Someone want to explain to me how these folks died?

originally posted by: gdkknxnqkc
Suspicious and sad... innocent people are losing their lives, and for what? Hiding the truth from us.

thousands of people attended that music festival, and 2 weeks later a couple that was there, die in an auto accident....what truth, by who, is being hidden?

a reply to: Redback

Sorry but an hour to put a car fire out is unbelievable to me.

So how many car fires you been to ...?

Explained how it can take long time to extinguish fire if extensive overhaul required to prevent re ignitions

Fuel fed fire are also time consuming - may need to foam the area to blanket the burning fuel

Again how many car fires you put out ??

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

if the car was engulfed in flames, no one would have been able to get to them

Had a fire like that in neighboring town - called us to back them up

Initial call was for car fire. Engine crew knocked down fire - then realized it was occupied. Driver/victim was literally
fused to seat springs.

Car had struck tree head on - found battery 75 ft down road from impact

a reply to: MotherMayEye

when i was in my late 20's to mid 30's i was a volunteer firefighter, we filed reports as the time the call was reported, not the time the report was generated.of course that was 25 years ago but i wouldn't think it would have chaged. if it's the time the report was generated that would be inaccurate information. and if you look at the report and the way it is worded. like Date Reported 10/16/2017, Time reported:11:18 pm and Current Situation:UPDATE 10/16/17 @ 11:57 p.m

so just to satisfy this i called the Riverside County Fire Departments Public Info office, asked if the reports are filed in real time, and if the time reported was when the call was taken.

answer was, reports are filed in as close to real time as possible, ie when radio calls come back to station.
Date &Time reported is when call was recived, current situation is as soon as call to station comes in.

so yes the call came in at 11:18.

i don't know if it's against t&c so if you want pm me and i'll give you the phone number.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
answer was, reports are filed in as close to real time as possible, ie when radio calls come back to station.
Date &Time reported is when call was revived, current situation is as soon as call to station comes in.

so yes the call came in at 11:18.

i don't know if it's against t&c so if you want pm me and i'll give you the phone number.

Uh...so you didn't just ask them what time the FD was dispatched by 911 or what time 911 was called????

You are still just interpreting and you had them on the phone to get direct answers??

a reply to: MotherMayEye

you can't be dispatched until after the report of a fire comes in. no matter if it's 911 or joe blow calling.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: MotherMayEye

you can't be dispatched until after the report of a fire comes in. no matter if it's 911 or joe blow calling.

Well, d'uh.

And you can't initially report there is 'one CONFIRMED fatality' if there is no FD ALREADY on the scene to assess a victim and radio that info in.

The update is where the fatality number was increased to 2.

When the incident report was originally generated, the FD reported only one "CONFIRMED" fatality.





ETA: I mean OBVIOUSLY the 'Current Situation' info (BEFORE ANY UPDATES), shows that the FD and police were already on the scene when the incident report was originated.

You are misinterpreting when you could have just asked them when you had them on the phone.

It took about an hour to put out the fire. I am not sure I find that odd, though...because I just don't know that much about firefighting.

***

ETA: And, BTW, in a car accident, like this one, paramedics would definitely be dispatched upon receiving the 911 call, and therefore, so would the FD.

If a paramedic is requested, a fire truck will automatically be dispatched as well, since the Fire Department is responsible for extrication of an injured person, whether from a car or a residence. The paramedic's responsibility is to administer medical attention.

Riverside County '911'

...moving on.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

how the the hell do you who reported their was a death before hand, you have no idea when it was reported, it could have been a call from the tropper, it could have been the passing motorist as in your link you keep wanting to point to which is a media report that according to most on this site don't trust. the update was after the fire was put out, and the situation could be accessed .

your just arguing now for the sake of it. i'm done and proven, my point if your not willing to accept it that's fine, but don't expect me to not keep on countering ignorance and look for logical explanations first before jumping to wild theories.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: MotherMayEye

how the the hell do you who reported their was a death before hand, you have no idea when it was reported, it could have been a call from the tropper, it could have been the passing motorist as in your link you keep wanting to point to which is a media report that according to most on this site don't trust. the update was after the fire was put out, and the situation could be acessed.

your just arguing now for the sake of it. i'm done and proven, my point if your not willing to accept ir that's fine, but don't expect me to not keep on countering ignorance and look for logical explanations first before jumping to wild theories.

You proved you misinterpreted something and that you could have confirmed information on the phone but decided to keep guessing instead.

And it's ok, it is not the end of the world. You probably do that a lot.

You think it took the FD 28 minutes to even get a call to respond. I believe the info given by the California Highway Police is the correct info and the FD, police, & paramedics were all there shortly before 11 p.m.

You believe it took a long time for the FD to get there because of heavy traffic at 11 p.m. I believe it probably took about 10 minutes for the FD to get to the scene after the crash.

You believe it took about a half hour, or so, to put out the fire. I believe it took about an hour "to be contained."

Your opinions are not significant or superior...nor do they lay to rest any skepticism.

I agree, it's become pointless to argue about your misinterpretation.

ETA: BTW, a passerby cannot 'CONFIRM" a fatality for the FD...even if they think a person is dead. And the initial incident report said there was "one CONFIRMED fatality."

a reply to: bknapple32

It has become an integral part of false flag operations to expect that certain "insignificant" bystanders commit suicide or become victims of an freak "accident". As I mentioned earlier in THIS ATS post.

Things are geting really grimm in the world..

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Agreed. I appreciate you making the effort to call and untangle some of this. It definitely goes above and beyond arguing just for the sake of arguing. And since you were part of a VFD, can you guesstimate how many car fires raged for upwards of an hour during your time at the VFD? While it may have nothing to do with the cause, I’m curious because it seems highly unusual.

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Agreed. I appreciate you making the effort to call and untangle some of this. It definitely goes above and beyond arguing just for the sake of arguing. And since you were part of a VFD, can you guesstimate how many car fires raged for upwards of an hour during your time at the VFD? While it may have nothing to do with the cause, I’m curious because it seems highly unusual.

Unfortunately, nothing was untangled even though he claims to have called them.

He didn't ask them what time the 911 call came in, what time the FD dispatched, or what time they arrived on the scene. He threw out some vague description of what 'Time Reported' meant..and it didn't mean the precise time of the 911 call...and then guessed his interpretation is maybe correct, still.

Were the Carvers brand new to this neighborhood?
Had they not driven this route but a few times?
Were they unfamiliar with the twists and turns (if there were any)?
At 52 and 54 years of age, did they just decide spur of the moment to hotrod into the entrance at high speed?

originally posted by: queenofswords
Were the Carvers brand new to this neighborhood?
Had they not driven this route but a few times?
Were they unfamiliar with the twists and turns (if there were any)?
At 52 and 54 years of age, did they just decide spur of the moment to hotrod into the entrance at high speed?

There is a sizable curve in the section of road where the accident occurred.

It is my understanding that we are not allowed to post any info about victims' lives (but it's ok to talk about Jesus Campos' and Kymberly Suchomel's lives.). The Carvers are off-limits though. This thread is dysfunctional for that reason, IMO. But I don't make the rules.

You can always U2U me, QoS. I do have other public information about them, but I won't share it here.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Agreed. I appreciate you making the effort to call and untangle some of this. It definitely goes above and beyond arguing just for the sake of arguing. And since you were part of a VFD, can you guesstimate how many car fires raged for upwards of an hour during your time at the VFD? While it may have nothing to do with the cause, I’m curious because it seems highly unusual.

Time on scene depends on many factors

When was call reported

Is fire station manned 24 or do FF need to travel to station

How long does it take for apparatus to get to scene - does the apparatus need to locate the fire

We have problems on interstate highway - state police often send us in wrong direction because callers misreport
location and direction

On Interstate calls have one apparatus hold on east bound ramp, another on west bound while our chiefs search for
actual location

How long take to extinguish fire

How long it takes to overhaul the scene

How long it takes to pack up hose and tools

We record TWO TIMES on our run sheets - time of call (when reported) and time secured (time back in fire station)

Another thing to consider if nit picking over time - are the clocks in synch - different clocks often off by several minutes

originally posted by: firerescue

Another thing to consider if nit picking over time - are the clocks in synch - different clocks often off by several minutes

A few minutes, sure. I'll buy that. Several? No way.

Hounddoghowlie said he called the Riverside FD....but he didn't ask for any specific information regarding the time of the 911 call, dispatch, arrival on the scene, generation of the incident report. Nada.

And since you don't work there, you don't know that info either. You can speculate, all you want. But, so far, the official statements and reports say the FD and police were on the scene before 11 p.m., and the fire took about an hour to 'contain.'

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Touché.

A cursory read of the two of y’all (that’s a word in KY, right?) going back and forth looked more like an argument than a dissection of the known facts allowed in this thread (apparently, you have additional info that must relate to the personal lives that can’t be shared here). After rereading, yeah, he fumbled through that explanation and never got back to the thread to answer for himself, but I did want to thank him for his alleged call into the public information office. Moreover, I really just wanted a guesstimate of hour-long car fires in his time at the VFD.

You mentioned you don’t know much about car fires, he suggested he did, and I do. While not impossible, it’s highly unusual for a car being attended to burning for an hour. It doesn’t appear the car struck any building structures or rested against any non-desert flora, so containment of the fire would be limited to hosing it down. You can ‘put out’ the fire of a totally engulfed car in under 10 minutes and have it completely extinguished, shortly thereafter. So, I’m only concerned with the time, as it relates to the actual “time on the scene” — it seems you’ve pinned it down as accurately as possible given the information in the thread — because the time the fire burned unattended is fairly inconsequential.

Circumspect would be the adjective I would relate to the claim a car burned for upwards of an hour, in any circumstance. If the car was totally engulfed in flames for upwards of an hour while being attended to, I would chalk it up to a mistake in time-keeping...or a full-fledged conspiracy to eliminate the couple. Again, no structures were reported as being burnt and the birds-eye view of the area shows only desert flora...it’s safe to say the fire was limited to the car and that just doesn’t add up. Hopefully, someone can untangle (keeping it consistent) the time-keeping and lay out the actual duration of time in which the car was attended to by firefighters. The notion a car was totally engulfed in flames for an hour really is the issue I would like resolved. It’s not impossible, but it is beyond an everyday occurrence with little-to-no mitigating (exacerbating) circumstances. I will mention, again, that VW Bugs that caught fire and said fire started and/or spread to the engine block containing magnesium would, on occasion, be left to burn itself out — if there weren’t other structures that said fire could compromise — while being attended to and could burn for an hour. Single car fires with occupants being totally engulfed for an hour is damn near unheard of. The only other time I can recall such a duration was when a semi collided head-on with a car on a bridge... the duration of that fire was more a function of being isolated to a bridge and having very little resources to fight a fire on a two lane bridge 35 ft above a river.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Depends on fuel load - modern cars are mostly if not entirely plastics

Was gas tank full or not

Other combustibles - aka tires in trunk, cans of oil, brake fluid and other flammables in vehicle This along with
plain old trash - many cars I've seen resemble rolling garbage piles with everything from fast food containers to
newspapers and other trash

Magnesium components - VW (VW, Porsche, Audi) products are notorious for having large amount of magnesium
components

Rule of thumb, newer the vehicle and more expensive greater likely will have magnesium parts

Mercedes Benz M class

www.meridian-mag.com...

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Whether I am qualified to talk about how long a car fire could/should burn with firefighters on the scene, 'an hour' sounds like a long time, to me.

That said...I refuse to take anyone at their word when they claim to be an expert. If they can educate me as to how I can determine, for myself, how probable or improbable it is...I can be persuaded either way though!

How is a vehicle fire, like this, contained? Does the FD need a nearby fire hydrant? Was there one nearby?

If you can point me to sound answers as to whether it was reasonable, or not, that it took about an hour to contain this vehicle fire, I would appreciate it.

ETA: "Fully engulfed for an hour"...that's impossible to swallow.

But I don't see that's been claimed anywhere, so no reason to spend time on that, IMO.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Well, at least we can agree that ‘an hour’ is a long time.

Yeah, semantics, you got me there. Totally engulfed is redundant. Engulfed works well enough. I’m no expert on back-and-forth on an Internet forum — bridge troll is better left to those well-versed in it.

Whether anyone claimed to be an expert on fires, I can’t say. My experience in firefighter is limited to my grade/middle school best friend being a junior firefighter at the County VFD and spending several summers in the ‘90s with him and doing ride alongs. Toss in a little commonsense with some “on the scene” experience and you’re able to discern a little (maybe a lot — it’s relative) more than the lay person. At any rate, two occupants in a burning car tends to speed things up on the ‘containment’ end — whether it was engulfed or merely sparklingly — and understanding the function of the fire’s duration is my goal in participating in this thread. Has been since my first post. That’s it.

That’s sound reasoning, refusing to take anyone’s word who claims to be an expert on an Internet forum. Make it two things we can agree on.

To the rest of those reading:

According to the National Fire Protection Association, collisions and rollovers accounted for 3% of total vehicle fires (the vintage of the reported data appears to be up to 2010), or roughly 1 out of every 30 or so vehicle fires. So, a fire resulting from a collision (allegedly) burning for an hour with two occupants is starting to slide into “outlier” terroritory, which in-of-itself warrants a closer examination...irrespective of the couple’s attendance to the LV concert. I don’t have it in me (dinnertime on the East Coast) to do a deep dive into reported data on vehicle fire durations, but here is the NFPA vehicle fire report: N FPA Data on Vehicle Fires