President Trump is Cancelling the Illegal ObamaCare CSR Insurance Company Payments

a reply to: DBCowboy

I'll put this in terms a Republican or Trump Supporter can understand.

Health Insurance companies are the Hillary Clinton of Health Care Plans.

Do you understand?

There is no trust. Only broken trust. There is a history of abuse. People die on health insurance watch. I will NEVER support Health Insurance companies. They are greed incarnate. And they are corrupt as f*ck. And unlike Hillary Clinton we got tons and tons of proof and stories from countless families all across the country.

Does that help you understand?

Health Insurance Industry = Hillary Clinton

I like reading about the actions taken to chip away at the unaffordable doesn't-care dictate, I just wish that people wouldn't try to insert equally untenable so-called 'single payer' into the conversation.

News flash: the best single payer is the customer. Government screws it all up.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
I like reading about the actions taken to chip away at the unaffordable doesn't-care dictate, I just wish that people wouldn't try to insert equally untenable so-called 'single payer' into the conversation.

News flash: the best single payer is the customer. Government screws it all up.

Of course it can be done and the support for it is building...

If we want to talk numbers... Check out the source. These are costs per person for healthcare. Average household of 4 making less than $200,000 could save thousands in annual premiums -- and they get all the healthcare they need.

   — $41.67/month = the health care payroll cost for every $10,000/yr of earned income
          Example: $208/month for $50,000/yr of earned income.

source: www.medicareforall.org...

It's a good deal. And for that, no premiums, no co-pays, no deductibles.

And that's just Bernie's plan.

Independence for all people from the shackles of Insurance Companies.
Freedom to get the Health Care you need when you need it.
No worries of going bankrupt from medical bills.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Dudemo5

Do you not realize that the ENTIRE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY is predicated upon getting you to pay for other people's medical care?

I know.

#### socialized health care.

So you acknowledge that you're already paying. Then you can't very well argue that we just want you to pay for our healthcare, when you're already paying for it.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: DBCowboy

I'll put this in terms a Republican or Trump Supporter can understand.

For-Profit Health Insurance companies are the Hillary Clinton of Health Care Plans.

Do you understand?

There is no trust. Only broken trust. There is a history of abuse. People die on health insurance watch. I will NEVER support Health Insurance companies. They are greed incarnate. And they are corrupt as f*ck. And unlike Hillary Clinton we got tons and tons of proof and stories from countless families all across the country.

Does that help you understand?

Health Insurance Industry = Hillary Clinton

This would make an awesome ad campaign for Single Payer.

a reply to: Noncents

Wonderful.

So lets ignore the reality of the situation, that being that:

a) ACA was the best thing that was possible at the time it was passed, for reasons I have already examined in previous postings

b) Not doing anything would have meant that more people would have DIED as a result of avoiding treatment on financial grounds, than have done since the ACA was passed (which, in an awful lot of ways, is the only important factor here)

c) No more proper system (like paying for all medical care by way of taxation, state run rather than private hospitals being the norm, for example) currently exists, or would have passed any congress that has been assembled in the history of the United States of America

Lets ignore these fundamental realities, because we have a problem with half measures? Really?

I am a socialist, a dyed in the wool enemy of the corporate world and its strangle hold on government and the people alike. But if you were to say to me "Here TrueBrit, we have options. We can wait around with our collective thumbs inside our ringpieces, for some socially responsible congress to create a system whereby the insurers are banished from the vast majority of medical cover provision entirely, or we can make a change now, which while imperfect in a lot of ways, will at least mean that more people will live or have reduced physical suffering, who would otherwise have died or suffered greatly. Which do you suggest we do?", then you know what I would say?

DO WHATEVER YOU CAN DO!

If you just cannot get something passed through congress which makes health insurance as an industry about one tenth its current size, forces the majority of healthcare provision into state hands entirely, makes at least eighty percent of surgeons, consultants, doctors, nurses, lab techs and all that, state employees with no private ties at all, and reduces private medicine to the Hollywood face stretching, belly tucking work, while leaving life saving to dedicated providers of care, absent obscene financial motivation on the part of anyone working in, for, or to administrate on behalf of hospitals, then of COURSE you should do whatever you CAN do instead.

Obama never could have passed a better measure than he did, because the option was not on the table, would never have passed the conservatives on the Democrat side, leave alone the GOP lunatics on the other.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Have you got some data that shows more people would have died without the ACA?
I found some studies that correlate insurance in terms of the binary have it/don't have it measure, but nothing that factors in the quality of care.

a reply to: UKTruth

People die through a lack of access to healthcare, so the question is moot.

If more people are covered, and therefore have access to the care their condition requires, then fewer of them die. This is especially true of those suffering from conditions where rapid diagnosis and early treatment, can be the difference between successfully saving the patients life, and them dying a slow, horrible, painful, and completely avoidable death.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Trump appears to be continuing a dangerous precedent that started in earnest under Obama. While I do support him trying to get rid of the failed ACA; I object to the use of EOs to legislate from the Executive Branch of Government.

I had a problem with the improper use of EO's under Obama and I still don't like to see the President taking unilateral action and bypassing Congress.

Does that make sense??? Obama came up with all these destructive EOs while Congress did nothing to object and now Trumps has to resort to EOs to undo Obama's EOs and Trump is the bad guy???

You're saying we should just leave Obama's EOs in place???

a reply to: Iscool

Um... The ACA was not established by an executive order.

It was passed through congress, in the normal fashion.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
I like reading about the actions taken to chip away at the unaffordable doesn't-care dictate, I just wish that people wouldn't try to insert equally untenable so-called 'single payer' into the conversation.

News flash: the best single payer is the customer. Government screws it all up.

The customer has zero leverage for lower prices, how can they be the best?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Iscool

Um... The ACA was not established by an executive order.

It was passed through congress, in the normal fashion.

But the Cost-Sharing-Reduction subsidy payments to insurance companies were not appropriated by Congress. Obama single handedly took $7 Billion every year from the U.S. Treasury, without authorization.

It would be the same thing if Trump took $7 Billion to build The Wall right now. That would be illegal and unconstitutional.

Proof: www.washingtonexaminer.com...

a reply to: carewemust

Seems as if your link is broken.

a reply to: TrueBrit

URL fixed. Thank-you sir.

a reply to: TrueBrit

NO. Taxation is just another income redistribution scheme dreamed up by Marxist revolutionaries. It's socialism and not better healthcare. Socialism only works till you run out of other people's money. I think we've about run out of the middle class money and the rich won't suffer.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Wayfarer
I'm suggesting that those folks (who erroneously believe their success is entirely self made) pay back into the system that made them successful, and that the most efficacious way to pay back into that system is to perpetuate the lives of those that form the backbone of that system.

JESUS CHRIST, when will it be enough?!?!?!
taxfoundation.org...
The top 10% accounted for 47% of the nation's earnings in 2016 and paid 71% of all income taxes collected!!! The "bottom" half pay nothing after rebates and kick backs and, in fact, most get more payouts from the IRS than they paid in the first place.
www.marketwatch.com...

The goddamned entitlements and Kept Voter horsecrap must end. This isn't sustainable nor is it even remotely logical to have this many people without actual skin in the game. Atlas is eventually going to droop his shoulders and, when he does, that bottom 50% is utterly and totally boned because they have zero idea of how to handle not being on the dole, the rest of us will survive it and most will come out the other side in massively better shape.

Using Atlas Shrugged as a counterpoint is quite telling. Either you yourself are one of the wealthy ones (which I seriously doubt) or you're not and have been bamboozeled into thinking its best for the ultra-wealthy to become even more 'utra-wealthy' because somehow them getting richer is going to benefit you (here's a hint, its not).

Look at the current system. The wealth has consolidated in the upper 1% to the detrement of the entire country. If you are claiming we should keep on this trend, then eventually you yourself (and your family) will have to be one of the 'undesirables' that should remove themselves from the equation to the betterment of the real earners.

a reply to: Wayfarer


Not to help with the off-topic drift, but "the wealthy" will be just fine, no matter what their tax rate is. The tax code is written by attorneys. The wealthy employ attorneys. Attorneys work together to ensure that the wealth for themselves and their bosses, is maintained...and increased.

I thought Trump Supporters were for change and freedom and independence... but they keep pushing their tired old Health Insurance options into healthcare. That's like me saying Hillary Clinton would be a refreshing new change for politics!

Stop with your tired, old, corrupt, proven failed system that bankrupts people and leaves them to die. Health Insurance is Republican's Hillary Clinton. No one wants it. No one believes in it. We can all see the greed and corruption a mile away.

originally posted by: Dudemo5
What a tool Trump is.

Well, I suppose the good news is that Trump is going to force premiums so high that we'll end up with Single Payer as soon as he's removed from office.

Premiums are already extremely high
The money given has failed at lowering costs and instead ended up in CEO compensation packages and shareholder holders wallets

They cannot increase premiums more than they have since most Americans cannot already afford it
So CEO and shareholders will have to take a paycut is what will happen