Yea for Transgender Equality!!

a reply to: Woodcarver

You are mis-stating the facts when you say the DSM considers the knowledge your brain doesn't match your body as a mental illness. That is untrue. They consider the distress (anxiety/depression) a mental disorder. The treatment does not include trying to change the person from having the knowledge their body doesn't match their brain. The treatment includes helping them with the DISTRESS they feel as a result of that knowledge.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I don’t hate them, I don’t want to stop Adults from doing whatever they want. But I will not sit here while you change meanings of words and lie about the way doctors categorize this disorder.

I do not think it is right to subject children to this #ed way of thinking, that has parents putting their pre-teen kids on hormone blockers And manipulating them to go through gender reassignment surgeries, That, more often than not, are regretted Later on in that individual’s life.

These are the facts you can start distributing them, or you can keep on with your emotional pleas for fantasy and lies.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Woodcarver

You are mis-stating the facts when you say the DSM considers the knowledge your brain doesn't match your body as a mental illness. That is untrue. They consider the distress (anxiety/depression) a mental disorder. The treatment does not include trying to change the person from having the knowledge their body doesn't match their brain. The treatment includes helping them with the DISTRESS they feel as a result of that knowledge.

Gender dysphoria is in the DSM. It is listed as a psychological disorder. I posted a quote straight from the page out of the online book a few posts ago.If you want to post something which disputes this, please do

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Wardaddy454

There are many men born males who are sterile, therefore can’t reproduce.

There are many women born females who cannot reproduce.

So, no... reproduction isn’t the epitome of either gender.

And what does the ability to reproduce have to do with sports competition?

Drug use can make people infertile too. You know full well I was talking about the necessary organs for reproduction.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Woodcarver

You are mis-stating the facts when you say the DSM considers the knowledge your brain doesn't match your body as a mental illness. That is untrue. They consider the distress (anxiety/depression) a mental disorder. The treatment does not include trying to change the person from having the knowledge their body doesn't match their brain. The treatment includes helping them with the DISTRESS they feel as a result of that knowledge.

Gender dysphoria is in the DSM. It is listed as a psychological disorder. I posted a quote straight from the page out of the online book a few posts ago.If you want to post something which disputes this, please do

I have to agree. Just going by DSM, gender dysphoria is considered a mental illness.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

Depends on the individual. You would have to take it case by case, in my opinion. That wouldn't be too hard with so few trans people trying to compete.

I disagree in a case by case scenario. Once again to you and I it can seem reasonable, but that is not how it would play out. Many tend to do whatever they can for an advantage, and people at times tend to not make the best choices, so in this case it got to be one shoe fits all, and if it doesn't fit then maybe sports is not in their cards to play since we are still talking about that all of this is a choice in the first place.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: kaylaluv

I don’t hate them, I don’t want to stop Adults from doing whatever they want. But I will not sit here while you change meanings of words and lie about the way doctors categorize this disorder.

I do not think it is right to subject children to this #ed way of thinking, that has parents putting their pre-teen kids on hormone blockers And manipulating them to go through gender reassignment surgeries, That, more often than not, are regretted Later on in that individual’s life.

These are the facts you can start distributing them, or you can keep on with your emotional pleas for fantasy and lies.

Whatever. Done with transphobia today. Someone else can take over if they want to, though God knows why they'd want to.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: kaylaluv

I don’t hate them, I don’t want to stop Adults from doing whatever they want. But I will not sit here while you change meanings of words and lie about the way doctors categorize this disorder.

I do not think it is right to subject children to this #ed way of thinking, that has parents putting their pre-teen kids on hormone blockers And manipulating them to go through gender reassignment surgeries, That, more often than not, are regretted Later on in that individual’s life.

These are the facts you can start distributing them, or you can keep on with your emotional pleas for fantasy and lies.

Whatever. Done with transphobia today. Someone else can take over if they want to, though God knows why they'd want to.

Lol

I’m not transphobic. I have obviously spent a lot more time looking up articles, and familiarizing myself with the issues.

I just spent a lot of time proving that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Take a rest, Refill your feels, and come back and have a reasonable discussion based on facts instead of feels.

a reply to: Xtrozero
is he from texas or 1970s east germany? if you got beans and frank you should not compete against ladies . wrestling is a contact sport what he going to do if one of the girls says he touched her inappropriately while wrestling? not saying he would but doesn't mean an opponent would not say it.

I still think the only fair way to look at this is to consider the body like you do any other piece of athletic equipment. We already do to a certain extent when we do drug tests for performance enhancing substances and ban so many things.

I fail to see why the various substances for treating gender dysphoria should be considered any different just because they are then classed as needed to attempt to force a person's physical reality to conform to their perceived mental reality. The truth is that they are still altering the physical body in ways no regular athlete would be allowed to do and still compete.

Find me one regular female athlete who could take testosterone and still be allowed to compete. You can't because it's a banned performance enhancing substance. It is when boys take it too.

But here we have a female taking testosterone openly and competing against unaltered women because it would be politically incorrect to tell her no because ... transgender. That's an excuse, not a good answer to what's really happening to her body. And she can't really compete against the boys in all likelihood because they've had the benefit of lots more testosterone than she has for more muscle and bone mass, so it would still be unequal, possibly dangerously so for her.

You have similar problems with boys attempting to go the other way.

If these things are considered performance enhancers, then they are, and altering what your physical body is naturally set up to get, even if it's to try to alter your perceived gender, is altering what you naturally have, and should be considered illegal for competitive purposes, IMO.

That doesn't mean that transgenders cannot enjoy athletic pursuits, just that I don't see any easy way to include them into competitive sports without opening up a huge banned substances can of worms for everyone else.

Why are we placating these people? If he she isn't willing to do the noble thing and wait to wrestle until he's allowed to with other males, he should step down and not compete. It's completely unfair for ALL the females. Why does one transgender trump everyone else?

The females should boycott him. Make his victory even less meaningful.

I say let him wrestle with the guys. Until then, don't let him wrestle.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

You said the most intelligent thing I have heard first. Thanks.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Xtrozero

He should see the problem, and desist.

The problem is the state not allowing him to compete with other boys. I say he should keep doing this until people realize how ignorant they are being.

She is not a boy...and likely never will be.

Unless genetic science is capable of going all the way.

And that will not happen anytime soon it appears.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Woodcarver

It doesn’t really matter what the DNA says. There are transgender people who have been taking hormones for so long, that their bodies are so similar to their identified gender - that it would be almost impossible for someone to tell the difference. That is the goal - not to cheat in competition sports, as you seem to imply. The goal is to match the body to what the brain says - and many trans people have become very successful in achieving that goal. Once they have become successful in achieving that goal, why can they not compete in the category of their identified gender?

I highly doubt matching the body to the brain is possible, as long as all manner of maladies occur and diseases are not even close to being cured..it is sad and far-fetched to believe any of these treatments are even close to working OR being on target.

Finding out WHY our genetics are all messed up indeed is necessary..and i am sure big pharma is glad for the opportunity to experiment wildly with the public clamoring for its support.

Trouble is...they will likely hold back the truth and continue "treating" people whether or not reality about what all of this is "solvable".

I look at todays environment as beyond the dark ages...going backwards despite all the claims of moving forwards...this is clear with the evergrowing mental illness seen all around.

I do not believe even for a second that the trans community is anywhere near the right track here..yet they believe they are super close...and that is the saddest part.

Just another group believing science and big pharma will save the day..

Believe this...they are NOT out to help you..and NEVER WERE.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

That solution has it's own problems. Then what prevents a boy from identifying as a girl and cleaning up in girls sports?

The better solution is to ban the use of testosterone in womens sports.

This is a tough one to tackle, in my opinion, but I fully believe if this boy wants to wrestle other boys, it should be allowed. I'd say the same if a cis girl wanted to wrestle boys, actually - unless imminent and irreversible harm would come upon a person, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to take the tougher challenge. I wouldn't imagine testosterone supplementation would cause a trans-male to be far above the cis male counterparts.

On the other hand, I have yet to be convinced on why a trans-female should be able to compete in female sports. Unless it's 100 percent proven that estrogen supplementation turns a man's physical strength to being equal to the average female, and it can be certified that the athlete is indeed taking those proven doses, etc.. I believe it's not fair to the ladies that have worked so hard to be good at what they do - to be outdone because of a y chromosome being in a gender-split sport just doesn't sound right to me.

I'm open to changing my mind on this of course, or being presented with facts that prove my assumption wrong, but that's currently my standing on the topics based on what I know so far.

a reply to: ParasuvO

What's your point, though?

If someone wants to run a race with a weight jacket on, would you deny them?

I think that unless his supplementation can be proved to put him even ahead of males in physical strength, an athlete should be able to choose to compete at a higher level than they may be realistically capable of.

This is the world when actions and choices no longer have consequences.

Not fair to the females who have to go against him. (I assume it a boy pretending to be a girl?)
And not fair to the boys who would feel uncomfortable wrasslin' a guy who looks like a chick.

Either way this person has an unfair advantage. They had the choice to change gender. Yet the other kids have no choice and are forced to live with and deal with it lest they be labelled a bigot or homophobe or something equally moronic.
Tolerance, understanding, equality and acceptance are clearly a one way street.

What a stupid pathetic messed up world we're making.

You make choices you should have to live with them completely. If you decide to change sex, then you should have to give up everything where your unchangeable biology gives you an advantage in.
Do-gooders will say "but that's not fair!!!"
Because who cares about how fair it is to the girls who are losing yeah?

a reply to: Ursushorribilis

I doubt it really. I think it's a choice, most of the time a sexually driven one, some of the time a result of child abuse (like parents encouraging their son to be a girl).

There's no medical condition at all. That's just a way for some people to try and portray some great struggle and romanticize the whole issue.

a reply to: Xtrozero

HE is not a GIRL! That is why HE is WINNING! Pathetic that a guy uses his physical and chemical advantage as a guy pretending to be a girl to beat other girls. WHAT A PATHETIC INDIVIDUAL!!