Pro_Life Violence

"....It's no-ones business to tell a woman what to do with her body, especially not the government. Any attempts to outlaw abortions would be a violation of civil rights and an encroachment of government into public life that's unacceptable."

REPLY: A "civil right" is something that does not have an effect on someone else. Abortion, I submit, has a very grave effect on another life. When a woman chooses to abort her child, it's not her body that is at issue.
There is no "civil right" to an abortion.

Besides that, at least here in America, it is a states rights issue, therefore the Federal government should not be involved. Roe VS: Wade does not make abortion legal; there is no law making abortion legal. If the Supreme court overturns Roe, it would not end abortion. The states would put it on their ballots as a referendum, and those states who vote it legal would do so, and those who voted it as not wanted would not allow it. I'm against Roe V: Wade because it's bad law, as it indicates some arbitrary right to privacy which does not exist in the Bill of Rights.

Wow, could someone PLEASE sum this up? I read through page 3, then saw there is over 30 pages!!!!!!

But uh, going by first few pages, I think it is amazing that people who consider a fetus to be life, clearly going against God's word, find it ok to blow up an emergency room where no abortions are done. That people who are clearly going against the Bible by both committing blaspheme and killing people have no problem with shooting people on the street.

Also, with over 200 wrongful deaths in execution, isn't it time we try to curb that? Use DNA, which has been used to prove people who have rotted away in jail to be innoccent, or other things to make sure they are guilty. Really unless they admit to it, you have video of it, and the ghost testifying in court the guy/girl/person did it don't kill them! Death Penalty is NOT a detterent, we are the ONLY Western Country to kill people, how sad is that? Yet we are also one of the few Western COuntries to kill people because they believe that a woman has a right to control her body. Other countries who are far more liberal then us have fewer abortions even though they are legal, of course you can get contraceptions easier to.

How come Liberal countries have less crime? Places like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, basically the most conservative places on Earth all have high crime rates even though they also have the death penalty. Heck can't you be killed for singing in public? Of course that may be why they have a higher crime rate as they have more things that are crimes. If you have 5 laws and this country has 5,000,000 laws they will have a higher crime rate as they have more laws to break. So the Statistics are flawed as a country with more laws will of course have a higher crime rate as they have more laws to break.

Originally posted by DevinS
Wow, could someone PLEASE sum this up?

Sure I'll sum it up for ya.



Person A: Abortion is wrong!

Person B: I'll do it if I want to. Leave me alone.

Referee: Don't DO that!

Person A: It's taking a life!

Person B: A fetus isn't a life! It's none of your business what I do. Don't have an abortion if you don't want to!

Referee: Don't DO that!

Person A: There is no right to have an abortion!

Person B: It's private! My business!

Referee: Don't DO that!

Person A: It's against the bible!

Person B: The bible says life begins on first breath!

Referee: Don't DO that!

That's basically it.

Aw I see, well you forgot to continue the convo then.

Person A: WHere does it say that!

Person B: Here!

Person A: That's a metaphor!

Person B: WHy isn't it literal?

Person A: Because I said so!

Person B: Then how come this part is literal and not metaphorical?

Person A: Because I said so! Now is time to go down to a hospital that doesn't perform abortions and blow it up!

Oh boy, stereo-typical comedy at its finest. Well, I hope you two are enjoying talking to yourself. When you are done going solo, let me know, I should like to join in an actual conversation.

"Another thing, pro-choice is not pro-abortion, it is pro-choice! Better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it.:"- James the Lesser

Of course, Pro-Life seems to mean Pro-Kill anyone, how many Pro-Choice KKK members are there? How many Pro-Choice Terrorists Arabs do you know of? How many Pro-Choice Nazis do you know of? ANswer=0. They are all Pro-Life yet all seem to be about killing everyone, one is kill all blacks and gays, one is kill all blacks, gays, whites, basically anyone who isn't Arab/Islamic, and one is kill all blacks, gays, and Jews. But all are Pro-Life!

Originally posted by DevinS
They are all Pro-Life yet all seem to be about killing everyone, one is kill all blacks and gays, one is kill all blacks, gays, whites, basically anyone who isn't Arab/Islamic, and one is kill all blacks, gays, and Jews. But all are Pro-Life!

How do you figure?

You do know that the KKK and Neo-Nazis are republican groups, republicans are Pro-Life, one of the main deals with republicans. And terrorists are also conservative, and also have banned abortion in their countries, and yet they fly planes into the WTC buildings, and maybe the Pentagon.

You find me a commie liberal gay black man in the KKK and I'll find you a straight white billionaire conservative in the Black Panthers.

Originally posted by DevinS
You do know that the KKK and Neo-Nazis are republican groups, republicans are Pro-Life, one of the main deals with republicans. And terrorists are also conservative, and also have banned abortion in their countries, and yet they fly planes into the WTC buildings, and maybe the Pentagon.

You find me a commie liberal gay black man in the KKK and I'll find you a straight white billionaire conservative in the Black Panthers.

Ooooh, that's how you figure. Sorry I asked. Well, I guess that makes me a mafia viking indian-savage who is responsible for every war since the Hebrews liberation of the Egyptian empire. Wow, how do I sleep at night? It's a good thing there are all those sinless liberal-folk out there to keep me balanced with society.

[edit on 21-2-2006 by saint4God]

Uh, how many liberal KKK members? How many liberal Neo-Nazis? How many liberal terrorists/arab countries? NONE! They are conservative groups, like how you can't find conservatives in the ALF, that is a liberal group, insane idiots who love animals to much, but liberal.

The Middle East is conservative, just another reason why people shouldn't support republicans, they are conservative, Middle East is conservative, do we really want a Middle East in America?

The abortion issue is an issue of morality, not of choice, and education is the key not laws. I am not for abortions but I am not against freedom to choose...what does that make me?

The reason I say Pro-Choice is a crock because in all my personal contacts and conversations about "choice" and those for it and defending it, it is never really about "choice" its about justification-always it seems justification is the bottom line in their fight.

Women should have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies. Our entire lives' puprose is to exercise free will. I find it rediculous that pro-choicers feel it necessary to defend their stance by trying to convince themselves and others that conception doesn't equal life!

Is the issue about life, or choice?

If pro-choice, stick to the topic of choice, and forget about splitting hairs about the origins and beginings of actual "life" in your defense of your freedoms.

If it's about the right to choose...to choose what to do with your body...to choose to have a baby...or to choose to have an abortion of that baby...then let it be about the choice! Not about trying to negate the validity of the life of the baby....at least not as far as your "stand" on your "right to choose" what to do with your own body.

It is rediculous to me that women so strongly defending their "rights" have to take the cowards way of defending that right by minimizing what right they fight for to a "mass of cells" "blob of tissue" "product of conception" etc so that it appeases their conscence, or trying to appease the oppostion.

It seems they are awfully defensive about what their "right" is or is not for, instead of just concentrating on their RIGHT to CHOOSE.

If a woman has the choice to kill the life within her, then say so, don't try to cover it up, make it less ugly than it is, or sugarcoat it...who is that for? The ones for choice or against it? Those against abortion sure aren't going to buy it...so I am thinking...must be for their own rationlizations.

So then really, it isn't just about right to choose, the freedom of choice, freedom to do what they will with their own body...or else what they are carrying wouldn't be the question...wouldn't be how they defend their "right to choose."

So, then, if it all comes down to that product of conception afterall... not about choice, not about women's rights etc...if it's a matter of what is morally justifiable...and it is not morally justifiable to end innocent life, so then we get "blob of tissue" blah blah blah...

then are those same pro-choice people on the fense when it comes time to decide when it is life? A mass of cells...no...a heartbeat? maybe... A flinch from pain from a prob or needle? Ummm....

Lets face it the right to choose is about choosing to end life-case closed. If you are for this right, then by all means stand up and say so! Say this is what you choose to do and it is within your right to do so. Stand up.

If you are against it-then educate women and young girls, not just on contraception, but other choices, so those unplanned children will have half a chance at a good life.

But stop all the freaking quarrelling over what life is and what God wants. He doesn't want the murdering of innocent babies, everyone knows that but he also doesn't want oppressive measures on the rights of free will of others either.

We all know what life is and when it begins, and nature, the universe, or God has a way of ending life not meant to be...misacarriages, stillbirths, short lives, etc...if people want to exercise their right to choose to play one of those roles and nip life in the bud while it's a part of them-let them and let them answer to their own consequences.

You can't go around stopping people from exerising their rightrs to free will people-they aren't killing you, your loved ones, your family, your neightbors etc...this is their own conception, a part of themselves and if they want to end that life, they should have that right.

We have the right to go against any morality, or society, or religiously imposed laws and our consequences are our own.

The key is education though...for I have met many a woman, pro-choice at one time, who regret their chose of abortion...and nothing anyone can say to them, about blobs of tissues, product of conception etc...eases their pain or guilt or the reality of the consequences when it comes reigning down.

I know there are many that live happily with their choice for now as well, but so many more regret it come some few or many years later-no one talks of this often enough, the education of regret isn't in a pamplet on a wall in the abortion clinic.



[edit on 27-2-2006 by think2much]

You have voted think2much for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

All I can say is wow... Quit thinking so damn much.

I know this is a touchy subject... But think2much raises some damn good points. We can all disagree about when life officially starts. But, can't we all agree that we are essentially stopping a life from having the chance to begin? I mean... That bundle of cells... If that's the way you feel about it, will eventually grow into a baby. If it's aborted in the 1st 2nd or 3rd trimester shouldn't make a difference. When sperm fertilizes the egg a life will eventually grow.

I believe in a woman's choice to have an abortion. But, I think abortions for birth control is just plain wrong. Yes, I do think this is happening these days. I personally know of 3 young girls that have done this. Yes, it would have changed their lives... Initially for the worse. But I know they could have supported that baby if it was born.

One of the girls I refuse to talk to anymore. She flat out told me she had the abortion because she didn't want to carry it for 9 months. Even to give it up for adoption. She was having promiscuous sex again about two weeks later. I lost what little respect I had for that girl fast.

The other two, well I didn't know them as well. It was guy friends of mine that got them pregnant. Yeah, you guessed it. To drunk to find a condom. One of the guys had the guts to try and talk the girl into having the baby. Why? He doesn't believe in abortion. The mans feelings on this subject never seem to matter though. She had the abortion anyways.

That's a different argument though... It's almost like the man has no part of conception. I know I know... We don't carry the child for 9 months. I'm sure if some men could... To save a life (If that's what they believe)... They would. The man upstairs can be cruel like that.

If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant. That's is a different story altogether. For moral reasons I would hope she would still have the baby. But I can understand a woman's right to make a choice under this circumstance.

Can we all agree that a lot of abortions happen in this country. Abortions that could easily be avoided? Whether by education, better sex-ed programs, or hell I don't know. Something seems fishy to me these days on this subject. It just seems to easy and convenient these days for a woman to get an abortion.

*just my two cents*

Go easy on me.

Originally posted by DevinS
Of course, Pro-Life seems to mean Pro-Kill anyone, how many Pro-Choice KKK members are there? How many Pro-Choice Terrorists Arabs do you know of? How many Pro-Choice Nazis do you know of? ANswer=0. They are all Pro-Life yet all seem to be about killing everyone, one is kill all blacks and gays, one is kill all blacks, gays, whites, basically anyone who isn't Arab/Islamic, and one is kill all blacks, gays, and Jews. But all are Pro-Life!

Wow... Just when I thought I had already heard every low down and ignorant thing that could be said in PTS. Thanks for proving me wrong here. Care to back these facts up... With some facts? Or you just trolling for some harsh remarks? You get off on that sort of stuff?

Nice to know it's so easy to lump all pro-lifers into one big category. Shouldn't have even replied to this post. I'm just feeding a troll.

Originally posted by LostSailor
All I can say is wow... Quit thinking so damn much.

yeah like thats going to happen Thanks for the vote man

Originally posted by LostSailor
Something seems fishy to me these days on this subject. It just seems to easy and convenient these days for a woman to get an abortion. *just my two cents*

it's 2 worth spending. I think one of the major issues of abortion is the string it keeps people on. I mean it is rediculous when the media and entertainment industry feed you your ideals, morals, and political views...what do you expect from society then?

What is fishy to me is whenever there is a political candidate that is the issue that everyone must know...what is their stand on abortion?!?!? Supreme court justice nominiee....quick tell me...what is his view on Roe vs Wade? WTF cares...just a string it seems

make me puke and you get all these yahoos becoming extreme about it... on both sides...all because someone is pulling their strings for votes...for a "cause" divide and conquer at it's best

Argh! it gets me so aggravated. When you relay those stories of young girls using it as a form of borth control-it's sickening really. I met a girl in the military and she drove me nuts with all of her animal rights vegan lifestyle feminst bull# shoved down my throat ojn a daily basis...then one day she hyppocrtically eats some pizza and tells me not to judge her...I explained those were her convictions not mine...

then she tells me of her abortion...and I had to consider the fact she valued the lives of chickens and cows over that of her own flesh and blood child...

but still, while in a small double handful of mixed company drinking and talking of things one ought not to one drinking-controversial subjects.... both these subjectes came up and she got SO upset with me...for revealing her darkest most shameful secret...

...that she had eaten not just cheese but pepeeroni pizza.

Yeah, to hell with the abortion, she was actually upset about the fact I discussed her stray from veganism...and really I wasn't even pointing it out....I was poiting out how she asked me "don't hold it against me" when she ate that pizza...proving she cared more about what others thought then her own convicitons on the subject...I was not giving a damn about the pizza!

Anyway, to me, it isn't that it is too easy to get abortions Sailor, it's that it is all too common.

The availablility to have an abortion and the freedom to choose, should not mean it should be common place...where has society gone wrong in educating young women? Why to be a strong willed, freethinking feminist does it mean subscribing to abortion as a quick fix?

And in contrast giving birth seen as a failure to stand up for your rights as a woman? Accepting accountability for your action in conceiving life, by making the sacrifice to carry that life should never been seen as shameful by society, nor a weakness.

Ah but abortion is so much easier, quicker, convenient, and discrete, and of course condoned amongst the strong women of society, etc...hell if you aren't trying to trap a guy...seems like the only way to go...

:shk:

Originally posted by LostSailor
Wow... Just when I thought I had already heard every low down and ignorant thing that could be said in PTS. Thanks for proving me wrong here.

Didn't you see the big sign Sailor "Don't feed the trolls" People cannot truly be that naturally flaming ignorant-he is obviously looking for a reaction. Silly you.

WHat? Abortion is banned in the Middle East, KKK and Neo-Nazi's are republican groups, therefor they are Pro-Life, and who was it that flew planes into the WTC buildings? Either Arabs or republicans, depends on which theory you go with.

Also, the guy who started this is banned, does he still get points from us posting? if so shouldn't we start a new thread? No point in upping that guys points when he got banned by the men in tights.(admins)

[edit on 27-2-2006 by DevinS]

Originally posted by DevinS
WHat? Abortion is banned in the Middle East, KKK and Neo-Nazi's are republican groups, therefor they are Pro-Life, and who was it that flew planes into the WTC buildings? Either Arabs or republicans, depends on which theory you go with.

Look man, if you can't see how your thought process is flawed. I can do nothing to help you. I'm not going to argue with you on the subject. G'night.

Your logic is flawed. They are all Pro-Life groups, all against abortions, yet they have no trouble killing blacks, gays, jews, the Great American Satan, whatever else.

So, they are all Pro-Life groups, or groups against abortions, yet kill everyone else. And the WTC reference was a sarcastic thing, since this is a conspiracy website I thought I might add a conspiracy to this thread since so far it has been "Pro-Life people kill people." followed by "So what? They deserve to die." followed by "How can you say that? A living breathing human with a soul is ok to kill but something that isn't living, breathing, or have a soul is not ok to destroy?" "Because I said so."

Hey Sailor...reckon we'll be profiled as terrorists now? I mean afterall, it's only logical thinking right? :shk:

Logical along with ideas that banned members shouldn't get "all the points" afterall, thats what it's all about right...it's all about the points... rrrriiiggghhhttt

maybe I could come up with a new avatar for some people

"WILL FLAME FOR POINTS"

hehehe



and I thought I already told you boy-Don't feed the trolls! Now go to bed!



[edit on 27-2-2006 by think2much]

Hey you want to start the new topic go ahead so you get all the points go ahead. Just give a link to it. I don't care about points, just figure a guy who got banned shouldn't be rewarded anymore.