Pro_Life Violence

Uh, she's banned, good job Zappa, attacking someone who was banned, no way of getting in trouble for it...

Anyways, Communism does work, or did China, Cuba, and Vietnam fall this morning and no one knws yet?

Originally posted by Johnny Ohm
Uh, she's banned, good job Zappa, attacking someone who was banned, no way of getting in trouble for it...

Anyways, Communism does work, or did China, Cuba, and Vietnam fall this morning and no one knws yet?

REPLY: Ask the people in N. Korea eating tree bark and moss to stay alive if Comminism works. Cuba is an island, yet they have a shortage of fish... ask them; or the 30-some librarians in Cuba who were put in prison indefinately for having the "wrong books" on the shelf. Or the parents of those kids in Castros "childrens prisons."

Hey.... what the heck; Communism has only killed 1.3 million people the past 100 years; lets's give it another go.

If she can post, she can read and defend herself. Do the forum rules state where no-one can get into trouble for flaming a banned member? Link, please?

[edit on 14-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Ask the people in Iraq, a DEMOCRATIC CAPITALIST country how it feels to eat sand. How it feels to have your family executed by troops for being... there?

Ask the people in the Ghettos of New York, Chicago, Atlanta, how it feels to eat nothing because the jobs they worked at are now in India. You know, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, cities in America, a DEMOCRATIC CAPITALIST country.

Or how about the people in Russia? I'm sure they are all fine and dandy as they freeze to death in their Non-Communist country. Or starve to death, or get blown up by Chechen rebels.

Or how about Pakistan? India? Saudi Arabia? Oh wait, they are all non-Communist, yet places like India millions starve to death, and in Saudi Arbia people are executed en-masse to make people like Saddam and Hitler proud.

Good thing the problems in North Korea are because of Communism, not bad leadership, or being in a place with little to no resources, or lack of help that some countries get, nope, it's all because it is a Communist nation.

EDIT: How is she supposed to post and read, she's banned?(It's a she right?)


[edit on 14-7-2006 by Johnny Ohm]

quote by Johnny Ohm

Ask the people in Iraq, a DEMOCRATIC CAPITALIST country how it feels to eat sand.

REPLY: You weren't there, I was, and you don't have a freaking clue.

Ask the people in the Ghettos of New York, Chicago, Atlanta, how it feels to eat nothing because the jobs they worked at are now in India. You know, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, cities in America,

REPLY: All cities which are run by Democrats; you forgot Cleveland. The jobs went oversear because of high taxes and the poor education in our public schools (as evidenced by many here).

Or how about the people in Russia? I'm sure they are all fine and dandy as they freeze to death in their Non-Communist country. Or starve to death, or get blown up by Chechen rebels.

REPLY: That they have problems with the Chechens is irrelevant. Russia is still party-run, and their people have little real freedom and liberty a result of their government. I haven't seen any headlines about food lines in Russia, or for that matter New York, Chicago, Atlanta, etc, etc.......

Or how about Pakistan? India? Saudi Arabia? Oh wait, they are all non-Communist, yet places like India millions starve to death, and in Saudi Arbia people are executed en-masse to make people like Saddam and Hitler proud.

REPLY: They have little freedom, either, because of their government.

Good thing the problems in North Korea are because of Communism, not bad leadership, or being in a place with little to no resources, or lack of help that some countries get, nope, it's all because it is a Communist nation.

REPLY: Actually, as far as N. Korea goes, it's both/all of the things you mentioned; thanks!

How is she supposed to post and read, she's banned?(It's a she right?)

REPLY: Obviously she can; her posts are here, arent they?

If you believe in failed governments and economic policies, just say so. I can respect that. I'd question your judgement, and wonder where you learned it, but I'd respect it.
Now..... on topic?..... or is another thread again dead because of being off topic?

Last Point... You are saying NK is screwed up because of Communism, when it isn't. It is like saying Capitalism is screwed up because of the problems in America, Russia, so forth. Also, Atlanta is controlled by Democrats?(I thought Georgia was a hardcore red state)

Also, are you there now? Were you in Haditha when troops raped a woman then killed her and her family and then burned the bodies? Were you at Abu Ghraib were the pictures that Congress said weren't that bad were torture?

On topic, well, what is left? Pro-Life people kill people, Pro-Choice people don't. Not much of a discussion.

[edit on 14-7-2006 by Johnny Ohm]

If you saw and paid attention to the Haditha movie, and if you knew the difference, ALL the empty shell casings on the ground were AK47. More and more the evidence is showing that it never happend as was proposed. Am I positive? No. But it's the way things are looking. There's been quite a few times now that movies of "atrocities" turned out to be the work of the insurgents, and blamed on us. They did it during the first part of this war, too, before the cease fire.

You are saying NK is screwed up because of Communism, when it isn't.

REPLY: Ummmmm, excuse me??? Communism is the reason the people there have a serious lack of individual liberty and freedom, both of which are mandatory to economic and personal growth.

Back on topic:

Pro-Choice people don't (kill people).

REPLY: In 35 years, 43 MILLION people-to-be..... killed.

[edit on 15-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Ah! But Key Word "To Be"

They weren't human, therefore not killed. They weren't even alive! Again, if a fetus the size of this . is a human then so is sperm, and eggs. Do you kill people when u ejaculate? Even better, what if you have sex, ejaculate, but none of the sperm find an egg, did you just kill a million babies for no reason?

quotes by Johnny Ohm

They weren't human, therefore not killed.

REPLY: HA HA HA HA ... they were ummmmm..... what? Sheep? Ostriches? Oh no.... maybe they were Velociraptors!

They weren't even alive!

REPLY: A fetus begins breathing at 10 to 12 weeks. 88% of abortions are done in that period.

I'm fairly sure breathing and a heartbeat indicate life.

For the simple reason of your first quote, above, your done. Bye!

Then why don't you do a C-Section at 8-12 weeks and see if it is alive? Oh what, it isn't then, to bad.

Still, if a fetus is a living human being with the right to vote, drive, pays taxes, then so are sperm and eggs, which are killed by the billions every week.

So zappa in this world of yours were there are no social programs and and no abortions, what do you plan to do to help these lives you care so much about once they are born?

You claim to love life so much yet you would take away the only chance of any help for a, for example, single un-educated mother living in the inner-city?

So you're quit happy to take away any state help and to force a mother to have a child that has no chance right from the start?

None of what you say makes any sense in the real world.

Must be the fault of communists and their social programmes eh?

"If you ain't born-again, they wanna mess you up. Screamin' 'No abortion, no-siree! Life's too precious, can't you see? "And if you don't know by now, the truth of what I'm tellin' you, then surely I have failed somehow. And Jesus will think I'm a jerk, just like you. If you let those TV preachers make a monkey out of you, Jesus will think you're a jerk, and it will be true!" Frank Zappa

I'm going to jump in here at this point. I have asked for this thread to be locked, so that we can focus the subject of abortion more clearly. Currently, what we have here is a bickering contest consisting of an endless exchange of clichés. If we can get back on track and make this less personal, maybe we can keep it open, but if the current quality of exchange persists, I don't see much point in trying to reign this thread back in.

Grady

[edit on 2006/7/16 by GradyPhilpott]

Well, looking at the thread post, I see Grady's point but would like to give you all a chance to bring it back in line before we lock it. Seeing as how the thread founder is no longer with us on the board, is there anyone concerned if this is locked?

Originally posted by zappafan1
In 35 years, 43 MILLION people-to-be..... killed.

A fetus begins breathing at 10 to 12 weeks. 88% of abortions are done in that period.

Heya zappa, I want to commend you for actually having statistics in this discussion. Would you be able to give a source for this one? I think it would be helpful for those of us seeking validation and to utilize these facts ourselves.

Back on topic per request. The thread is about "Pro-Life Violence". I have to admit I'm fascinated with what zappa hase been saying because s/he has included seemingly good, concrete facts and scientific definitions as to why one should be Pro-Life. I am Pro-Life, but not "Pro-Life Violence". I also feel this is a great great majority of Pro-Life folks as well. Am I wrong? It's those < 3%-ish folks who really seem to have a lust for blood. I'd say count on 3% of any large group to be this way no matter what they believe even if it is contradictory to their reason for organization. Agree or disagree? Not explaining away nor saying it is right. "Pro-Life Violence" is wrong and hypocritical.



[edit on 17-7-2006 by saint4God]

[link] www.cirtl.org...

[link] www.abortionfacts.com...

These are but two links giving statistics, either worldwide, or just here in America, state by state.

I have a political reason for being pro-life, and also a political and moral one. The Center (also known as "the Right") look upon every new life as a possibility of good things to come, and the potential of each new being. Of the 40 plus million, which might have been the new Einstein, or Hawking? Which might have become the person who cured AIDS or cancer?

The Left looks at every new life as another mouth to feed and educate; a burden on society.

Planned parenthood began as a means of eugenics, to rid this country of those who were somehow..... less.... than those who felt it was their station in life to make those judgements upon us all. Started mostly to reduce the number of Blacks in America, sadly, they are the ones who most often use the service, to their own detriment. It's a damn shame.

The rare occurance of pro-life violence is an order of magnitude less than what goes on inside the abortion mills.

Roe V: Wade was bad law, as it took away from the states, and their voters, the ability to decide for themselves on the issue. Roe V: Wade is also not a "right" to an abortion, as it merely stated that there is a right to privacy between a woman and her doctor. Unfortunately, there is no "right to privacy" in the Bill of Rights. However, it has become an issue whereby politicians can buy votes.

I hope I have done my part to bring this thread back on course.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Originally posted by zappafan1
[link] www.cirtl.org...

[link] www.abortionfacts.com...

These are but two links giving statistics, either worldwide, or just here in America, state by state.

I'm not normally one who likes to sift through statistics all day, but these are some huge compilations of data. Very flexible, solid and easy to use. Thanks for these references and very, very solid argument you've put together here . I'm looking forward to the pro-choice statistics. Oh wait, there aren't any . One more thing...

You have voted zappafan1 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

by ANOK:

So zappa in this world of yours were there are no social programs and and no abortions, what do you plan to do to help these lives you care so much about once they are born?

REPLY: I didn't say no abortions. As for help, it would be altruistic, voluntary help, which is what Americans did (and still do) before all the programs started.

You claim to love life so much yet you would take away the only chance of any help for a, for example, single un-educated mother living in the inner-city?

REPLY: And why is she uneducated? I know the school systems, being government run, are failing our kids, but there are enough state programs that she could take advantage of. By the way, it was the federal welfare programs that put her into that situation to begin with, since a monthly paycheck replaced the father at the table. It also caused the breakdown of the inner cities and the black families. If she's un-educated, and doesn't have a job (not including rape) why does she have a child she can't afford to begin with? How smart do you have to be to flip a burger for $9.00 to $11.00 an hour plus benefits?

So you're quit happy to take away any state help and to force a mother to have a child that has no chance right from the start?

REPLY: I said/meant federal help. Again, why the kid if she can't afford it?

None of what you say makes any sense in the real world.

REPLY: what I wrote above IS the real world.

PS: Don't eat the yellow snow.


[edit on 20-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: A fetus begins breathing at 10 to 12 weeks. 88% of abortions are done in that period.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What exactly is a fetus surrounded by amniotic fluid "breathing?” The fluid? Risking rupture of the very delicate structure in the lung from the extreme viscosity of the fluid (as opposed to the air it is meant to breath) doesn't seem like a great way to ensure survival of a fetus. A baby’s first breath is not only difficult but also painful because it is the first time it has ever expanded its little lungs. Yet according to your vast medical knowledge, the stupid thing has been "breathing" for 5 months already.

Jon

never mind

[edit on 20/7/2006 by ANOK]

by Voxel:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What exactly is a fetus surrounded by amniotic fluid "breathing?” The fluid?

REPLY: "Breathing" here denoted as actually extracting the air/oxygen in the fluid. It has to get oxygen from somewhere to continue it's heartbeat.

Risking rupture of the very delicate structure in the lung from the extreme viscosity of the fluid (as opposed to the air it is meant to breath) doesn't seem like a great way to ensure survival of a fetus.

REPLY: I'm fairly certain this has been occuring since day one; well.... since birth one, so it must work.

".....the stupid thing has been "breathing" for 5 months already.

REPLY: "Uneducated" might be the correct term here. However, we all were in that situation once.

Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: "Breathing" here denoted as actually extracting the air/oxygen in the fluid. It has to get oxygen from somewhere to continue it's heartbeat.

Don't change a definition to suit your ignorance. Breathing is a well-defined biological term.

Yes it needs oxygen. The problem is you are wrong about how it gets that oxygen. It gets oxygen from the mother's blood through oxygen exchange occurring in the placenta. Seriously just look it up on wikipedia or google it and read.

What do you think this is, The Abyss? Do you think a baby in the womb is breathing a liquid that is super oxygenated? That was just a movie and we have known the biology behind pregnancy for quite some time.

REPLY: I'm fairly certain this has been occuring since day one; well.... since birth one, so it must work.

I don't even know what you are trying to say here so I will just ignore it as uneducated noise.

REPLY: "Uneducated" might be the correct term here. However, we all were in that situation once.

Apparently, some never leave that stage in life. I only wish pro-lifers were also pro-education then at least we could have a proper discussion about the issues. Unfortunately, I am at the disadvantage in any debate with pro-lifers because I must take time to hold your hand as I teach you about basic human biology.

Jon