Vegas: Multiple Survivors/Eyewitness Tell of Multiple Shooters at Multiple Casinos

a reply to: KansasGirl

Curious AND suspicious! Suspicion should be the first natural response to being denied information -- especially visual and especially when so many are demanding such in order to believe the claims.

And as I've pointed out previously, it is the DUTY of the authorities to provide PROOF of any and all claims they make, and especially criminal allegations. It is not and never has been our duty to believe them, nor our duty to prove them wrong and/or lying liars. Exactly the opposite. Our justice system requires they prove their claims.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: Boadicea

They also cut the moment from the police body cam footage that showed a bullet coming through the mesh of a fence from a different direction from that of the Mandalay Bay Hotel. At 0:05 of the following video. Has this been brought to the attention of Special Agent Clouseau, yet?

They should call their video section TimesVideosForDummies.

I can't see a mesh fence in that footage at all, never mind how you can tell the bullet came from the wrong direction. All you see is an impact blow on some fabric.

a reply to: ipsedixit

That NYTimes compilation is perfect.

It makes everybody automatically believe all the shots came from 32-135.

It's been the official story that started a few minutes after the shootings.

a reply to: xuenchen

its almost as if youre saying hundreds of people had prior knowledge

originally posted by: audubon

I can't see a mesh fence in that footage at all, never mind how you can tell the bullet came from the wrong direction. All you see is an impact blow on some fabric.

The mesh or fabric if you wish, that is part of a metal framed fence.

You hear the shot and see the impact. Looking over the firebrick wall on the other side, you see the Mandalay Bay in the distance, in the other direction.

OK?

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: xuenchen

its almost as if youre saying hundreds of people had prior knowledge

How "almost" is it ?

a reply to: ipsedixit

I can't help but wonder how many people turned over such video/pictures to the proper authorities trusting that they were doing their civic and moral duty, with full faith and confidence in the authorities, only to find out it's being buried and denied by those same authorities.

On the other hand, it is possible that those folks were told that it would be buried -- for now -- for the sake of an ongoing investigation and/or undercover operation.

We just don't know.

a reply to: ipsedixit

This is what most people would understand from the term "mesh fence", and it's what I understood by it, too.



I'm not sure what you'd call the thing in the video - a temporary crowd barrier? At any rate, not a mesh fence.

Now we've cleared that up, I still don't think you can say the bullet came from the wrong direction. You see an impact, that much is clear, but you can't tell anything about the direction it came from. The Mandalay Bay is visible in the background, later in the same bit of video, so there's a clear line of sight between the two.

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: xuenchen

its almost as if youre saying hundreds of people had prior knowledge

My thoughts on that... I am still under the impression that "Paddock" was acting in an undercover federal capacity of some kind or another. If those cameras were there to record/transmit his undercover meeting to federal agents and it went sideways, then they would have been the first to know what was about to happen -- so kinda sorta prior knowledge.

If the feds had notified Mandalay security prior to the meeting that something was going down, then that would be even more that had "prior knowledge" of some kind.

So maybe not hundreds... but we have no idea how many knew what beforehand.

a reply to: Boadicea

Call the fog of war, adrenaline in systems, and tunnel vision.

Here is a video recently uploaded. It was a guy who was staying at the MGM and his room looked across to Hooters and he started filming. By the middle of his recording there are 17 ambulances at Hooters, and he said that before he started filming, 6 had already pulled away. He says they are pulling bodies out of Hooters, and says he doesn't know if they are injured or dead. Now, I haven't watched the entire thing, but what I have seen isn't zoomed in enough to clearly see.

It is curious though, that many ambulances.

I don't think it was necessarily a rally or staging point either because it's not too close to the concert. Here is the link to the YouTube video:


m.youtube.com...

ETA: would they send 17 ambulances to Hooters for misidentified/unreliable/misunderstood reports of gunfire there? And hop out with their stretchers?





ETA again: after watching more of this video, it might actually be staging. I say this because the guy filming mentions that they are putting mats down, and I think different colored mats are sometimes used in large triage procedures.....so, I may have jumped the gun by first thinking it wasn't a staging deal. Sorry, all! Oops. It is still interesting though, especially because you can hear the local news reporting on the event in the background.

originally posted by: staticfl
a reply to: Boadicea

Call the fog of war, adrenaline in systems, and tunnel vision.

For some, definitely.

For many, maybe.

For others, no way.

a reply to: KansasGirl

Thank you for posting the video link!

Now I have two videos to watch when I'm able again...

This is a very interesting account of the shooting. Apparently someone set fire crackers off before the shooting. To confuse the crowd? The person who told this story on Facebook is a 28 year old woman, who is now dead of "natural causes". (She was taking medication for a tumor on her pituitary gland.)

She says that there were shooters on the ground, among the crowd.

a reply to: KansasGirl

I think the reports of multiple shooters can be attributed to the witnesses being under high stress. I don't think there is any substance to them.

I think the reports of hearing multiple weapons being fired can be attributed to echos, and people not knowing what it sounds like to be shot at.

The only odd thing that stands out to me is the amount of weapons in the murderers room.

As far as the weapons, I can see him bringing more than one to the room (maybe 5 or 6) to commit the atrocity, but 20-30 is weird to me. Then again, sometimes crazy people do crazy things.

I really want to know more about what was found in his vehicle.

a reply to: ipsedixit

Thank you for posting the video link!

For anyone who cannot watch videos, Heavy posted screenshots of her Facebook post describing her experiences and observations here, at the end of the article. So keep scrolling down and you'll find 'em!

Her name is Kymberley Suchomel.

It has also been reported that she was trying to organize survivors who had recounted multiple gunman. Maybe those other survivors will carry on what she started.... and eventually provide proof of their claims to the public.

a reply to: Boadicea

that doesnt explain the quarter billion dollars of insider trading transactions less than a month before

originally posted by: audubon
a reply to: ipsedixit

This is what most people would understand from the term "mesh fence", and it's what I understood by it, too.

I'm not sure what you'd call the thing in the video - a temporary crowd barrier? At any rate, not a mesh fence.

Now we've cleared that up, I still don't think you can say the bullet came from the wrong direction. You see an impact, that much is clear, but you can't tell anything about the direction it came from. The Mandalay Bay is visible in the background, later in the same bit of video, so there's a clear line of sight between the two.

Mesh fence? NEVER heard of it being described as a mesh fence. I have only heard it be called a chain linked fence.

originally posted by: KansasGirl

ETA: would they send 17 ambulances to Hooters for misidentified/unreliable/misunderstood reports of gunfire there? And hop out with their stretchers?

If there were reports of gunfire anywhere near Hooters paramedics would NOT stage their vehicles there.

They would choose a staging point away from the incident location and wait for the all clear from law enforcement to go in.

I think Hooters is approximately 3/4 of a mile from the incident so it could definitely work as a staging area for rescue personnel.

originally posted by: audubon

This is what most people would understand from the term "mesh fence", and it's what I understood by it, too.

Maybe it's a terminology issue. Your photo is of something I would call a "chain link fence".

Now we've cleared that up, I still don't think you can say the bullet came from the wrong direction. You see an impact, that much is clear, but you can't tell anything about the direction it came from. The Mandalay Bay is visible in the background, later in the same bit of video, so there's a clear line of sight between the two.

Surely the "fabric" can be seen to lurch to the right, indicating a shot from the left, away from the Mandalay Bay Hotel? At 0:05 of the video.