This is what the majority of Israelis think of Christians

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: AMPTAH

Is that the Jewish translation of that passage??

They are not exactly the same..

Yeah, it's the same thing.

There's only one old testament, not two.

The Christians don't have their own "version" of the old testament.

They just "add" the New Testament to the Old book.

Christianity is built on top of Judaism.

Just like Jesus said to Simon the Jew,

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. -- KJV, Matthew 16:18

Jesus said he was going to build his Church on top of the "ROCK", which was the Jewish Faith. So, the Bible is composed of two parts. The "rock", which is the old traditions of Judaism, stable and true, and the promised "forgiveness for sin" part that the LORD of the old Testament said would eventually come. But, some Jews haven't "recognized" it yet.

Some Jews are still "waiting" for the messiah. They walk the earth with "closed eyes". One day, the LORD will open their eyes, and they will see "with astonishment" that the promise has already been fulfilled. The messiah came long ago, and the world has changed. It's just that they did not comprehend the transformation that has taken place right in front of their very eyes.

Then, all Jews will become Christians.

a reply to: Revolution9

Does anyone know why Jerusalem is Gods first fruit? Do you understand why it's significant? Because if you don't, you are not a part of it.

a reply to: whywhynot


Fair enough..

Jews believe Jesus was a fraud and a charlatan..

Doesn’t seem to be that big of an obsticle for them..
atleast not when it comes to paying lip service.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Did you just ignore the 2 very different texts for the same passages?!?!

I pasted the Torah’s matching verses, and they were not the same... and obviously I wasn’t cherry picking because I used the ones you quoted.

Messiah in Judaism is not the son of god, nor anyone divine..

According to The Jews have had many messiahs , none of which are named Jesus..

The Jews are expecting a HUMAN king, who’s bloodline will lead Israel into a age of peace.. after freeing them from bondage.. because being a messiah has a checklist that Jews don’t think Jesus checked a single box on..

Jews think Jesus was a fraud and a charlatan.. not a prophet, nor anyone related to their god.

You can say the Jews are wrong, but you do not get to pretend they believe what best validates your own conflicting religion.

That ya why messianic Jews are ostracized in Israel..

Because they believe Judaism is wrong by and Christianity is right.. AKA THEY ARE CHRISTIANS, not Jews..

(Religious wise, not genetic wise..)

a reply to: ketsuko

CHRISTIAN’s interpretation of JEWISH prophecy, says they will convert..

JEWISH interpretation of the JEWISH says Jesus was a fraud , they have no prediction of a son of god or divine being comming to earth, and being one of the many messiahs has a check list that Jesus didn’t match..


At least Muslims think he was holy.. rather than a fraud.

a reply to: silo13

Not according to the people who wrote it, and taught it for a thousand years or so..

Not then, not now and not anywhere in between..

A) the Jewish Torah and old testimate are not exactly the same..

B) jesus does not even remotely match the Jewish interpretation..

Say they got it just horribly wrong, that works because hypothetically Jesus came to fix all the things they had messed up, but you don’t get to assign a self validating belief to them retroactively.

I don't hate people who live in a racist, apartheid country. I despise those who have created a racist, apartheid country.

Israel isn't just a racist country, it ranks Jews by their purity of Jewish blood. A pure Jew is best. Half-Jew is far below the pure Jews in stature, money, respect. Any less than half-Jewish is not considered a Jew, but it's better than being a Gentile!


In truth, we are all the same, anyway.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: AMPTAH

Did you just ignore the 2 very different texts for the same passages?!?!

I pasted the Torah’s matching verses, and they were not the same... and obviously I wasn’t cherry picking because I used the ones you quoted.

Messiah in Judaism is not the son of god, nor anyone divine..

I still don't see the difference you refer to.

In both cases the key element of "time when God forgives sin" and "remembers the sin no more" is mentioned,
and men "don't have to be taught" about the LORD, because they'll know and understand just by hearing the word etc..
That's all there.

The coming of Jesus fulfilled that promise. But, some Jews are still atoning for their sins.

a reply to: AMPTAH

“Key element”....

Not “it is word for word the same..”

And that is just the verse you happened to quote, not me going off and finding the one verse that doesn’t match up....

Plus as. Mentioned.. it is funny that you have a better translation of JEWISH prophecy , than every other Jew in a thousand generations.....

ALL of them were wrong, but Christianity is right... about the Jewish religion.

Lol..

That’s hubris to the max right there boy...

The people who actually wrote it down and protected it for centuries, are the ones who have it wrong..

This is all news to me, so even the Jewish faith has schisms? Wow !
Live and learn is very true.

a reply to: ketsuko

Actually prophecy says that everyone in the world will confess He is Lord.

No he isn't. He was 'a' son of god. Despite the Patriarchal bent, the real meaning is all people have the power to become children of this 'god' . All of which meaning is mis understood and mis represented by the hand me down text and interpretation.

Jesus is not "lord" he was a man, made in gods image as we all are, including women.

Quit putting him on a pedestal. Thats not what he intended.

a reply to: pikestaff

There is no schism...

Pretty much all the Jews consider messianic Jews Christians..

Because they believe the Christians got it right and the Jews got it wrong..

Because messianic Jews are Christians pretending to be Jews.

a reply to: whywhynot

Jews are not awaiting a divine messiah to come to earth..

By their interpretation, there is no son of god and there have been many messiahs..

All the divine being stuff is purely Christian..

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: AMPTAH

Plus as. Mentioned.. it is funny that you have a better translation of JEWISH prophecy , than every other Jew in a thousand generations.....

It's not that. It's that as time passes, we get a better "understanding" of the same text.

The scriptures are written that way on purpose.

We see this clearly in the "Old Testament"..

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. -- KJV, Daniel 12:4

The scriptures are "sealed" to "complete understanding" until mankind approaches the end of the time cycle.

This is why, when Jesus came, many Jews could not understand his words and deeds.

Those Jews didn't understand their own book.

Many Jews today still don't understand their own scriptures.

Their own scriptures say that they aren't intended to understand until "a later time".

So, the knowledgeable Jews understand that they themselves don't know everything that is mentioned in their own book.

The scriptures are partly a "revelation" a "received doctrine", and not intended that everyone should understand immediately on reading the text.

So, yeah. The Christians have "the correct" interpretation of the Jewish scriptures, because the Christians have the "interpretation" of the "later times".

Some Jews are still "looking backwards" to what the old Rabbis understood, before the coming of Jesus.

That's why some Jews get it wrong today.

a reply to: AMPTAH

A better understanding than the guy who first wrote it down?!?!

That’s not the way the “telephone game” works lol..

The message gets harder to accurately interpret the farther from the source you get.. not the closer you are to the source.

And SOME Jews wouldn’t just have it wrong today.. ALL the Jews would have had it wrong the entire time..


To Jews Jesus is a fraud and a charlatan.. not a prophet. So there are no religion Jews (as opposed to genetic Jews) who “have it right..”



But that said at least you are saying the Jews were just horribly wrong, not the Sunday school interpretation where people believe the Jews were and are expecting a son of god messiah..

All that is fair.. as I have said before, Jesus hypothetically came to fix what was wrong. So the logic works..




Added in edit:

To be fair that verse of Daniel does match the Torah exactly.. or close enough where I consider it exactly.

However MANY Christians preachers have learned Hebrew, been shocked at the differences in the Torah and the OT and converted to Judaism.

The greenbay packer super stud “the reverend” reggie white for one.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: AMPTAH

To Jews Jesus is a fraud and a charlatan.. not a prophet. So there are no religion Jews (as opposed to genetic Jews) who “have it right..”

That's what it says in the New Testament too.

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the
devils. -- KJV, Matthew 12:24

The Jews of Jesus' time, couldn't accept him, partly because Jesus cast out devils. And the Pharisees charged that Jesus must be in league with the "chief of devils" in order to demonstrate such power.

So, to the ancient Jew, Jesus was the devil, or possessed by the devil. Everything Jesus did, was contrary to their "understanding".

In other words, Jews don't believe that their GOD has any power over the DEVIL and his works !

But, the Christians believe that GOD is more powerful than the DEVIL, and can "undo" the devil's works at will.

a reply to: AMPTAH

I know.. it’s almost like they are not even the same religious root..

Like a group of Christians just created their own religion and used Judaism’s tenure to lend it credibility..

Also, just saying..

It is kinda ridiculous to use the post jesus NT to prove the validity of jesus concerning OT Judaism..

a reply to: Revolution9

Messianic Jews aren't Christians. Different holidays, they still hold on to the sabbath,...

Anyhoo if you read your source you'll find that the problem is not their faith in jesus, but the fact that they changed their religion, giving up their right to aliya. Descendants/relatives of messianic jews still got their right to return to israel.
It's a juristic problem, but why spoil a hate piece with truth, right?

a reply to: AMPTAH

That's bs. Because there is no satan, just people acting as satan/adversaries.

Can someone explain why christians side with Jews and not with muslims? seeing that Jews killed jesus and do not recognise jesus but the muslims think jesus is a prophet.
I just never understood it.

a reply to: testingtesting


Well hypothetically the Jews are not running around blowing up Christians .. at least for the Muslim half of the equation..

For the Jewish half , the Jews were the bad guys to Christians until the holocaust made it no longer cool to be antisemetic