Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: ctj83

It actually sounds to me like the studies are of people who 'believe' they have experienced something strange. When in fact those involved hinted that they were actually 'exposed to an electromagnetic field leading to inflammation and other biomarkers'. So the 'perceived' experience was generated by the exposure to an EM field.

The "To the Stars" Group have numerous people involved in biology and associated fields. All chosen by Tom DeLonge to look for aliens? Or were they chosen by someone else, higher up the food chain, to look into something entirely different?

a reply to: mirageman

All chosen by Tom DeLonge to look for aliens? Or were they chosen by someone else, higher up the food chain, to look into something entirely different?

Like what Mirageman ?

originally posted by: ctj83
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That’s very interesting Kev! You may well be right. I’m going on what I can find so you have me at a disadvantage.

For example. The abduction implant thing wasn’t someone else’s theory though - at least that’s not how I heard it - that was something he brought up and I thought had changed?

He’s a gentleman, your right but I have heard him put down Roswell numerous times in the past?

Personally I find the idea of implants a bit incredulous and can’t find previous evidence of him talking about it on any positive way?

When he came to my house, and we discussed all those things, you want to know what our Roswell
discussion was?

I said "Roswell" and started laughing, he started laughing, and that was it.

Not even worth discussion. Not from a science standpoint. (a reality standpoint).

But... it would have been worth discussing. In a different way.

For example, according to the Carrion book, the "Ghost Rockets" over Sweden
were the first major UFO Psyop, and I'll let you guess what the second one
was..

As for "implants"...

If the people in this thread think something is pure BS, then I'd follow
your instincts...

But as I said.. a scientist always gives something a chance.. until there
is definitive proof. Especially if it is "the party line". Ask any publishing
scientist.. for example there is a huge pressure to worship at the altar
of string theory.. even though everyone knows it's pretty much a failure
of science..

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

But as I said.. a scientist always gives something a chance.. until there
is definitive proof.

Thing is, if scientists don't (or may not for a variety of reasons) share what they do and do not know, generation after generation will keep running around in circles going nowhere. Due to leaps in technology there will still be some progress, but it all remains a more complicated version of the middle ages ... but perhaps that's just what it is ...

originally posted by: zeroPointOneQ

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

But as I said.. a scientist always gives something a chance.. until there
is definitive proof.

Thing is, if scientists don't (or may not for a variety of reasons) share what they do and do not know, generation after generation will keep running around in circles going nowhere. Due to leaps in technology there will still be some progress, but it all remains a more complicated version of the middle ages ... but perhaps that's just what it is ...

If you haven't noticed, we are returning to the middle ages.

If you have't noticed, UFOs/Religion/Spirituality/Politics is about perception management.

Any science to come out of any of "this stuff" will be rather accidental.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Thanks Kev, that was an excellent response and it really makes sense!

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: ctj83

It actually sounds to me like the studies are of people who 'believe' they have experienced something strange. When in fact those involved hinted that they were actually 'exposed to an electromagnetic field leading to inflammation and other biomarkers'. So the 'perceived' experience was generated by the exposure to an EM field.

The "To the Stars" Group have numerous people involved in biology and associated fields. All chosen by Tom DeLonge to look for aliens? Or were they chosen by someone else, higher up the food chain, to look into something entirely different?

When I was a kid, I read a pulp-era science fiction story, where the main plot element, was ONE scientist
discovered that all the new fangled radio waves humans were generating, were destroying everyone's
mind.

*cough* *cough*

If you read NIH papers, everyone says the effects are "almost negligible" in most cases.
Its' that almost that bothers me.

If you pair up cattle mutilation = prions in our brains from the food supply.
If you pair up chronic inflamation in the brain = some sort of EMF

etc etc.

There really are dark, ugly truths out there, that people don't want to face.

That aside, we are still apparently trying to convince Russia and China that we
have crashed UFO's, so that they should continue to be scare of us.. and to
research all this "stuff" in an "arms race" with us. (Look at the wand, not the
palm of the hand..).

Then add on top of all this, another layer of deception, that the chuckle
heads themselves are all caught up in...

It's quite interesting.

But from outside, from the public standpoint.. it's "pathetic" as there is
no "there", 'there'.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Far worse since now everyone has a voice/platform/medium.

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

Exactly.

The Internet magnifies the power of harmful memes by 1000000000000000 x.

Unfortunately this thread is getting a little too dogmatic, like folks know something.

I think it gets problematic when we don’t even know that we don’t know

cheers

a reply to: Willtell

No comment....

a reply to: ctj83

"1) I noticed you mentioned that this recent set of revelations might be intended to generate more antennae syndrome. This seems different than the publicly stated antennae syndrome by Dr Green, Dr Nolan et al. Could you expand on your version and how it differs from the UAP Group one (if it really does at all). "


A great question. The "Antenna Syndrome" that I've been researching for close to 50 years is "somewhat different" than what the group is (apparently) researching. I'm only tangentially interested in Terahertz radiation and things of that nature, affecting the brain. As I believe you know, the Antenna Syndrome I'm more familiar with is more of a voluntary process. But it appears that many of the same issues and results occur. Honestly, I'd love to collaborate on the project, but my invitation must have gotten lost in the mail.


"2) It seems to me that UAP Group theory is predicated on Uri Gellar having genuine paranormal powers. If not then the remote viewing program and the basis of the UAP Group antennae theory are built on quicksand. Do you consider his kind of antenna different than the type you think might be being generated by this release? If so, don't you think the threshold/level for 'hosting' / incubation is very low indeed? "

Another great observation. Yes, if Uri Geller and Ingo Swan /Pat Price are fakes / exaggerated, then the entire thing falls apart. Well mostly. The phenomenon may be overblown/false, but if brains are being "damaged" and people are hallucinating these things, that in and of itself must be researched.

I can't speak authoratatatively on the threshhold for incubation, other thant to say those two LNL scientists were talking suicide, after a couple days around Uri Geller. And those guys were presumably not starry eyed new agers, but hardened physicists at a nuclear weapons lab.

"3) As we've discussed among ourselves, I believe any sentient phenomena would probably bother cattle as much as humans, and they too would demonstrate the brain and immunological changes that experiences have been found to? I know that you don't believe this is the case. Could you hazard a guess as to why probes/observation devices are still being deployed to these sites by BASS? "

Humans ARE cattle. I can't speak authoritatively on cattle mutilation either. I'm just assuming it's human activity, checking out prions and radioactive contamination effects. The "Phenomenon" that I know, is not so crude. It's humans who are crude. I'm saying this from the perspective of various actors involved with this stuff.

"Sorry for the interrogation - but I think that these will help."

Any time.. and these are just my semi-educated opinion.s

"Also - regarding implants, as I stated, Jacques has changed his mind as he says himself. The overall idea of Jacques changing his opinion on the phenomena is quite clear in both interviews but is explicitly stated by one of the interviewers. "
Honestly? I think that sometimes he's being played.

"it was surprising to listen to Dr. Vallee admitting how, after being very skeptical initially about the nature of the odd objects being extracted out of the bodies of alleged abductees –justifiably so, given how dermatologists are well acquainted with all the kind of odd foreign bodies which get harmlessly lodged beneath the skin, to which patients will have no recollection of how they got there if they had an incident at an early age– he is now convinced some of these implants deserve further scrutiny. Perhaps it was Jeremy Corbell and the work he made with Leir just before he died what made Vallee changed his opinion, but in any case it was refreshing to once again corroborate that the reason Dr. Vallee is exceptional in this field, is because he’s not afraid of reinventing himself and change his mind about the phenomenon from time to time; unlike most researchers who may start by submitting one interesting theory or case, and then spend the rest of their career DEFENDING their position against any type of dissent and criticism –but then again, that’s what good scientists DO when presented with new data.

So either he's changed his mind since you spoke with him, or he's being very misleading. He's in no way going along with someone else's theory here or being a gentleman (although he is) - and that's going to be very clear to anyone who listens to both interviews (Skeptico and Grimerica. It's that point - where he differs from what you are saying that interests me - and what brought on this change so recently?"

Honestly? I think that sometimes he's being played.

If you are going to run a successful psyop, you've got to pick some people with an unassailable reputation to hide behind.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

KPB your saying JV visited your home.

Tell him to come on ATS so we could slap him around a bit

Just joking of course...

Me and GUT can cross examine him

You could be his defense attorney

mm could be the judge

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

KPB your saying JV visited your home.

Tell him to come on ATS so we could slap him around a bit

Just joking of course...

Me and GUT can cross examine him

You could be his defense attorney

mm could be the judge

I doubt that Jacques Vallee would bother to be so gracious to come on ATS, because he knows that his argument doesn't have a leg to stand on in this debate.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I thought Uri Gellar had stopped "demonstrating" his so called powers after being found wanting when asked to prove his gifts in a controlled eviroment type scenario a few years ago, and had gone on to dowsing and such, wanting nothing else to do with that type of group?

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I thought Uri Gellar had stopped "demonstrating" his so called powers after being found wanting when asked to prove his gifts in a controlled eviroment type scenario a few years ago, and had gone on to dowsing and such, wanting nothing else to do with that type of group?

I do know that James Randi was debunked and humiliated.
Frankly, I do not follow Uri Geller these days. I've only discussed his exploits
from the old SRI/LNL days and read various accounts.

Fraud is rampant in a lot of fields... and armchair commentators such
as myself aren't in a position to personally test anyone stringently.

My participation in UFO and "paranormal" discussions is a tangental
hobby for me, not my primary field of research.

So I don't have a horse in this race.

But yes, if anyone is a fraud, I'd always love to know.

Kev

Jukiodone has a point. On one hand I can't find any information about terahertz radiation damage beyond the skin; but then the Rendlesham guy had his stuff covered by the VA. So what else can shred a heart valve, anyone have ideas? The whole 'resonance' thing reminds me of the psychotronic weapon stuff Kit was digging into back in the 70s with Tom Bearden/Ira Einhorn - 'fatal' EM radiation that could leak in into anything, etc. Total bunk.

As for JV - I feel the same as Kev. I've had suspicions for a long time, but I've largely kept it to myself.

I'm not sure what is going on here, but this really smells. If it implodes, it will take everyone down with it. The UFO thing will be dead as a doornail. I would really like to know why all these people willingly threw themselves into a fire for no benefit. Is this some counterintelligence thing? Is Kit Green kinda right - but it's actually that the government is full of crazy people? I get the feeling this is the last gasp - if this goes, everything goes.



edit: about to go on vacation, dunno if I can log in for the next week or so. I'll see what I can do.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I do know that James Randi was debunked and humiliated before he died. Frankly, I do not follow Uri Geller these days.

I thought Randi was very much alive still? He certainly had a problem with Uri Geller, and was not always honest about his debunking efforts of others.

Here is Geller outfoxed by Randi on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.



But then how do you explain Uri Geller using is powers to help England in Euro '96?

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
Jukiodone

if this goes, everything goes.

I agree to disagree...

a reply to: mirageman

That's the famous example of his failure.

I"m not a URI Geller apologist you've noticed?

He did work for Mossad apparently.

He's a fascinating fellow.. I don't really have an opinion on him.

There are mountains of evidence that he was genuine.

There is certainly evidence that he was not.

I don't know.

But like I've always said, "genuine" people and events are
uncommon.