Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Are we talking about the The Rosetta Deception?

The year is 1946 and the world has just emerged from years of brutal warfare that resulted not only in the deaths of millions but the creation of weapons of mass destruction. The new found peace is precarious as nations are forced into or voluntarily take sides in the two major ideological camps of communism and capitalism. The Soviet Union and the United States, once allies during the war are now openly engaged in a war of words and threats.

But there is an even greater threat from within, as the United States has been infiltrated by Soviet spies and sympathizers who are not only actively exposing US secrets and strategies to the Soviet Union but influencing policy makers at the highest levels of US Government. Some spies have voluntarily come forward and have named names, but many remain hidden and a threat, the extent of which will not be realized until much later.

Into this melee is born an organization like no other – a master guild of magicians – who will use the dark arts to tease out of the shadows the Russian spies that linger there. Their amazing performance is told here for the first time after almost seventy years of obscurity, their magic so well-conceived that their veil of illusion continues to this day.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

a reply to: mirageman

The craft were described as white and tic-tac like in shape in this case. So who decides that it's not secret technology from a potential enemy?



Perhaps they know very clearly that the orbs are not Russian.

I don't think you've understood me.

You've quoted me talking about the tic-tac shaped craft seen by Fravor which is certainly not an orb.

......"A White Tic-Tac, about the same size as a Hornet, 40-feet long with no wings," Fravor described. "Just hanging close to the water."

Source

So I don't follow you, sorry, because it wasn't an orb. This was the size of a jet fighter.

My original point was how would a pilot know whether to engage such a craft or not? Who makes the call?

You hear time and time again how military witnesses were fearful of reporting UFOs. But how do they know it's not from a foreign power and decide not to report it? Do they just let it go if it doesn't look like something out of Jane's Defence Weekly. That policy seems to be taking a huge risk that it wasn't a Russian, Chinese or even North Korean secret weapon.

a reply to: mirageman

Ahh, I stand corrected.

a reply to: mirageman

Yup.

Any opinions on the book?

a reply to: mirageman

You seem to be inferring that the only reason the military doesn't freak out about "anomalous sightings"
is that they are the cause of all of them, for purposes of training exercises, psyop/deception, etc.

Without exotic detection systems, which would be impossible to keep compartmentalized,
since they would need to be installed in most all planes/airports/control towers everywhere..
so then we'd know about them..

That is nearly the only answer, presumably.

But that leaves a most unsatisfactory after-taste to ones' pattern-matching
brain. It's missing pieces.

The "military knows about the UAP side-effects to mental perception"
as well, seems evident. And perhaps they are continuing to test and/or
deal with this as well... but they would know there is no reason to freak
out about this effect.. more often than not it's not dangerous to aircraft,
etc, just to a few pilots, who can be marginalized/dealt with
dishonestly if necessary.

So a combination of the two?

One thing that people often miss, is that the government too, can be
doing something that is a 'work in progress' - that the "government"
is not a cardboard cut-out bad guy that has everything figured out
at all times.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: mirageman

You seem to be inferring that the only reason the military doesn't freak out about "anomalous sightings"
is that they are the cause of all of them, for purposes of training exercises, psyop/deception, etc.

Without exotic detection systems, which would be impossible to keep compartmentalized,
since they would need to be installed in most all planes/airports/control towers everywhere..
so then we'd know about them..

That is nearly the only answer, presumably.

But that leaves a most unsatisfactory after-taste to ones' pattern-matching
brain. It's missing pieces.

The "military knows about the UAP side-effects to mental perception"
as well, seems evident. And perhaps they are continuing to test and/or
deal with this as well... but they would know there is no reason to freak
out about this effect.. more often than not it's not dangerous to aircraft,
etc, just to a few pilots, who can be marginalized/dealt with
dishonestly if necessary.

So a combination of the two?

One thing that people often miss, is that the government too, can be
doing something that is a 'work in progress' - that the "government"
is not a cardboard cut-out bad guy that has everything figured out
at all times.

I agree.

My theory is that The AATIP is not the only program of its kind within the DOD. Likely the AATIP was created by Reid , because he was the most powerful senator at the time and the only reason Reid does it is because Bigelow offered him (and his 5 sons) something. What I don’t know, and I don’t think we will ever know.

I think Bigelow knew the Govt had more elaborate programs to evaluate these UAP and wanted more than anything to know what they know. The problem is that programs like these don’t need or necessary want a Bigelow type person. His money is lunch money in comparison to their black program funding.

If you read the TTS report on the USS Nimitz incident ( another theory I have is this report was an official AATIP report potentially written by Elizondo himself - because of the timing of the report) a higher authority orders the re-vectoring of the fighters from their practice exercises. They are directed to investigate a potential threat while low on fuel and with no munitions on board. These are communicated to the unknown air traffic controller , but the controller directs them to continue and mentions having to use the plane as a weapon if needed.

Who has this kind of authority? It seems pretty “top of the chain” if you as me.

a reply to: 1ofthe9

I guess this is kind of related; but I thought I read somewhere that Linda Moulton Howe and Bigelow were actually an item at one time. Has anyone else heard this?

Can you be more precise please? Bigelow is married.

Not forgetting both (Wife) have had to suffer the loss of a child as well as a grandson.

Lets keep this real and of course respectful

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Any opinions on the book?

No I have never read it. It sounds interesting if a little dry from reviews.

You seem to be inferring that the only reason the military doesn't freak out about "anomalous sightings" is that they are the cause of all of them, for purposes of training exercises, psyop/deception, etc.

I am saying that occurs in some cases for sure. In particular I suspect the story TTSA have been promoting is some kind of deception. As posted earlier in the thread the Nimitz was in port during a training exercise that lasted weeks. The training equipment also showed:

"All the ships see radar, video, IFF (Identification Friend or Foe); there's no difference. You can't see the difference between real world now and what the operators were seeing during the exercise."

There are other cases as well where it seems that a test (unbeknown to those being tested) was taking place. People in charge of guarding nuclear facilities appear to have decided against reporting UFOs until years later. If everything is a test then so be it. They are not in that case true unknowns.

What seems to be a potentially serious problem is if a foreign unfriendly power developed something and everyone in the US military just lets it go unreported because they consider it to be a UFO.

Does a section of the military know what these mysterious objects really are?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

some exotic detection systems can be compartmentalized and kept secret. but I agree they wouldn't be everywhere. but no reason to believe most people wouldn't know about them. one of the things (a certain discussed member who made a spectacle with his posts but departed just as colourfuly never to return) did that got the attention of some forum members is because he casually tossed out the actual project name of a classified one. luckily it went over the heads of just about everyone and no real damage was done.

I don't think all of the military related sightings are for psyop purposes. probably most of the time they are just seeing a asset in testing, training or just heading somewhere.

there's a spot thats been quiet for a while where you could see many nights out of the week odd aircraft sized orbs dance around the sky heading from one side of a certain aerospace industry based valley to the other. several at a time. many locals from all walks knew about it, but didnt really care or talk about it unless brought up. to them it was just normal military stuff theyve seen for years and of no concern . whoever was flying them made no real attempt to hide themselves. it was obvious from watching them they were training or testing. there was no woo in watching them just 'ain't that something! look at it go and how it moves!"

also mirageman. orbs can easily be the size of jet fighters. just look at BAE and what they're doing. the technology to make plasma of all sizes is pretty mature.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Any opinions on the book?

No I have never read it. It sounds interesting if a little dry from reviews.

You seem to be inferring that the only reason the military doesn't freak out about "anomalous sightings" is that they are the cause of all of them, for purposes of training exercises, psyop/deception, etc.

I am saying that occurs in some cases for sure. In particular I suspect the story TTSA have been promoting is some kind of deception. As posted earlier in the thread the Nimitz was in port during a training exercise that lasted weeks. The training equipment also showed:

"All the ships see radar, video, IFF (Identification Friend or Foe); there's no difference. You can't see the difference between real world now and what the operators were seeing during the exercise."

There are other cases as well where it seems that a test (unbeknown to those being tested) was taking place. People in charge of guarding nuclear facilities appear to have decided against reporting UFOs until years later. If everything is a test then so be it. They are not in that case true unknowns.

What seems to be a potentially serious problem is if a foreign unfriendly power developed something and everyone in the US military just lets it go unreported because they consider it to be a UFO.

Does a section of the military know what these mysterious objects really are?

There *could* certainly be one tiny fragment somewhere in the military/government
that knows.. something... maybe even a group as absolutely creepy and distasteful
(and harmful) as the "Collins Elite".

If you want to test a supposed "insider", just name drop "Collins Elite" and if they
start twitching or evidencing panic then you know that they are.. if they have
that dumb happy face, like so many frauds.. well then you have your answer too.

Your point does make me wonder tho.. whether both the USA and Russia (and perhaps
other actors) have developed convincing enough plasma blooms / fake UFOs,
in an effort to outsmart the other, that large parts of their own government/military
are now "outsmarted" in addition to the enemy?

BTW, that book MM... I don't find it dry.. I find it quite good.. and I'm hard to please
with books.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I'd love to know just how advanced plasma technology has gotten.
But then someone would have to shoot me.
I highly suspect that whatever plasma tech exists, was originally
copied from nature.. that's how a lot of science comes to be.

Then the question is how much of all "this" is due to "nature" and
how much due to tech. Of course you and I have different opinions
on that ratio.

But I don't know.. I suspect that you don't actually *know* either.

But good to discuss.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

well to quote a truly wise man and hero.

" Well, you see I'm not saying that I've been everywhere and I done everything. But I do know it's a pretty amazing planet we live on here, and a man would have to be some kind of fool to think we're all alone in this universe. "

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

well to quote a truly wise man and hero.

" Well, you see I'm not saying that I've been everywhere and I done everything. But I do know it's a pretty amazing planet we live on here, and a man would have to be some kind of fool to think we're all alone in this universe. "

Big Trouble in Little China?

I'm quite certain that the 95% of the Universe we can't properly interact with is TEAMING with life.

But perhaps the ENTIRE "physical universe" is the "quarantine".

Given that suffering is so rampant; given that resources are a struggle to attain.. such
evolutionary forces would tend to produce predator races... ones that NEED to be
locked up.

But neither of us know for certain.

Kev

originally posted by: mirageman
My original point was how would a pilot know whether to engage such a craft or not? Who makes the call?

I suppose the assumption is that if it's not actively attacking, then it's probably "one of ours." And the fact that pilots apparently seem to be quite reluctant to unleash their hellfire on a UFO is a clear indication of the level of compartmentalization in the services. They know that they might not have a need to know, so they play it safe.

Although there are old stories, mostly coming from the mid-50s (and some from Vietnam) that suggest pilots have a standing do not fire order for UFOs simply because they might fight back if provoked.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

yep Jack burton. it's my favorite movie. ice modeled most of my life around Jack's wisdom.

anyways, I feel life is more fun when it still retains an air of the mysterious.

I enjoyed diving much better when I didn't know the names of all the fish and their behaviours. just watching all the pretty fish flit about living their lives was much more pleasureful.

martial arts was a whole lot more fun when it was mysterious and i couldnt decipher what style or lineage a guy was doing. made movies like American Ninja and Sakura Killers a lot more plausible and enjoyable.

as i get older my stance is that sometimes its just better not really knowing in the end. ignorance is truly bliss most of the time.

a reply to: Blue Shift

well I would hope other sentient creatures don't just attack either. so maybe some of it isn't ours. and if we did see something that wasn't ours sometimes shooting it down won't lead anywhere productive or even help with your attempt to decipher the mystery.

besides. a phoenix missile probably ain't going to connect with a ufo. I also wouldn't attempt to shoot down a skylark or a agile sparrow flitting about with a .308 rifle. I know I ain't going to come close to hitting it.

whoohoooo!!! double post!!

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Agreed.

Ignorance (also called symmetry breaking in Physics) is the primary
truth of reality.

without symmetry breaking, we'd be overstimulated by everything
happening all at once. It's very unpleasant.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

life throws enough at us. no need to overload ourselves with having to discover the truth behind everything. it's like never enjoying the scent of the roses cause everytime you stop to smell them you start mentally cataloging all the chemicals youre detecting.

the problem with symmetry breaking is that all too often the observer doesn't see the man behind the curtain (boltzmann brains? quantum fluctuations?) responsible for seemingly arbitrary or random events (or percieved woo?). it's there, just too small or nebulous to be noticed at first glance and usually a single glance is all most phenomena ever gets.

but there is comfort as I said in not knowing. and disturbing powers and massive responsibility from actually knowing. sometimes it's better to just live and let live I suppose. but you know me. always torturing myself with trying to find the truth. luckily for my heart I'm heading in the direction of just living life and letting certain mystery just be. why complicate things unnecessarily.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I understand my friend.
I deleted my blog. My website. My store of papers.
the drafts of things Iv'e written that were published
by others.

It's all gone.

I too enjoy ignorance. I've only learned recently how
to do that.

But the void always calls.. few can resist it's clarion
call forever.

Kev