberty block drug on NHS to aid future sex change operation - Daily Express

The Daily Express is a UK tabloid.

Boom in transgender children seeking treatment]Boom in transgender children seeking treatment - Stuff

Stuff seems to be a news aggregator based in New Zealand.

Neither are from medical or scientfic studies.

Both say exactly what Kayla said they did ... do you understand the difference between hormone blockers and hormone treatments?

a reply to: andy06shake

One question ... how will we be able to ask a child about their identity when they aren't even a person yet?

If there is a problem treating 10 year olds, seems there'd be one treating fetuses ... right?

a reply to: lakenheath24

Further, from your tabloid article:

Young people wishing to undergo a sex change are at first carefully psychologically assessed before medical tests determine how far into puberty they are.

If medics are convinced the patient is both psychologically fit and physically suitable - only then will they be prescribed hormone blockers.

Did YOU read the articles you linked?

Go back and read my post with the original comments and links. There are 2 distinct comments for 2 distict articles. Kayluv tried and failed to conflate the 2.
Regardless of the source....facts were presented. Numbers and ages. I say refute those numbers. You are letting the conversation drift of course by not refuting the specific numbers in the article. Get it? Refute the numbers given.




a reply to: Gryphon66

originally posted by: lakenheath24

Go back and read my post with the original comments and links. There are 2 distinct comments for 2 distict articles. Kayluv tried and failed to conflate the 2.
Regardless of the source....facts were presented. Numbers and ages. I say refute those numbers. You are letting the conversation drift of course by not refuting the specific numbers in the article. Get it? Refute the numbers given.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Already done that, already addressed your spurious post.

Facts were presented? Maybe, maybe not. There were certainly no link to actualy studies.

Refute numbers posted in a tabloid? Why? Kayla explained what your own articles mean ... and I linked a statement from your own article refuting your "point."

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: interupt42

You call it a delusion; they call it their identity.

Medical and psychiatric science agree with them.

Thanks for the convo.

Nobody is talking about what or HOW they identify, we covered this. Nobody is stating that they don't identify as male,female,dog,cat,etc. Nobody denies that.

The question is if you identify as a cat ,male,female, dog,etc does that make you a cat ,male,female, dog,etc?

The answer is NO. For example the female that converted to a male like the individual being discussed here, at the end of the day that Male is still a female because they have female chromosomes and body parts. Hence He/She was able to get pregnant.

Or do you believe that it was a real man that had that baby with man parts?

a reply to: interupt42

There have been plenty of posters in this thread who have talked about HOW people identify, denied that transgendered folks have any right to determine their own existence, etc. Don't pretend that there hasn't been, that's absurd.

The answer is yes, according to medical science, gender identity can differ from biological sex. This information has been repeatedly linked (aside from being patently obvious.)

The spurious examples of humans identifying as certain animals or mythological beasts that you seem so proud of are just that ... fallacious reasoning.

The fundamental example of which is that you persist in the knowing error of conflating gender with sex and gender identity with anatomy.

a reply to: RowanBean

sex and gender are two different things.

Now you are trying to play jiu jitsu word games.

The evidence suggests that transgender brains reflect the genders they identify as. That's biological.

keyword suggests, plus physical evidence suggests that transgenders male are still female (chromosomes,body parts) such as the male that got pregnant in this thread.

Nobody is arguing what they identify as. A person who identifies as a cat doesn't mean they are PHYSICALLY a cat.

a reply to: Gryphon66

So do you believe that it was a real man with man parts that had that baby?

I look forward to you dodging the question or telling me how complex its to answer

I will make it simple for you.

Yes, males can get pregnant.
No. males can't get pregnant.