New York Times : "The Pentagon's Mysterious UFO Program" (plus DeLonge's new website/videos)

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: Willtell

Exactly. The only credible piece of analysis was from the physics guy on YouTube who analyzed the acceleration anomaly. My husband is a former Marine fighter pilot and one of my neighbors recently retired from the Navy as a Top Gun instructor. Both of them looked at the original video and the video from the physics guy and agreed.

I find your post very confusing. The video you posted was not from a physics guy on youtube, it's from the former developer of the Tony Hawk video games (Mick West) who was saying the analysis by the retired physics professor is wrong.

So when you say your husband and neighbor agrees with the physics guy I don't know if you mean the former physics professor that the video says is wrong, or the former game developer who made the video who I wouldn't refer to as a "physics guy". I suppose game developers have to know something about physics, especially since there's a lot of physics in the Tony Hawk games, but does developing video games that use physics engines really make him a "physics guy"? In the case of the video you refer to, there's not so much physics involved in destroying the analysis by the retired physics guy (apparently Bruce Maccabee?) as attention to detail that the zoom level had changed on the display.

This also got me thinking about the pilot's testimony about incredible acceleration. Did he also miss the zoom change because it was made by someone else? Was he flying the tandem seat version of the F-18 and the other guy made the change in zoom and the pilot thought it was acceleration? If so there's massive confusion on the part of the pilot and his conclusion that it must be something not from this world seem ridiculous if his misreading the display the same way the physics guy did is his reason for thinking that.

Then again if this whole thing is a psychological propaganda operation by the intelligence community and or military industrial complex in order to evoke fears, maybe the pilot wasn't so confused at all and he's part of the conspiracy which according to one person is designed to get people supporting military spending, maybe by invoking alien fears.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Sorry for the confusion - my fault - I thought West was also a physicist - didn't realize he was a game developer. In any case, his comments on the zoom are reasonably correct. I say reasonably since we don't have all the data nor do we have a transcript of the pilot's debrief. As I said in my prior post:

They both said the only other maneuver that might produce the acceleration anomaly is if the "object" made a hard turn which would show up as the same acceleration phenomenon. But without the follow-up data and debrief of the pilots, that's all you can say about the incident.

As to your other questions, they're good ones. But looks like no one is offering that information. The F18s were first deployed in the early '70s. The Marines had a 2 seater and then transitioned to a single seat (this is my memory anyway). The F18 was reconfigured a number of times by McDonnell Douglas and Northrup so only the pilots involved in that incident or someone in the squadron could answer what type they were flying that day.

As to the pilots' confused and startled reaction, that's the Navy Marines are a higher class of aviator and wouldn't be caught dead yelling on the radio like that (only joking) Seriously though, the audio does not sound like highly trained aviators. As the story goes, I think 2 pilots were sent out to check on some aircraft or object. If that's true, then they have a protocol to describe their observations. Also, there are 3 training areas off the coast of California - I doubt those 2 pilots were the only ones out there. If the object was so unusual and possibly a threat, I think the first thing they would do is radio in the information. Bottom line is: no data, no pilot debrief, no evidence - no science. This was made for public consumption IMO.

One other thing my husband did mention - he said that if the acceleration was that high, the object would have breached the radar scan area and be off the screen. As far as I can see, the object remained on the screen - so the probability is that it was the zoom control or a hard turn that caused the anomaly. Or it's just a fake.

And you can add this to this storyline:

Colorado Mufon ufo Investigators offer their opinion on this story.

originally posted by: data5091
And you can add this to this storyline:

Colorado Mufon ufo Investigators offer their opinion on this story.

After reading articles and watching videos over the past year about how the people in control of MUFON are now going about their business and how their “field investigations” these days are a joke, I don’t really take anything MUFON says at their word anymore.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Follow up: It was a tandem seat Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet according to an earlier article.

a reply to: Phantom423
Roger that, thanks for the clarification.

It would be nice if an investigative reporter would show Mick West's video about the zoom change explaining the acceleration to the pilot who thought it was accelerating, and get his reaction to that. I'll be a little surprised if that happens though.

Re: Vallee and the recovered materials - I suspect they have material from Ubatuba. At least, that's my interpretation of what Vallee was talking about.

I really think he should get in touch with Zyvex (nanotech guys).

GUT - I'm really curious as to the motives for a Serpo 2.0. Couldn't be cover for the health effects study could it? This is one wild rabbit hole - Kit Green in Phenomena was talking about developing drugs that could suppress or enhance 'experiences'. Like - there is money going into this, biotech money. Also ties into Rendlesham of all things.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

While digging up more information on Commander Fravor, I found this thread on fightersweep.com. Read the comments below the article as well. Interesting indeed. Now wondering if we're all wrong!

fightersweep.com...

Excerpt:

The IR camera did not detect roiling hot gasses blasting from below the AAV, as they would with a Harrier or a helicopter. It was simply hanging in midair. He switched to the TV mode and was able to again lock the FLIR onto the object while still trying, with no luck, to get a STT track on the radar. As he watched it, the AAV moved out of his screen to the left so suddenly it almost seemed to disappear. On the tape, when it is slowed down, the object accelerates out of the field of view with shocking speed. The WSO was not able to reacquire the AAV either in RWS or with the FLIR. Somehow the tape made its way to YouTube. A few years after the incident, when first telling me the story, Dave pointed me to the link. It was unremarkable without the background information. But folded into context it was amazing, especially the slow-mo of the dot accelerating out of screen.

For years I told the story to friends and showed them the video as punctuation. However last month when I called Dave to refresh my memory before sitting down to write this bizarre encounter, he informed me that the video had been removed from YouTube. He told me that a government agency with a three letter identifier had recently conducted an investigation into the AAVs and had exhaustively interviewed all parties involved. All of the seven flight crew, including 6 aircrew from VFA-41 and Cheeks from VMFA-232. The Fire Control Officer and Senior Chief from Princeton, and the radar operator on the E-2. They even queried the crew of the USS Louisville, a Los Angeles-class Fast-Attack submarine that was in the area as part of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group who reported there were no unidentified sonar contacts or strange underwater noises on that day.

I’m not sure what to make of these events. I’ve loved the story since first listening because it is so crazy. I had never given aliens or UFOs much thought. It was a waste of my CPU power to mull a question like that. If they wanted to make contact, they would. If they wanted to observe from a distance, then they would be impossible to discern given the assumed high technology required to visit.

Scroll to the end of this video if you don't want to watch the whole thing - it's Commander Fravor's last carrier call - landing at night. He was squadron commander - speaking at the beginning of the video - very credible guy - BUT does the "three letter agency" mentioned in the above post from fightersweep have something to do with the current revelations?

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: Arbitrageur

While digging up more information on Commander Fravor, I found this thread on fightersweep.com. Read the comments below as well. Interesting indeed. Now wondering if we're all wrong!

fightersweep.com...

Excerpt:

The IR camera did not detect roiling hot gasses blasting from below the AAV, as they would with a Harrier or a helicopter. It was simply hanging in midair. He switched to the TV mode and was able to again lock the FLIR onto the object while still trying, with no luck, to get a STT track on the radar. As he watched it, the AAV moved out of his screen to the left so suddenly it almost seemed to disappear. On the tape, when it is slowed down, the object accelerates out of the field of view with shocking speed. The WSO was not able to reacquire the AAV either in RWS or with the FLIR. Somehow the tape made its way to YouTube. A few years after the incident, when first telling me the story, Dave pointed me to the link. It was unremarkable without the background information. But folded into context it was amazing, especially the slow-mo of the dot accelerating out of screen.

For years I told the story to friends and showed them the video as punctuation. However last month when I called Dave to refresh my memory before sitting down to write this bizarre encounter, he informed me that the video had been removed from YouTube. He told me that a government agency with a three letter identifier had recently conducted an investigation into the AAVs and had exhaustively interviewed all parties involved. All of the seven flight crew, including 6 aircrew from VFA-41 and Cheeks from VMFA-232. The Fire Control Officer and Senior Chief from Princeton, and the radar operator on the E-2. They even queried the crew of the USS Louisville, a Los Angeles-class Fast-Attack submarine that was in the area as part of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group who reported there were no unidentified sonar contacts or strange underwater noises on that day.

I’m not sure what to make of these events. I’ve loved the story since first listening because it is so crazy. I had never given aliens or UFOs much thought. It was a waste of my CPU power to mull a question like that. If they wanted to make contact, they would. If they wanted to observe from a distance, then they would be impossible to discern given the assumed high technology required to visit.

Scroll to the end of this video if you don't want to watch the whole thing - it's Commander Fravor's last carrier call - landing at night. He was squadron commander - speaking at the beginning of the video - very credible guy - BUT does the "three letter agency" mentioned in the above post from fightersweep have something to do with the current revelations?

imho this 2004 event is the most legit seeming of what we've gotten. Note the electronic warfare bit - that is very interesting.

GIMBAL we know nothing about, and it could easily just be glare or something. 2004 is radar visual from multiple platforms.

The video analysis done by the British video game developer is a very reasonable explanation of the manoeuvre taken by the object. There does not seem to be any high-speed manoeuvre, it maintains the speed it was always travelling at. The only peculiar motion the object gives is a rotation (not shown in the video analysis).

this video includes the object's rotation without seemingly to change vector.

I feel, the most reasonable conclusions we can draw is that two F/A 18 Hornets tracked and followed an object. Apart from the rotation, the video does not show the object to display any anomalous flight behaviour that would place it beyond the current technological capability of our own aircraft. To be honest, my initial excitement now feels somewhat deflated, and I feel a tad disappointed. Those of us who would welcome full genuine disclosure are pretty much at a disadvantage, as various groups, organisations, and people are aligned against us, and they actively seek no disclosure at all, simply because of their own mindset and thinking.

In summary, reports Knapp, “Reid said the study produced voluminous reports, but was cancelled because of fears within the intelligence community, fear not only that the story would leak out, but fear based on religious beliefs of those who felt UFOs might be Satanic.”

devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com...

It makes my blood boil!!

a reply to: Arbitrageur

An in depth analysis by Mike West from MetaBunk.org. Will get some opinions on his conclusions.

www.metabunk.org...

originally posted by: elysiumfire

In summary, reports Knapp, “Reid said the study produced voluminous reports, but was cancelled because of fears within the intelligence community, fear not only that the story would leak out, but fear based on religious beliefs of those who felt UFOs might be Satanic.”

devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com...

It makes my blood boil!!

This is really the last thing I expected to pop out of nowhere. The Collins Elite stuff? Like holy cow flat WHAT? Could this faction jump in too?

a reply to: elysiumfire

I think you're getting the two seperate UFO events/videos confused.

This analysis pertains to the "Nimitz", "Tic-Tac", "FLIR1" video.


and this one is for the "Dude its rotating", "GIMBAL" video.


Seems that so far this British game programmer, Mick West, has out-investigated EVERY SINGLE WELL KNOWN RESEARCHER in UFOlogy.

None of the usual suspects have even MENTIONED this excellent and damning analysis from West. It looks as though the analysis that appears to solve what is potentially the most important UFO case in our lifetime is being ACTIVELY IGNORED by the pro's we've put our trust in.

I wonder, will any of the big names out there in UFOlogy step up to the plate and ADDRESS THESE GLARING ISSUES?

originally posted by: Iridomyrmex
a reply to: elysiumfire

I think you're getting the two seperate UFO events/videos confused.

This analysis pertains to the "Nimitz", "Tic-Tac", "FLIR1" video.

and this one is for the "Dude its rotating", "GIMBAL" video.

Seems that so far this British game programmer, Mick West, has out-investigated EVERY SINGLE WELL KNOWN RESEARCHER in UFOlogy.

None of the usual suspects have even MENTIONED this excellent and damning analysis from West. It looks as though the analysis that appears to solve what is potentially the most important UFO case in our lifetime is being ACTIVELY IGNORED by the pro's we've put our trust in.

I wonder, will any of the big names out there in UFOlogy step up to the plate and ADDRESS THESE GLARING ISSUES?

Raytheon is using this for PR.
www.raytheon.com...

This could be entertaining.

This is oddly funny to me. On one hand you have a highly qualified witness (the F/A-18 Pilot) state what he saw, and on the other hand you have people saying that no he didn't. Very amusing.

There are a couple of things here that need to be looked at:
This video has provided us all with the fact that the US Government had been using tax payer funds to investigate these UFO/UAP, and had produced 12 volumes of data. This is the take a way we should be looking at. How can we (you know, "The People") see what's in these reports?

Reid said that the program ended due to people essentially being uncomfortable with the findings. I look at this thread and, yes, I can see that going on back and forth. Right now it doesn't matter if the video is a misidentified object or not (I would like to think that a Professional fighter Pilot would know what they are looking at or not). What matters is what did the Governmental investigation find.

originally posted by: Guyfriday
What matters is what did the Governmental investigation find.

This IS what the government investigation found! The "FLIR1" video and the "GIMBAL" video. Both which can be explained as simple ATFLIR camera artifacts, as the investagors at Metabunk have shown.

The pilot involved in the "FLIR1" video is the only testimony we have, and his interview on CNN gave conflicting information in regards to what the "FLIR1" video shows. So far, his story does not check out.

Now, why hasn't the government, or any professional UFO investigator for that matter (let alone TTS/AAS) acknowledged the enormous inconsistencies in their video evidence and the pilot's testimony? (The debunking vids are two posts above this, as well as many other places in threads on this topic).

Now THAT is the real Mystery here.

a reply to: Iridomyrmex


Really? So the 12 "Binders" of collected data and 5 years just got us a video? Really?

Clearly (if you had watched the G. Knapp interviews) you are not seeing the big picture here. This video is only a very small piece of what was discovered and collected.

Neither of the videos that you posted above, exclude anything, other than saying that the G-Force is consistent and that lens flare could be to blame. We'll just ignore the pilot and what he said I guess.

The point here again, is that there was a Congressional Investigation into these events, and that's what we should be focusing on. As for the video, I think it's great, to say the least, that a video has come down to us the has a good custody chain that goes all the way to the military Pilot that experienced the event. This means that a credible first hand report made by a highly qualified person, can be checked out. This is rare, and to top it off a retired Congressman openly stated that there was a program to investigate these events in the US Government.

a reply to: Iridomyrmex

what's your real motive for disproving this?

originally posted by: Iridomyrmex

originally posted by: Guyfriday
What matters is what did the Governmental investigation find.

This IS what the government investigation found!

Lie

The pilot involved in the "FLIR1" video is the only testimony we have, and his interview on CNN gave conflicting information in regards to what the "FLIR1" video shows. So far, his story does not check out.

His story checks out fine, it's people not knowing that the tic tac vid is a sliver of the actual vid, that much is obvious. The gambal vid is just a related air force UFO incident, relevent. His story checks out fine, another lie to suit your narrative.

Now THAT is the real Mystery here.

You saying things like they are true doesn't make them true. The mystery is why you made an account to attack a vid.
You work with metabunk OR are an insider acting as a regular who knows something you are not saying

a reply to: makalit


I'm beginning to think that the answer here is clear, but this is neither the time nor thread for this kind of questions.

What I would like to have resolved is why would the US Military after years of not wanting to talk about this, allow for this type of video to be made public? There's a question to ask yourselves.

Hopefully there will be more of this type of information exploding on the media, so that what's known doesn't have to sit in the shadows anymore. Possibly the reason nobody wants to talk about it, is that by not fully knowing what these things are, they're afraid that of what they could be, rather then openly studying them to find out what they are/not.