Pro_Life Violence

Both the unborn child and the criminal” are both living things. More than that they are human beings. And if you follow the doctrine of pro life all life including the two types should be represented. with that the programs that support basic life like health care, mediciens, food, and shelter. That is PRO-LIFE not a narrow band of republican fodder. How can you judge who god wants to be killed and who should not? There will always be people on each side.

Tookie is a perfect example. He supposedly killed 4 people in a heinous act of violence. True but with is writings and negotiations between the Bloods and the Crips saved many many more lives. If he were executed soon after his crimes none of the good things he has done would have ever happened.


When does punishment become vengeance for the victims?

If you believe the lord will hold judgment and it is dulled out by the higher spirit alone then why not give all life a change to redeem themselves.


Not all killers are animals and not all criminals are not beyond rehabilitation. I think its called forgiveness. (I think it is somewhere in the bible)

Well let’s expand it further by adding programs and services that will keep people living. The same people screaming pro life are steadily pulling social programs out from under the poor how can they continue to live? These programs do service the community by helping those who don’t have as much as you or I.

And for all those people who say killall the criminals and let god sort'em I pray for your soul that you never ever get framed or put in a position where your actions get you the dealth penalty. It gets real ironic when you are on the other side. Never say Never...

BTW have you been in a 8x8 cell you 25 years? if you had a xbox, all the weed you can smoke, cable, sat, and porn. You are going to want walk outside at sometime or be alone it is still a punishment.


also bible thumpers please please think before you write. Who are you and when did god give you the right to judge others? are you Bruce Almighty? If want to alk about the number of aborted fetusesas potential leaders, then lets talk about the medical community being able to help babies that would have died at birth in the Good ole olden days of Christ.

[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]

"....It's no-ones business to tell a woman what to do with her body, especially not the government. Any attempts to outlaw abortions would be a violation of civil rights and an encroachment of government into public life that's unacceptable."

REPLY: A "civil right" is something that does not have an effect on someone else. Abortion, I submit, has a very grave effect on another life. When a woman chooses to abort her child, it's not her body that is at issue.... think about it.

"...Really who do these people think they are to try and tell someone they don't even know who lives thousands of miles away from them and force them not to be able to have an abortion, an act which does not harm them in any way possible?"

REPLY: It does great harm to society as a whole, and it says a lot about the morality of a culture. Roe VS: Wade does not make bortion legal... it's about some so-called "Privacy" issue. The Bill of Rights says we have a God-given right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nowhere does it say anything about abortion. If God graces someones life with a child, then they should be allowed those same rights.

".... I believe around 190,000 people are born each day in the world, it's not as if there is some huge crisis going on with our population growth."

REPLY: You need to do more research on that, bud.

"....The stage of development that foetus's are at during abortion they aren't that much different from other mammals anyway, yet we have no qualms about that nor do they have the neurons and neural pathway built for memory storage yet or are they physically aware or concscious."

REPLY: At eight months none of those things are present? Again, do the research. Why is it then that babies exhibit voice recognition, or respond to songs/music played while they were in the womb.?

".... The pro-life people sicken me, if every life is sacred these people would close down the death penalty and argue for more humane punishment such as life in prison...."

REPLY: The death penalty is the result of when a society places a certain value on a life... apparently something that an unborn child is not allowed. TwoCows (excuse me.... Tookie) is a good case in point. If you are guilty of commiting a murder, then you actually sentence yourself to death. Since Tookie didn't have the nuts to kill himself, then the state is forced into carrying out the sentence. He effectively killed himself when he murdered those people. He had the option of all of the appeals, whereas his victims did not... likewise the unborn.

"WHY CANT AMERICANS BE AGAINST ABORTION MORALLY YET ACCEPT PRO-CHOICE AS A CIVIL LIBERTY FOR WOMEN IN A MODERN PROGRESSIVE SOCIETY?"

REPLY: That is precisely the point.... infanticide is a "progressive" (read: communist) idea, and totally against the ideals this country was founded upon. If infanticide is being "modern", then we need to go back a few years.

".... Wars start when people get angry and/or have an ulterior motivation such as power, money, land, selfishness, etc. I do not have in my Bible a command to go out and kill. In fact, mine says the opposite. Two places that come to mind are Exodus 20:13 (You shall not kill) and Matthew 5:43 (love your enemies).

REPLY: In many places in the Bible it mentions killing evil, and there are wars mentioned, too.

"....According to the bible a fetus isn't human. It isn't a human until it takes the "Breath of Life".

REPLY: No... it says it has no soul until it takes it's first breath.

".... Before then it isn't even property unless you want to fine the person who punched your wife in the stomach causing the miscarrige for loss of Property."

REPLY: Fine the person? Many are the cases where a person was charged with 2nd degree murder in the death of the undorn.

".... As far as I can gather he's only repeating what the bible says.. it does not support the pro-life position. I understand why some people are pro-life.. but it seems kind of silly to use the bible to defend these politics when a fetus is deemed property or soul-less till it's first breath."

REPLY: The Bill of Rights is very explicit in this matter, but does not mention the unborn.

".... Firstly.. you are talking about a woman having the 'right to have sex'"

REPLY: No... I'm talking about both men and women taking the responsibility for their actions, instead of the very (life-ending) burden on the unborn.

".... Do you think women should only be ALOUD to have sex only for procreation or something? What about women who are on a dozen forms of contraception? Have they earnt the right?"

REPLY: No.. but abortion removes her the farthest from what she was placed on earth for. Consider that 90% of abortions are out of convenience or feminist rage. I have no problem with contraceptives (except maybe the morning-after pill), but if it doesn't work then you have the child and give it up for adoption. And, no, taking a pill doesn't give a woman the "RIGHT" to have sex. Responsibility for one's actions should be followed.

".... It's only performed in 1% of abortions."

REPLY: No... 1% is hardly correct.

PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION is performed during the fifth month of gestation or later. The woman's cervix is dilated, and the fetus is partially removed, feet first. The surgeon INSERTS a sharp object into the back of the fetus' head, removes it, and inserts a vacuum tube which SUCKS OUT the brains. The head of the fetus contracts at this point and allows the fetus to be more easily removed.

..... and while the child feels pain, discomfort, etc.... how humanitarian.
................................................

".... (a) political stunt designed to put the spotlight on the issue rather than saving that 1%."

REPLY: Yeah, what the heck..... that 1% only means 50,000 lives.

".... Less single mothers on welfare?"

REPLY: How about less women having kids if they can't afford them, and expecting the taxpayers to pay for their indescretion?

".... Or some woman who had an abortion at 15 graduates and goes onto medical school."

REPLY: Yeah..... THAT happens every day. And if that child had grown up, man or woman, to be another Einstein, or a doctor... then there'd be two professionals in the family.

Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: No... I'm talking about both men and women taking the responsibility for their actions, instead of the very (life-ending) burden on the unborn.

Agreed.. but I rarely see a man's responsibility even mentioned when it comes to preventing abortion [unwanted pregnancy].

REPLY: No.. but abortion removes her the farthest from what she was placed on earth for.

:shk:
Does this include men as well?
Just gets worse and worse. My primary purpose in life ['on earth'] is not procreation.

And, no, taking a pill doesn't give a woman the "RIGHT" to have sex. Responsibility for one's actions should be followed.

You just contradicted yourself. Clearly you do not think women have the right to have sex.. even if they have taken precautions

".... It's only performed in 1% of abortions."

REPLY: No... 1% is hardly correct.

PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION is performed during the fifth month of gestation or later. The woman's cervix is dilated, and the fetus is partially removed, feet first. The surgeon INSERTS a sharp object into the back of the fetus' head, removes it, and inserts a vacuum tube which SUCKS OUT the brains. The head of the fetus contracts at this point and allows the fetus to be more easily removed.

..... and while the child feels pain, discomfort, etc.... how humanitarian.
................................................

You didn't 'correct' me on the number. Only provided me with a description of this operation. Care to give a source? A medical site would be credible.. prolife propaganda sites are not.

".... (a) political stunt designed to put the spotlight on the issue rather than saving that 1%."

REPLY: Yeah, what the heck..... that 1% only means 50,000 lives.

So it is 1% then? I see you just used it as a segwey to post the description for shock value rather than share real information. Subtle.
If you looked into it you would find that this op is usually performed when the fetus is severly malformed.. start from page one if you would like to know more.. this has already been hashed out.

ON TOPIC.. what are your personal views on pro-life violence?

".... Less single mothers on welfare?"

REPLY: How about less women having kids if they can't afford them, and expecting the taxpayers to pay for their indescretion?

So.. you don't want them aborting.. but you don't want them going onto welfare.. are the streets okay to raise a child?
Indescretion? Oh I see.. it's not the not using condoms/the pill that you want them to be punnished for but the having sex part.

".... Or some woman who had an abortion at 15 graduates and goes onto medical school."

REPLY: Yeah..... THAT happens every day.

We even have female doctors now. They make up about half of them.

And if that child had grown up, man or woman, to be another Einstein, or a doctor... then there'd be two professionals in the family.

And how does a 15 year old girl with no support raise her child? Apparently you don't even want your tax dollars paying for her food and shelter.. let alone paying for her to get through highschool, med school and giving this child you care so much about a life that doesn't include abuse, poverty and foster homes. Somehow I don't think you really care for that 'little baby' but more about how it got there.. one would think pro-lifers would be happy that they are helping to support 'saved babies'. That high moral ground sounds very convenient.. people to judge and condemn as far as the eye can see.

Riley it is more on how good it sound i really dont think that they thought it out. i guess they think religion will stop them from having babies and the 15yr old mother is temporary. Bunch of hoouuwee
Thoughts that poor people should not have children in very mainstream in think tanks in DC. Well thats until there is a war to be fought.

BTW what is EVIL??? It seems to me it changes everyday and who judes who is evil?
you know the saying my splinter and your log...

Originally posted by BlackThought
Thoughts that poor people should not have children in very mainstream in think tanks in DC. Well thats until there is a war to be fought.

Hmm.. breeding to create soldiers? .. the way you make sure kids get pregnant is teach them that abstinence works and tell them that it's masturbation; not sex that will get them pregnant.

BTW what is EVIL??? It seems to me it changes everyday and who judes who is evil?
you know the saying my splinter and your log...

Supposedly the bible.. but then again that actually has an abortion performed in it by a priest [adultary test via herbal abortion] so I guess if it's done in a 'holy duty' it's not evil [like the crusades ].

".... but I rarely see a man's responsibility even mentioned when it comes to preventing abortion [unwanted pregnancy]."

REPLY: I agree with you on this; but it takes two to tango, so the woman plays a part in making sure of the use of a condom. In either case, they are not 100% protection from pregnancy; only one thing is.

".... Does this include men as well? My primary purpose in life ['on earth'] is not procreation."

REPLY: I didn't say it was; you or any other woman/lady. Having children, however, is the thing that most exemplifies her womanhood (assuming, of course, that she is capable of childbearing.)

".... Clearly you do not think women have the right to have sex.. even if they have taken precautions."

REPLY: No. I was responding specifically to some arbitrary "right".

".... So it is 1% then? I see you just used it as a segwey to post the description for shock value rather than share real information."

REPLY: No, I used your figure of 1% as an example for statistcal purposes. The info shown is shocking.

".... what are your personal views on pro-life violence?"

REPLY: The opening of this thread pertaining to all the violence is more than a bit exagerated; and even if accurate, how many years did it cover? I'll answer that whatever violence caused by pro-life activists doesn't compare in the least to what has happened INSIDE the clinics.

".... So.. you don't want them aborting.. but you don't want them going onto welfare.. are the streets okay to raise a child?"

REPLY: Yes...... if you can't afford a child, don't have any. If you can't afford contraception, don't have sex. How difficult is that?

".... We even have female doctors now. They make up about half of them."

REPLY: I know that, and God bless them. I was referring to the example you gave of someone who aborted at 15 then going on to medical school.

".... and how does a 15 year old girl with no support raise her child? Apparently you don't even want your tax dollars paying for her food and shelter.. let alone paying for her to get through highschool, med school".

REPLY: This goes back to the thought I had concerning COMMEN SENSE in not having children you can't afford to raise. No.... no tax dollars to those who have no common sense. Let their parents pay for it. Education is a priviledge, not a "right." It's long past the time to get government out of the education system

you only want the government in the schools to recruit for the army. LOL

I hope you never make a mistake because apparently you are perfect. I guess as a youth you always in control of your hrmones and attitudes. To me to doom a child becasue they had a child is worse that killing them. While painting with a wide brush you basically condone killing of innocent people for your casue very American of you. yeah right

Originally posted by zappafan1

".... So.. you don't want them aborting.. but you don't want them going onto welfare.. are the streets okay to raise a child?"

REPLY: Yes...... if you can't afford a child, don't have any. If you can't afford contraception, don't have sex. How difficult is that?

Very difficult for those who actually live in the real world.. and for anyone who has ever experienced what it's like to be a horny teenager.
And yes.. I think contraception should be free and readily available.. sorry if your tax dollars are paying to prevent HIV from being spread and the like.

REPLY: This goes back to the thought I had concerning COMMEN SENSE in not having children you can't afford to raise. No.... no tax dollars to those who have no common sense. Let their parents pay for it. Education is a priviledge, not a "right." It's long past the time to get government out of the education system

So.. you think you have the right to judge not only how lower class kids behave sexually, you think poor people shouldn't have kids but also think they should be denied an education if they can't afford one? One would think you would be glad that financial circumstance forces these girls to have abortions. Poor people are just a drain on society to you.. so what do you care if their offsring live or die? You don't even think they have the 'right' to a basic education.

[edit on 20-1-2006 by riley]

You don’t want to pay for school and health care of poor individuals I do not want to pay for the war, Coprporate welfare such as subsidies, and isreal what should we do then?

".... Very difficult for those who actually live in the real world.. and for anyone who has ever experienced what it's like to be a horny teenager.
And yes.. I think contraception should be free and readily available.. sorry if your tax dollars are paying to prevent HIV from being spread and the like."

REPLY: That's the point... it's not "free" if it comes out of the pocket of someone else. But this thread isn't about not getting prednant, or the ways to prevent it.
90% of HIV is transmitted by Homo's, which is also preventable; In America it's the only disease that's mostly transmitted by "choice."

Again, infanticide is mosty done through feminist rage, or "convenience."

".... So.. you think you have the right to judge not only how lower class kids behave sexually, you think poor people shouldn't have kids but also think they should be denied an education if they can't afford one?"

REPLY: No... I didn't say that, and I didn't specify "poor" kids. local and state taxes should pay for it. Government screws up everything it touches, and the DOE is one of best examples. Besides that, government run schools is one of the ten planks of communism

".... One would think you would be glad that financial circumstance forces these girls to have abortions."

REPLY: No.... lack of common sense, not financial circumstances.

".... Poor people are just a drain on society to you."

REPLY: No.... a drain on the economy.

".... You don't even think they have the 'right' to a basic education."

REPLY: Could you please show me where it's a "right?" Wait... let me check; No... it's not here in the Bill of Rights.

How can you judge who god wants to be killed and who should not? There will always be people on each side.

God gave us authority to carry out his laws. An eye for an eye dude.

Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: That's the point... it's not "free" if it comes out of the pocket of someone else.

I think the whole world can benefit in trying to prevent aids transmission.. but if you don't mind your kids catching the virus THEY can pay for it.

But this thread isn't about not getting prednant, or the ways to prevent it.

Yes it's about pro-life violence. You trivialised it's occurence and avoided the question of whether you agree with it morally.. and harped on how and why women get pregnant and have abortions as though it somehow your business. Don't want them to have free contraception, condoms and education? Don't get on your high horse when they get abortions. Simple.

90% of HIV is transmitted by Homo's,

:shk:
Re-reading.. yes.. you really did write that. Either you made it up or a just parroting someone else's stupidity. The figure is apx 50%. It is no longer a 'gay diease'- it hasn't been for about fifteen years.


AIDS stats

Again, infanticide is mosty done through feminist rage, or "convenience."

Infanticide is usually commited either by young girls who have been hiding their pregnancies from mum and dad and don't know what to do with the baby when they give birth so they get dumped in a bin and die., or by women who have post natal depression.

REPLY: No... I didn't say that, and I didn't specify "poor" kids.

Which other kids can't afford contraception and education?

Besides that, government run schools is one of the ten planks of communism

It's kind of a democratic/equality thing.

".... One would think you would be glad that financial circumstance forces these girls to have abortions."

REPLY: No.... lack of common sense, not financial circumstances.

To have common sense about something you need to actually know something about it. Not all girls who get pregnant know that 'pulling out' might not work, that virgins can indeed get pregnant or that condoms can break. They need to be EDUCATED to know how to protect themselves.. hence sex ed.

".... Poor people are just a drain on society to you."

REPLY: No.... a drain on the economy.

There is such a thing as 'working poor'.. they are who keep the economy going.

".... You don't even think they have the 'right' to a basic education."

REPLY: Could you please show me where it's a "right?" Wait... let me check; No... it's not here in the Bill of Rights.

Well I'm not american.. but I'm pretty sure it's a human right written up by the UN.

[edit on 21-1-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by deesw
God gave us authority to carry out his laws. An eye for an eye dude.

Eye for an eye? Here's what Christ says about that in Matthew 5:38 -

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others?"

[edit on 23-1-2006 by saint4God]

they want their cake and eat it too. Kill a person you dont like but dont kill an unborn child. But also dont take care of it either with community cooperation. So when some of the children cannot connect with society then commit a capital crime kill the same person you was trying to save. black is black black is not grey. If killing is a sin and it is writtin you are suppose to show your enemies a better way by "living in one". Then death should not come to your lips or then you are a hypocite, opportinustic, or whatever.

".... I think the whole world can benefit in trying to prevent aids transmission.. but if you don't mind your kids catching the virus THEY can pay for it."

REPLY: I agree with the first line of the above, but the number of kids in the U.S. is so small as to be nonexistent. The graphs you posted are for AFRICA, and would not come close to being accurate in the U.S. which is what I was talking about. I'll see what I can find as to statistics in the U.S.

".... Yes it's about pro-life violence. You trivialised it's occurence and avoided the question of whether you agree with it morally."

REPLY: No, I don't agree with it, but I'd still like to know how many years were considered in the statistics, the fact that much of it is BS, and I stand by the fact that what goes on inside the clinics is worse, and more widespread by far than whatever violence happens outside.

".... Either you made it up or a just parroting someone else's stupidity. The figure is apx 50%. It is no longer a 'gay diease'- it hasn't been for about fifteen years."

REPLY: Again, not true in the U.S.

".... Infanticide is usually commited either by young girls who have been hiding their pregnancies from mum and dad and don't know what to do with the baby when they give birth so they get dumped in a bin and die...."

REPLY: Your definition, and you can use it if you wish.

".... or by women who have post natal depression."

REPLY: A recent study indicated that 7 out of 10 women who have an abortion go through emotional and psycological depression much more severe than the post-natal type.

".... To have common sense about something you need to actually know something about it. Not all girls who get pregnant know that 'pulling out' might not work, that virgins can indeed get pregnant or that condoms can break. They need to be EDUCATED to know how to protect themselves.. hence sex ed."

REPLY: We have sex-ed here, and are taught most things that the parents should be discussing with their kids.... condoms are given away in some schools. However, judging about the number of "abortions" here.... yeah... sex-ed really works.... NOT!!!

"....Don't want them to have free contraception, condoms and education?"

REPLY: Parental education is the only thing that's free; everything else comes out of the pockets of someone else.

".... There is such a thing as 'working poor'.. they are who keep the economy going."

REPLY: ..... maybe where you live; certainly not here.

".... Well I'm not american.. but I'm pretty sure it's a human right written up by the UN."

REPLY: Something thought up by the most corrupt organization in the world???? I've a clue for you, as I've mentioned before: a "right" is something that does not place a burden, financial or otherwise, on someone else. IE: freedom of religion; freedom of speech, etc.....

where are YOUR sources of info then? I need to know where your numbers come from? My question to you if you knew a pro lifer was about to blow something up like a terrorist would you call the fbi? Or will the idea of gods work will stop you?

God gave us authority to carry out his laws. An eye for an eye dude.

be very careful of how ye judge becasue ye shall be judged to...

That is why i like the 36 chambers of life. Before you are judged in the afterlife you spend 36 lifetimes as other animails then they judge you by weighting you heart. You know already if you have led a decient life. We cannot alway be self serving to a belief system that if the tables were turned you would find yourself in a painted corner.

They talk of compassion and forgiveness but do they really in their heart believe in redemption?

Funny thing is i thought sin was sin if that is true who many things have you did wrong?(youthful indescretions)

[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]

Originally posted by zappafan1
".... I think the whole world can benefit in trying to prevent aids transmission.. but if you don't mind your kids catching the virus THEY can pay for it."

REPLY: I agree with the first line of the above, but the number of kids in the U.S. is so small as to be nonexistent.

Incorrect.

The graphs you posted are for AFRICA,

Incorrect. Please read the whole thing.

and would not come close to being accurate in the U.S. which is what I was talking about. I'll see what I can find as to statistics in the U.S.

Please give a source [I'd find one but thus far you haven't ben reading them properly anyway so I see little point].

".... Yes it's about pro-life violence. You trivialised it's occurence and avoided the question of whether you agree with it morally."

REPLY: No, I don't agree with it, but I'd still like to know how many years were considered in the statistics, the fact that much of it is BS, and I stand by the fact that what goes on inside the clinics is worse, and more widespread by far than whatever violence happens outside.

Usually abortion is performed in the first trimestor when the unformed fetus is the size of a peanut. It is doubtful that they would experience pain at such an early stage of development.. and it is doubtful that they would even be concious of their own being. Their 'personhood' is questionable [though you may think the value of the mother is less]. Some 'pro-lifers' have conciously and deliberatly commited murder with malicious intent.. they are well aware of what their actions are. A security guared in melbourne was shot dead by one of these lunatics. He had 5 [?] kids.. such ethics they say they have about the lives of children yet they do not hesistate taking a father away from them.

".... Either you made it up or a just parroting someone else's stupidity. The figure is apx 50%. It is no longer a 'gay diease'- it hasn't been for about fifteen years."

REPLY: Again, not true in the U.S.

Proof please? I believe it is in fact african american women that are in a high risk group [refer to earlier link].. they are not gay men.

".... Infanticide is usually commited either by young girls who have been hiding their pregnancies from mum and dad and don't know what to do with the baby when they give birth so they get dumped in a bin and die...."

REPLY: Your definition, and you can use it if you wish.

My definition is correct. Yours is incorrect and is just missusing it as a buzz word. A developing fetus is a fetus.. an infant is a small child.

".... or by women who have post natal depression."

REPLY: A recent study indicated that 7 out of 10 women who have an abortion go through emotional and psycological depression much more severe than the post-natal type.

Where did you get this figure from? Explain how it is relevent to infanticide? Maybe you could also explain how it is 'more severe' than the 'post natial type'? How did they measure this? Why would they measure this? They are not relevent to eachother. Clinical depression is clinical depression.. psychosis is psychosis. It's like saying getting bitten by a venomous snake on the left arm is more dangerous than the right. If you understood the disorder you wouldn't have parroted this stupidity in the first place. Where are you getting your information? It is not factual.

REPLY: We have sex-ed here, and are taught most things that the parents should be discussing with their kids.... condoms are given away in some schools. However, judging about the number of "abortions" here.... yeah... sex-ed really works.... NOT!!!

Apparently it used to be not too bad in your country.. that is until your president decided to teach 'abstinence only' instead [including that masturbation causes pregnancy ].

".... There is such a thing as 'working poor'.. they are who keep the economy going."

REPLY: ..... maybe where you live; certainly not here.

You don't have fruit pickers, factory workers, road builders, electricians, truck drivers, supermarket workers, bus drivers, train drivers, mailmen etc etc. there? The common man is who keeps the ecomonies going.. if they all went of strike at once your whole country would come to a halt.. they have no idea how much power they actually yield.

REPLY: Something thought up by the most corrupt organization in the world???? I've a clue for you, as I've mentioned before: a "right" is something that does not place a burden, financial or otherwise, on someone else. IE: freedom of religion; freedom of speech, etc.....

So you have a problem with all children in the world having the right to an education? I'm confused.. you think they have the right to be born yet don't think they should have the option to escape proverty as they grow older? You do not care about these kids obviously. Why do you insist that what a woman does with her own body is your business.. yet you refuse to accept any of the responsibilty of butting into her business? Why don't you care what happens to kids after they are born ['no free education!']? WHY is it your business before hand and not after?

BTW. Please learn how to use the quotes:

swap ( for [

(quote)blablabla(/quote)

".... Where did you get this figure from? Explain how it is relevent to infanticide? Maybe you could also explain how it is 'more severe' than the 'post natial type'? How did they measure this? Why would they measure this? They are not relevent to eachother. Clinical depression is clinical depression.. psychosis is psychosis. It's like saying getting bitten by a venomous snake on the left arm is more dangerous than the right. If you understood the disorder you wouldn't have parroted this stupidity in the first place. Where are you getting your information? It is not factual."

REPLY: I believe that the American Psychological Institute is a reliable source, who get their statistics from doctors, psycologists, and tens of thousands of patients all over America.

".... Apparently it used to be not too bad in your country.. that is until your president decided to teach 'abstinence only' instead [including that masturbation causes pregnancy."

REPLY: The president never said masturbation causes pregnancy.... it's an urban myth. Common sense would indicate that abstinence is the only thing that prevents pregnancy, and goes a long way towards preventing communicable diseases.... much better than condom use.

".... fruit pickers, factory workers, road builders, electricians, truck drivers, supermarket workers, bus drivers, train drivers, mailmen etc etc. there?"

REPLY: You said "working poor"..... and the only groups in the list you wrote, above, that might be considered the "working poor".... are fruit pickers and supermarket workers. Every other group of people you mention are very well paid, starting around $14.00 per hour.

".... The common man is who keeps the ecomonies going.. if they all went of strike at once your whole country would come to a halt.. they have no idea how much power they actually yield."

REPLY: The main reason many people in the groups above have "power" is because they are unionized. This is true in part, but it is also the people who own companies who play the largest part in the economy, for without them there would be no jobs. Also, as for a strike, it would do little to the economy as they could be fired and others would take their place. Net effect= Zero.

".... So you have a problem with all children in the world having the right to an education?"

REPLY: I'm not concerned with the children of the world; I'm referencing kids here in America. The laws of other countries are what they are. I'm saying that here in America there is no "right" to an education, just as there is no "right" to a car, a job, a house, an income, or any of the other things some people here call a "civil right."

".... I'm confused.. you think they have the right to be born yet don't think they should have the option to escape proverty as they grow older?

REPLY: Yes, they have that right, but the responsibility falls mostly upon the parents and local government.

".... Why do you insist that what a woman does with her own body is your business."

REPLY: You just don't get it, and probably never will. If it was just about the womans body, it would be a different matter. But it's not.... there's another "body" that is being affected in the most severe manner. Many of the abortion rights groups here are women. They scream about that from the rooftops. I find it hypocritical because about half of the victims of abortions are female.
I don't care how "small" a fetus is when aborted. That doesn't change the fact that the majority of abortions are done out of convenience..... not rape or medical emergency.

".... Why don't you care what happens to kids after they are born ['no free education?]"

REPLY: Nothing is "free."

BTW. Please learn how to use the quotes.

REPLY: I used to quote that way, but I was warned about, and had points taken, for excessive quoting.
I'm done with this issue, because those like yourself (and I'm not knocking you... you have a right to your opinion) will never understand the many ways abortions harm a culture, an economy, or any number of things. As I mentioned earlier... if someone were to pray to their Creator and asked why He never sent us someone who had a cure for (place you disease here, AIDS or whatever), to which He replies: ".... I did... and you aborted him/her."
Bye!