WATCH: Two Transgenders Blow Out Girls In State Meet

originally posted by: olaru12
Transgenders should only compete against other transgenders.

You don't see many females who have transgendered to males beating other males. They should just have to compete with their "born as sex". That is fair and ethical.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'm cherry-picking??? You just tried to prove that all atheltic competions involving trans-folk are lopsided based on one video!!!!

Yeah, there pretty much is a scientific consensus that gender identity is not pathological. If I need to link statements from the AMA, APA, etc. again, I would, but, lets get real ... you aren't interested in that.

I posted previously on the XY/XX sexing model. It's not exclusive and it doesn't prove any of your claims here about lopsidedness.

You're trying to argue against the concept of transgenderism/differing gender identities. That's really off-topic.

What is not off topic is to note that trans folk are in sport around the world and they are going to continue to be.

Now, if you want to continue to use this topic as a context for your own negative beliefs about transgender folks, be my guest, but it's quite easy to see your bias in the matter. You're not worried about fairness, you believe that transfolks are mentally ill and that's that.

With all respect ... so what?

a reply to: PhatalError

Here you go...since you may not be seeing the links included....ill post a couple here for your review:

opentextbc.ca...-id1303451

www.livestrong.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: olaru12
Transgenders should only compete against other transgenders.

You don't see many females who have transgendered to males beating other males. They should just have to compete with their "born as sex". That is fair and ethical.

Why is it fair and ethical?

The lack of empathy the TG "females" have for the other women they are competing against tells me that these 2 aren't right in the head. Certainly shows a lack of integrity and grip on reality to believe they actually won fair and square. Maybe they "feel" like women, but apparently not very nice women, most of us can see why this is unfair.

originally posted by: MountainLaurel
The lack of empathy the TG "females" have for the other women they are competing against tells me that these 2 aren't right in the head. Certainly shows a lack of integrity and grip on reality to believe they actually won fair and square. Maybe they "feel" like women, but apparently not very nice women, most of us can see why this is unfair.

And if they are dead set on this, then they needed to be in a special race just the two of them separate from every other category because they aren't competing unaltered.

originally posted by: EternalShadow
I don't know what's crazier...

That this is actually happening, or that people are trying to find a solution to encourage, include and reward mental illness.

Unreal.

YouTube has an event going this month called #ProudToCreate, basically giving out awards and special privileges to creators just for being gay.

They tried to force it for the first few days, automatically linking you to the videos when you go the homepage of some of the most cringiest narcissistic agenda driven garbage you can watch. After people started calling them out for their bias, because it's no secret that YouTube astroturfs what's trending and long time creators have been getting the shaft, along with a like/dislike ratio of 40k to 100k, they silently backed off and are trying to pretend like it didn't happen.

People are just tired of having politics forced on them. The comments are pretty hilarious.

a reply to: Konduit

Is that going to be in my YouTube feed for the whole month?

a reply to: Gryphon66

www.stuff.co.nz...
www.floelite.com...
tucson.com...
www.cagepotato.com...
www.golfmagic.com...
www.huffingtonpost.com...

How many more examples from this 0.3% of society which is transgender from high level sporting events which only a small fraction of the overall population qualify to compete in to begin with would you want to see before acknowledging that there is absolutely evidence that the playing field is horribly unlevel with these transgendered competing against the normal field?

a reply to: Gryphon66

It's fair as they are competing against their genetics. There is a genetic and physiological difference between the sexes. If there wasn't, we'd be seeing more female to male transgenders winning against all males in physical competitions. It's always the boys who transition that beat the females they compete against.

Fair implies a balanced playing field. That's why there are weight classes in some sports.

Tell me why it's fair and ethical to have transgenders compete against their trans-gendered Sex and have an advantage simply because of their former sex.

Not all sporting events are like this but track and Field for example, surely are, Archery or skeet, probably not.

I doubt you ever see a 20 year old trans-gendered male beat a female in gymnastics all around. They would have an advantage in the vault though for sure.

a reply to: ketsuko

It's been like that for the past few days, and it was suppose to be going all month long. But it looks like they dropped it today.

For more on this story ... how did the other girls feel? Let's ask 'em.

Coaches, Parents Question Policy For High School Transgender Athletes

RHAM sprinter Bridget Lalonde finished third in the 100-meter dash just behind Yearwood at the State Open Monday and didn’t take issue with transgender runners. “To be honest, I think it’s great they get a chance to compete and as long as they’re happy, I guess there’s not that much I can do,” she said. “The rules are the rules. The only competition is the clock because you can only run as fast as you can run.”

and on the counter-side ...

“I think it’s unfair to the girls who work really hard to do well and qualify for Opens and New Englands,” said Glastonbury sophomore sprinter Selina Soule, who finished sixth in the 100-meter State Open final Monday. “These girls, they’re just coming in and beating everyone. I have no problem with them wanting to be a girl.”

Hmmm ... what does the law in CN say?

The CIAC follows the state statute, which defines gender as gender identity and not the biological sex of the person. Athletes are required to update school records to have their paperwork reflect the gender with which they identify. The CIAC also mandates that school officials verify the athlete’s gender identification and ensure “that the expression of the student’s gender identity is bona fide and not for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage in competitive athletics.” The CIAC bylaws go on to state that students cannot participate in nor try out for gender specific teams that do not match their gender identity. And once “the issue of gender identity has been addressed by the student and the school district, the determination shall remain consistent for the remainder of the student’s high school sports eligibility.”

I guess it's not a matter of States Rights in this situation?

a reply to: Konduit

I knew it was there, but I figured it was a limited thing like when they do a black history or women's history thing. Those are never there for longer than a week or so. I am fine with that.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Gryphon66

www.stuff.co.nz...
www.floelite.com...
tucson.com...
www.cagepotato.com...
www.golfmagic.com...
www.huffingtonpost.com...

How many more examples from this 0.3% of society which is transgender from high level sporting events which only a small fraction of the overall population qualify to compete in to begin with would you want to see before acknowledging that there is absolutely evidence that the playing field is horribly unlevel with these transgendered competing against the normal field?

You give a quick Google list of links and make a claim?

Again, equal rights doesn't rest on a) an individuals population percentage or b) your opinion.

Now, if you want to return to a rational discussion ...

I would freely admit that there are cases where physical development/status makes a difference. That was the basis of my argument in this discussion. I suggested that as opposed to the obviously flawed "girls and boys" divisions in sport, that we take physical capabilities into account. That would produce a more fair competitive field.

Of course, for those that are opposed to trans folks in general and specifically being able to compete in sport, there's nothing that will make a difference to you ... because your belief isn't going to be swayed by the facts.

a reply to: pavil

The assumption that all male-to-female athletes have a physical advantage is just that ... an assumption. It follows hand in hand with the resentment that some folks feel towards gender identity being added to civil rights protections (as we see here.)

My entry point into this discussion was to look at measures of physical attributes as the basis of classiffication into divisions into competitive sport. That's still my position.

I've presented studies here that show that the hormonal treatments that a male-to-female trans athlete have result in physical changes that increase equality in physical prowess ... but that's after several years.

The cause celebre here is the two trans girls in CN that came in first and second on Monday. I think that further consideration could be made in high-school sports because of the period of the hormone treatments.

However, State governments, the IOC, the NCAA and other groups hold a different opinion.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The !st place GIRL was very gracious considering she has no choice. To bad her fellow team mates weren't as gracious when they stole her win.

originally posted by: MountainLaurel
a reply to: Gryphon66

The !st place GIRL was very gracious considering she has no choice.

To bad her fellow team mates weren't as gracious when they stole her win.

So, it turns out that what the other girls feel isn't important, but what you feel about it?

Okay.

a reply to: Gryphon66

when you say "obviously flawed girls and boys division"...to what do you refer? What flaw?

Im going to make a proposal that might seem radical to people here. Barring a better suggestion, its what i can say is the best solution I've seen:

Sports do not neccesitate competition in the way we are talking. I could be possible for sport to occur where competition isn't direct, and handicap systems can be implemented to equalize the field. It would require a drastic shift in human nature. And an abandonment of cultural heritage in many cases.

Sporting games can be imagined where the competition is against yourself and your prior performance (this is actually my favorite way to compete...im into personal improvement more than social dominance).

There are other ways to imagine athletic pursuits that don't require organizing on a field to emulate war. Social dominance and war are ideas that seem to be less fashionable today than they used to be.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

E-Gaming or E-Sports are fairly egalitarian and are on the rise. Some universities are even starting to offer scholarship. In my experience, I've seen little to suggest that women are not able to compete with men.