WATCH: Two Transgenders Blow Out Girls In State Meet

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Gryphon66

when you say "obviously flawed girls and boys division"...to what do you refer? What flaw?

Simply dividing competive groups by sex (particularly in high school) is not working. As we have seen, particularly in the case of male-to-female athetes.

Evolving understanding about sex, gender and gender identity necessitate evolution in other areas ... that's all I mean.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Makes sense, I'd like to see the idea fleshed out.

a reply to: ketsuko

I've not seen a disparity in gaming between men and women, save for maybe game type being more geared toward general aptitude (my wife has no interest in call of duty because she doesn't like shooting things...its not in her bailiwick...and there are games I just won't play as well).

That said...im from the school that won't consider bowling a sport. So considering gaming a sport is just beyond my ability. LOL

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It takes some good teamwork and excellent situational awareness aside from the obvious twitch skills.

It takes some thought, but people get downright competitive over it. It's got to be as much a sport as chess.

a reply to: Gryphon66

When you say "evolving understanding", i feel compelled to point out that the understanding isn't of reality and fact. Its understanding human psychology. Sexual classification is something that can even be done post mortem. And a transgendered person will be classified based on standard science related to sexual classification. A burned corpse...identified the same way. A corpse delivered to the morgue that is transgendered will have that denoted on their documentation by the ME, because it is relevant to classification. When we die, any beliefs we have regarding gender are only memories to those we leave behind...scientifically we are classified by our biology.

Which speaks kind of to Burds point that turning over the entire system because of an evolving understanding of psychological conditions doesn't seem to do a service to the others who use said system.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
It's got to be as much a sport as chess.

You're not helping the case....

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You could also look at sports where mastery is more subjective and judging is involved.

Gymnastics, ice skating, etc., although again you get into physicality in the sense that certain feats just aren't possible to certain sexes and scoring is based on difficulty of stunts attempted and completed.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: pavil

The assumption that all male-to-female athletes have a physical advantage is just that ... an assumption. It follows hand in hand with the resentment that some folks feel towards gender identity being added to civil rights protections (as we see here.)

My entry point into this discussion was to look at measures of physical attributes as the basis of classiffication into divisions into competitive sport. That's still my position.

I've presented studies here that show that the hormonal treatments that a male-to-female trans athlete have result in physical changes that increase equality in physical prowess ... but that's after several years.

The cause celebre here is the two trans girls in CN that came in first and second on Monday. I think that further consideration could be made in high-school sports because of the period of the hormone treatments.

However, State governments, the IOC, the NCAA and other groups hold a different opinion.

The difference seems more apparent with highschoolers, since, I'm assuming, most don't start their hormone treatments prior to puberty. I'd be curious to see the level of performance based on how early they take and start hormone treatments.

Yes, not all MTF athletes will always beat girls. That being said, at the elite or top levels, fractions of a percent make the difference. That's why it appears we see it happen more in Highschool, the edge is still there it seems.

There isn't a great way to solve this issue. In sports where your birth sex give you a built in genetic advantage, that doesn't seem fair to me.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

To me, a sport is mainly about allowing people to express their competitive nature, compete against others and dominate and win. Chess does ... in none physical way, but the competition is intense.

a reply to: pavil

Pretty much this.

I spent my senior year in high school competing against times in the form charts working hard to shave tenths or hundredths off my times to take the top spot or keep it all season.

Go up from high school, and the timing gets even tighter between success and failure. I assume you've watched the Olympics and seen some of the photo finishes in just about any race? Sometimes, it's fractions of a hundredth of a second.

It doesn't take much of an advantage, and then go back and watch the transgender girls and try to tell me they don't have a whole lot of natural built-in advantage from being genetic boys.

a reply to: ketsuko

Martial Arts has competitions for moving with proper form through predesigned "dances" that are centuries old.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yes, we'll be taking son to some of those in the near future.

I am by no means ultra conservative can be liberal on some issues, it really cracks me up that the leftist liberal progressives can push the science behind one issue and totally ignore the science on another.

I also support transgender people but this is a travesty.
I don’t think you’ll hear anyone here defending this travesty.
I wonder does the transgender who wins have any conscience about winning this race


Do they allow this in the Olympics?

What we need is a third category for transgender

Or they should race with a handicap

That’s the only solutions to this, I can think of.

originally posted by: putnam6
I am by no means ultra conservative can be liberal on some issues, it really cracks me up that the leftist liberal progressives can push the science behind one issue and totally ignore the science on another.

Not only that then if they support this then they should support a transgender woman getting into a boxing ring with a man.


Or on a football field.

I'm sorry but this is now becoming absolutely crazy. Does anyone else around 50 feel like saying "stop the world, i want to get off"?

I'm all for eqaulity/live, let live..except in sports. This is where I have to draw a serious line, I don't give a rats ass about hormone treatments or whatever, there is no way anyone will convince me it's fair competition.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

This is the way of modern progressive social justice, you give a group an inch of rights and they go on to take an entire mile which ultimately impacts the rights of another group. In this case womens rights.

Actually this is a sneaky way for men to beat women....pretend to be them and then beat them, I don't agree with this at all. And women should not be too quick to accept this, this level of tolerance is self-defeating, literally.

I would suggest that one of these beaten women take this to court, let the supreme court decide it, I think I know what the courts decision will be.
That the law be fair to all.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: MountainLaurel
a reply to: Gryphon66

The !st place GIRL was very gracious considering she has no choice.

To bad her fellow team mates weren't as gracious when they stole her win.

So, it turns out that what the other girls feel isn't important, but what you feel about it?

Okay.

Did you even read what she wrote ? She was happy for THEM, but the "rules" sucked for HER, is basically what she said. What else is she supposed to say in this insane culture she's been FORCED to accept.

Dear ATS Readers, Writers,

a reply to: RowanBean

Hi RowanBean,

In Soviet Russia they can.

Russia has been a Democracy for quite some time... "Soviet Russia" died in the 1990's mate.

In Soviet Russia they could...

This is the most stupid stuff in track & field for some time...

I knew that my leaving the USA almost 6 years ago was a wise move.

This news story only proves it...

Pravdaseeker