Mutiple shooters confirmed by taxi driver footage WE are being lied too.1st 2 Mins vid

originally posted by: iWontGiveUP
Not sure if this has been brought up

What about a single gunnmen with two weapons

Problem is there is 2 distinct gunfire locations so we are trying to figure out if it is a second shooter, police, civilian or just some random drunk dude shooting in the air. Learning towards a second shooter or drunk dude.

originally posted by: Dr UAE
maybe the second shooter is here

Can an ATS expert help us with 1:28 of this vid. Is that really muzzle flash from the 4th floor??

a reply to: TheJesuit

It is a strange incident all together and the preparations and behaviour of the shooter does not make any sense. First of all why stacking all those guns in that room. Just the efoort to bring them up there in the room without being noticed would take several runs... This guy is no retard...confused maybe...but not an idiot.

All these guns are there to be found with the intension to bring an obvious message to the people...The gun crazy citizens. If you ask me this has all happened with one purpose.. To change the opinion of the people about gun ownership.....or to give the US government a reason to change legislation.. This incident is as bizar, brutal as it is pointless for a person to do... It reminds me of the Sandy Hook drama..just as crazy and one should almost say the same signature. It has a certain stink all over it.

originally posted by: ThePeaceMaker
Ok I'm gonna throw my thought out there regarding the 4:57 mark on the video. with the cab driver being so close to the hotel there wouldn't be much of a delay as to the flashing and the gun fire. The flashing (I'm guessing) is a reflection of a flashing light somewhere as at one stage there is flashing but no gun fire.

As to the start of the video .. the more quiet sounding gunfire. Could this be the shooter shooting the window from inside the hotel room. I know the reports are the guy said he had a sledge hammer but I don't thinking a sledge hammer alone would be able to destroy the window considering the window is so high up I'd assume it's made of very strong glass.
So two options, the shooter attempted the smash the window first and failed so turned to a fire arm to finish the job or he shot the window first to weaken it and then used the hammer to clear the window completely

As to the 4th floor 'shooter' I don't believe there is one for two reasons. The first is .. where's the broken window? Secondly being so low to the ground any flashing could be a result of a near by flashing light from somewhere.

Another question .. why are people assuming there had to be a second shooter? Are people saying there is a second shooter based on some of the videos and reports of flashing coming from the 4th floor. Please someone tell me WHY couldn't of this guy simply worked alone

I do not think that people assume that there is a second shooter (I do not anyway) or that Paddock did have an accomplice, I think people are pondering the possibility. And really, the video does seem to suggest that shots were being fired from two different locations.

You are right that Paddock might have shot from further inside the room, however the shots that sounds like it comes from farther away (from the taxi drivers perspective) came after the louder ones, so the window must have been broken at that point.

Honestly, I have no idea of how much the sound would change be him moving about in the hotel room, but to the taxi driver at least it did sound like that shots came from elsewhere.

I agree with you on the 4th-floor thing.

Also if we were to say that there was a second shooting going by the gun fire that sounded further away, then that would mean there was a shooter further away from the hotel so why hasn't anyone come forward saying there was another shooter else where rather than just in the hotel. With the thousands of people in LV at the time someone would of said that there was a second shooter someone else apart from the hotel

a reply to: DupontDeux

Have we considered the angle of the shots?

Is it possible that the shooter shot at a more downward angle initially, but missed or favoured the more target rich environment of the music festival after that, realising his chance to hit was higher because of the close packed crowd?

Its worth pointing out that the precise direction of the shots will have had an affect on the intensity of the report heard, because the majority of the expelled gas from the shot is traveling forward of the muzzle. This is why there is a marked difference between hearing a shot from directly behind, or at 90 degrees to the direction of fire, or ahead of a shooter. Its harder to discern the difference the closer you are, but the further away you get, its easier to note that difference, meaning that the angle of the shot will have had some pretty marked effects, especially when the area the shots were coming from is so acoustically interesting as the building he fired from is.

a reply to: DupontDeux
For the record I'm no expert. I was simply throwing out my thoughts. I don't believe though there was a second shooter. For the gun shots that seemed further away the firing position would of had to been else where .. away from the hotel. But as no one has come forward to say there was another shooter apart from in the hotel then I'm assuming it's just the one shooter

a reply to: bknapple32

The problem with the 4th floor idea is where is the broken window? Until I see a picture of a 4th floor window broken I don't think it is anything significant.... I just had a idea though, what if he used a glass cutting tool with suction cups then just replaced the piece he cut out after it was over?

originally posted by: bknapple32

originally posted by: Dr UAE
maybe the second shooter is here

Can an ATS expert help us with 1:28 of this vid. Is that really muzzle flash from the 4th floor??

I'll be happy to pass my opinion on this video. It's poor quality footage with people speaking over it that are almost convinced that someone was shooting therefore that already makes people watching it believe without actually studying the footage. I believe it's a reflection of one of the many flashing lights in vegas

originally posted by: bknapple32

originally posted by: Dr UAE
maybe the second shooter is here

Can an ATS expert help us with 1:28 of this vid. Is that really muzzle flash from the 4th floor??

Certainly not proof of false flag as claimed - if anything it would be proof of a second shooter, but that hardly makes it a false flag, that just makes it a two man job.

But it could be anything really. Other videos might help determine if this was simply a reflection of one of the bazillion lights in Vegas.

originally posted by: AnonymousTi
a reply to: bknapple32

The problem with the 4th floor idea is where is the broken window? Until I see a picture of a 4th floor window broken I don't think it is anything significant.... I just had a idea though, what if he used a glass cutting tool with suction cups then just replaced the piece he cut out after it was over?

Replacing the glass would of took too much time I would of thought then at the same time he would of had to replace it with the exact same glass that gave off the exact same reflection from the outside. I don't believe in the 4th floor shooter idea

a reply to: ThePeaceMaker

I must say the 4th floor idea has to be ruled out with no breach in the window...

a reply to: TrueBrit

This is why there is a marked difference between hearing a shot from directly behind, or at 90 degrees to the direction of fire, or ahead of a shooter.

Yea that is true. Probably makes more of a difference than the distance but he would have always been shooting towards the same target area. Therefor the position of the barrel is always pointed the same way.

After watching that video that cab lady is a moron

At any rate here is a diagram I made

The shooter and the taxi cab lady at the beginning

She was a soft target and didn't know it

But she did help in the end.. just annoyingly ignorant

a reply to: AnonymousTi

That would be true if he NEVER altered in any small way, his elevation, or whether he was pointing slightly left or right. But if he moved the barrel up, down, left, or right, even a few degrees in any given direction, or fired from slightly further forward, or slightly further back, it will have had an effect on the heard report.

a reply to: bknapple32

No, it's not muzzle flash. You can see the same light in this video from a different angle. It continues to strobe or flash even when the gunfire stops.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: DupontDeux

Have we considered the angle of the shots?

No, I do not think we have, and that is an interesting point!

I do think, though, that the muffled, woolier sound of the "secondary" shots is characteristic of sounds having traveled through a thicker layer of air (i.e. a longer distance). We have the crisp sound of the "primary" shots with which to compare, so we know that it is most likely not simply a muffled recording.

Granted, I have little experience with guns, but I have a bit of experience with (venue) sound, sound testing and acoustics, and usually the crispness is not affected that much by the observer (or listener's) position relative to the sound source.

However, given my lack of experience with guns, I do not know how much of the difference can be accounted for by the "secondary" and "primary" shots being different ammunition fired from different weapons. But I do know, that the (apparent) muffling is consistent with the sounds coming from farther away.

Could you listen again and keep that in mind and give my your opinion on what is most consistent with what you hear; distance or direction?

a reply to: DupontDeux

Those look like muzzle flashes indeed. Its even going with the gun fire. That's about 10-15 floors up?.

Im not ruling out a second shooter or some manchurian candidate type situation. But, from the video as an ex soldier all i can hear is the crack and thump of a single weapon. An onlooker would hear the crack of the rounds as they passed through the air followed by the dull thump noise of the rounds leaving the weapon. You hear the crack first as the round travels faster than sound so bizarrely you hear it leaving the weapon second. Im sure someone may have pointed this out in the thread already as i have not read every post.

Secondly the shooter had gun points from a window each side of a corner suite. If this guy was at one of those corners this gunfire is going to sound very different when the shooter then starts shooting from the other window. That and the fact the echo coming off the surrounding buildings would make it extremely confusing to determine the location.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 2nd shooter in the room hence why the named gunman was found dead and with a small arsenal of weapons. My bet is on a second shooter or multiple shooters in the same room.

a reply to: Gaspode

Possibly, but you can't see any flash from where the 2 broken windows were supposedly and he took a good shot of that area. So where was the gunfire really coming from?