This is what the majority of Israelis think of Christians

a reply to: Revolution9


Are messianic Jews like the Jews for Jesus that proselytize at parades and festivals?

a reply to: Cutepants

No....

Because Christianity and Judaism are not even close dogma wise..

It is equivalent to someone believing that Lucifer was really right and won the war against god, but still call yourself a Christian..


The Christian community will consider you a wolf in sheeps clothing, trying to trick them into worshipping Satan..

Which is exactly what the Jews consider messianic Jews..

Christians trying to use their religion to sneak within Judaism to prostilatise.

Which is exactly what it is..

The Jewish religion and the “Christian version” of the Jewish religion are not the same dogmas..

Christians pretend like all the Jewish prophecies prove Christianity is true. The Jews think that is ridiculous, and that Christ doesn’t match ANY of their prophecies..

From their POV they will never be getting a son of god. No son of god was predicted and they have MANY messiahs, because to them messiah isn’t a supernatural person..

Just a regular old human.

a reply to: icanteven

Exactly. Those are almost certainly “messianic Jews” aka Christians in Jewish clothing..


Pretending to be Jewish it convert other Jews.

originally posted by: Jobeycool
Actually some of those Jews hate christians because Jesus called them hypocrits.They also pray in ritualistic ways.Jesus also came to bring a sword as well as peace.
Jesus says this is for His names sake,otherwise we could not be forgiven and all the Jews would be living with the Old Testament laws.Jesus Christ saved changed the Jewish history forever.Jesus did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill the laws.

So Jews hate Christians because jesus called them hypocrites 2000 years ago?!?!

Really lol???

originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: whywhynot

Show me one Old Testament scripture that says Christ is not the Messiah.

I’m not playing that game. You know very well that interpretation of the passages have been argued for centuries. People far more educated than I support their positions in support of their beliefs.

If you seriously want to learn why the Jews believe that their messiah has not come yet you should discuss it with a rabbi.

Lo Ammi. That is the reason. Of course looking from the inside out that is not an arguable position to preach "chosen" from.
They rejected Him and they became "lo ammi" for a time for the gentiles sake. So what you have today is a people that got disowned for awhile and they became blind to prophecy and all true meaning. Consider it collateral damage from 2 Dispensations merging and then seoerating at that moment in time. From Moses and the law to Mashiach andforgiveness and grace.

So, in their rejection Father blinded them spiritually, for a time, Lo Ammi. So what we might really be arguing here is this. Is this the end times? If so this is what we would see.

At that time His people rejected Him and they became lo ammi. They were dispursed and the prophecy clock stopped as they became spiritually blind. This led to the rise of the Church and it's age. If these were end times we would see a falling away and an end to churchianity and a sudden rise to Judaism and return to sacrifices as they once again become "ammi".

Do not look for the temple to be built, it will not happen till Mashiach builds it. No, scripture states it will be a tabernacle that will be restored where the sacrifices will be reinstated.
There are 2 tabernacles from history, Moses's and David's? I believe they have Moses tabernacle in their posession today. When they pull the trigger that tent will be up in a week or 2. Do not think you are waiting on a temple, you are not!

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: icanteven

Exactly. Those are almost certainly “messianic Jews” aka Christians in Jewish clothing..


Pretending to be Jewish it convert other Jews.

Your logic makes absolutely no sense at all. You spend way to much time pretending to know and the rest trying to frame what you think you know into a convoluted conspiracy void of facts, logic and reason. Are you trying to transfer marrano onto some christian bait and switch? Are they infiltrating Israel with dual citizenships and black market new testaments? And a jewish mother for that mitochondrial dna.
You make no sense

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Jobeycool
Actually some of those Jews hate christians because Jesus called them hypocrits.They also pray in ritualistic ways.Jesus also came to bring a sword as well as peace.
Jesus says this is for His names sake,otherwise we could not be forgiven and all the Jews would be living with the Old Testament laws.Jesus Christ saved changed the Jewish history forever.Jesus did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill the laws.

So Jews hate Christians because jesus called them hypocrites 2000 years ago?!?!

Really lol???

There are at least 2 people you are attempting to address in calling out "jews". Judaites and Canaanites. Can you tell the difference?
I will give you a very big clue. What do they call themselves today?

The "j" sound does not exist in greek, aramaic, ancient hebrew, chaldean.

It only came into existance a short few hundred years ago. Now why and how did that happen? And how would that be important to this discussion?

a reply to: bulwarkz

What?!?!

Lol..

I’m referring to all the Jews before AD and all the Jews afterward..

What the hell did the cannanites have to do with the Roman age ?!

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: bulwarkz

What?!?!

Lol..

I’m referring to all the Jews before AD and all the Jews afterward..

What the hell did the cannanites have to do with the Roman age ?!

They certainly did not vanish, just name changes. Posers even. And I am addressing your posts correctly and you make even less sense after attempting to clarify your position, or are you diflecting because you obviously make no sense.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: bulwarkz

What?!?!

Lol..

I’m referring to all the Jews before AD and all the Jews afterward..

What the hell did the cannanites have to do with the Roman age ?!

Who are you refering, historically, to "jews"? Before and after A.D. as you say

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: ntech

Who Cyrus the great???

The jesus is and was not a Jewish messiah..

The Jews have NEVER considered him one AND their messiah is not even remotely the same as a Christian Messiah..

So what your really saying is, the Christian version of a messiah will be comming back..

Because the jewsish version of a messiah , is not divine, was not predicted to die , was not predicted to be resurrected and Jesus never freed them from bondage..the primary requirement of a messiah..



PS.. I have no idea why Christians think quoting the Bible is ever proof of anything.. it is not a history book. Every testable claim it has made has been debunked..

Anyone not a devote Christian who reads that kind of response , stops reading because it is irrelevant..

Saying “but the Bible says this will happen” Is equivalent to me saying, “but I threw a quarter in and made a wish..”

To answer your questions. Yes the Jews have a point. Jesus Christ didn't fulfill all their expectations. BUT. And it's a big one. The first century Apocalypse never ended. So the answer to your 2nd question is yes. I do expect him to come back. And the reason is this.

In the first century AD as the 69th week of the Daniel 9 prophecy was winding down John the Baptist was killed. And that's a problem. Per the prophesies of Malachi he was supposed to be present along with the branches when Jesus Christ entered the temple. They weren't there. Then Jesus Christ is killed on the cross days later. Per Malachi 4 it's obvious that The curse it mentions was triggered. So looking for a curse in the old testament you come across the day of Jezreel prophecy in Hosea. Which predicts a long term severe curse was supposed to fall on Israel and Judah. And in Hosea 6 it gives a timeframe of the curse of 2000 years. Now compare that to the history of the last 2000 years. The day of Jezreel curse describes it perfectly.

So to put this simply the reason this messiah business makes no sense to you is because it's incomplete. It was supposed to conclude in the first century AD. But the Jews screwed the pooch and put it on a 2000 year detour.

And that looks like a prophecy in the process of consummation.

And PS consider this one.

The Prophesies of Daniel 8 and 11. Put the 2 prophesies together you get a string of events that are supposed to happen at the time of the end, end of days, the Apocalypse in general. And the problem there is this.

Daniel 11-2 is a perfect 500BC description of the 9-11 attacks. Then jumping to Daniel 8 you get a perfect description of the US attacking the middle east and conquering 2 nations/kings.

So when a 2500 year old end of the world prophesies start reading like recent history I get a little nervous. Especially considering the next predicted event of the series. Which would be the destruction of a number of nations around the world. And the fracturing of the US into 4 smaller nations. And if I have the timeline right it should happen by 2020.

That makes me really nervous.

a reply to: ntech

Now why are you smarter than the primary sources?!?!

Because that is not the interpretation of THE PEOPLE WHO FIRST WROTE IT DOWN....

Seems like a boatload of hubris to me..

I’m not sure how old historians think the Old Testament is, but for easy math, let’s say it was a thousand years.

So, the prophets who first recorded the Torah didn’t have that interpretation..

The inferstucture that protected the Torah for a thousand years , didn’t have that interpretation..

By your own account jesus didn’t match their phrophecy , because of some side quest that derailed it..

Which for that thousand years, no one interpreted the side quest, or fork in the phrophecy, to mean that either..

Doesn’t that seem very presumptuous to assume that....

Plus I think you are assuming that the OT and the Torah are exactly the same.. and they are not..

So how much of your interpretation comes from the Torah, and how much comes from the OT???

Any time you have a text with a couple thousand pages, your probably gonna be able to pull whatever you want to out of it’s text.

Which is why Christians have claimed the Bible supports slavery, and others it opposes slavery, that it supports killing and that it opposes killing, exc, exc, exc..


You really have to wonder if old Martin Luther knew the chaos he would cause by making his assertion that the Bible could be interpreted by anyone, and that interpretation was probably sent to you by god himself, if he doesn’t change his mind about nailing that list to the door..

a reply to: ntech

This is from Jews for Judaism..

They lay out both sides of the argument concerning the messiah prophecies.. specificlly Daniel 9, I think fairly.


Then they explain why Judaism has a completely different translation.


It’s a cool read.

It really takes the mathematical approach and lays it where and how big the jumps in logic are in that interpretation.. and what the translate wrong to make it fit.

jewsforjudaism.org...

Why do I know more than what they do? This is something a person in my situation should never admit to. But I'll tell you this.

Back in 2001 during and after the 9-11 attacks I had supernatural experiences. And no I won't tell you all of them but I'll tell you this one. I call it the tutorial.

After I figured out the secret buried in Daniel 11 I did something stupid. I said it out loud. And it triggered an apocalyptic vision. And it went like this.

Suddenly my vision faded out to a flat dark gray background. And I heard a ding in my ears. Like a hearing test. And then I wasn't in Kansas anymore. It was if I had been swept up and was being propelled into space at high speed. There was flashed and streaks of light and oddly enough numbers were passing by. The number 2 to be exact. And as I was looking at that I realized that I hadn't considered numerology as I had contemplated the prophecy.

Then the picture changed. And there I was floating in space. Looking at the stars. But it was a very strange space filled with odd stars. What I saw was the words of Daniel 11 glowing faintly against the darkness of space. And scattered among them was the stars. But they were actually little number 2's scattered through out the prophecy. Showing the points of duality.

And then after that I had this headache that lasted throughout that day.

You see now? I have a unfair advantage. A lesson on bible prophecy from the author.

a reply to: Revolution9

Once you think that being accepted is important, you've made yourself vulnerable in several ways.

a reply to: carewemust

Good call...

Just ignore all those inconvenient facts and such to keep believing what you want to...

Anything to keep from actually reevaluating your own beliefs..