Mutiple shooters confirmed by taxi driver footage WE are being lied too.1st 2 Mins vid

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: flice

I am just making suggestions flice.

Since we are speculating in any case, we could just as easily speculate that someone fired back from the ground, with a personal weapon. Vegas has some of the most relaxed laws on gun ownership and carriage in America, with the only permits being required, in the event that someone wishes to carry a concealed weapon. Its possible that someone fired at the hotel with a weapon they were not permitted to carry concealed, in response to the shots from that direction, and has not come forward to say as much because they fear legal action being bought against them because of the way they carried their weapon.

I think your answer is probably one of the best ones yet. If not civilian it could have been police too. Where was he shooting though? Could it explain the second broken window? he must have completely missed the building... because where would the glass shattering sound be? Perhaps he fired the wrong way in a panic. If it was a concealed carrier it would be pretty hard to hit 32 floors up with a handgun from 400+ yards. Sounds like automatic fire though, would most likely have to be police or a second shooter. Can't believe I didn't think of that.

One shooter

originally posted by: flice

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: TheJesuit
As you can see and hear there is at least two different shooters from just the audio alone it pretty obvious

I wonder how long the media will push" lone gunman" as the footage gets posted will these questions be answered or even addressed

90% ofAmerica is watching MSM its only a few that visit these sites and actually watch .


www.youtube.com...

Thanks for posting, interesting if true.

However, it is a ~20 minute video - could you point to a specific point where it is obvious?

Pretty damn obvious I'd say

Listen to the audio at 0.40...

Then listen again at 1.07...

Pretty big difference. And before you say "echo" at 0.40, please tell me from what. If the sounds from 0.40 are echoes, I would expect shots of the same magnitude as those at 1.07, 1-2 secs before 0.40... but there are none.

Wow, yeah, that IS obvious!

If this video is without fakery, and if there is no obvious alternative to a weapon making that noise, I would say that there was without doubt fired shots from another location.

Whether it was an accomplice is less certain though. Nevada is an open carry state, so it MIGHT be someone desperately aiming at the shooter. Instinctively I would go with an accomplice though.

Ever been to Vegas? There are LARGE, glass-covered buildings sprinkled all over with odd shapes and orientation. That would create an exceptionally complex array of reflections. The shooter, simply by varying the angle of the weapon or the degree to which it is outside the surface of the window would dramatically affect the sound at a distance. He was a long way up at 32 floors and that places the source of the sound far away from this recording. Additionally, information from on-scene witnesses says there was a distinct change in the sound of the weapon at one point indicating that he had switched to a different gun.

a reply to: DupontDeux

Yup I would have to agree if not another shooter than it could have been the police.

originally posted by: AnonymousTi
a reply to: DupontDeux

Yup I would have to agree if not another shooter than it could have been the police.

I would expect a lot of smashed windows around Stephens window then from return fire?

I mean, if that distant fire, which sounds like an automatic, was coming from a police riffle, shooting up against Stephen in the window, at that low angle, I would be VERY surprised if those bullets landed in his window alone.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: flice

I am just making suggestions flice.

Since we are speculating in any case, we could just as easily speculate that someone fired back from the ground, with a personal weapon.

I agree.

However, somewhat ironically, if someone *did* shoot back from the street, you would expect every outlet to break a second shooter-story.

And later on you would expect to hear the sympathetic story of the desperate attempt of a passerby to stop the shooter - or the negative story about how open carry led to police being unsure about the number of shooters or the shooter's location, thus maybe causing more lives to have been lost.

Both 'sides' would want to carry that story.


If, on the other hand the second shooter was shooting from a building it would be less obvious from the ground, that there was a second shooter, so only those position like the taxi driver in the video would notice.

However, it would be be VERY noticeable for those positioned like her, so if there were a second shooter, they would not have intended for it to be secret.

So .. yeah .. I don't know.

originally posted by: flice

originally posted by: AnonymousTi
a reply to: DupontDeux

Yup I would have to agree if not another shooter than it could have been the police.

I would expect a lot of smashed windows around Stephens window then from return fire?

I mean, if that distant fire, which sounds like an automatic, was coming from a police riffle, shooting up against Stephen in the window, at that low angle, I would be VERY surprised if those bullets landed in his window alone.

Yeah true he would have to be quite a marksman... and it's not like it was sniper fire or anything either. I think you could be right. It's really starting to look like a another shooter at a second location somewhere around the festival.

a reply to: AnonymousTi

AnonymousTi,

Its also Vegas, remember? Party town? Now, it would be great to think that every person carrying a gun is sober when they do it, but there are an awful lot of bars, access to drugs... Imagine... guy staggers out of a bar or away from where hes just taken a hit of something crazy, gun on his hip... Now he hears automatic fire, and thinking he is John McLane, dumps a magazine at the building, assuming he is going to hit the target, at which point they ought to explode gratuitously...

Weirder things have happened in Vegas than that.

Forensics by YouTube. Who would have imagined it was possible?

originally posted by: flice

originally posted by: AnonymousTi
a reply to: DupontDeux

Yup I would have to agree if not another shooter than it could have been the police.

I would expect a lot of smashed windows around Stephens window then from return fire?

I mean, if that distant fire, which sounds like an automatic, was coming from a police riffle, shooting up against Stephen in the window, at that low angle, I would be VERY surprised if those bullets landed in his window alone.

That is a really good point.

It does not rule out 'defensive shooting' though - it might simply be someone shooting 'defensively', perhaps in panic, in a completely wrong direction.

But yes, the apparent fact that the shots was not aimed at Paddock, suggests that the second shooter was aiming at someone else - and the only place we know bullets have hit is in the crowd.

It this point to me it looks like there is a second bad guy.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: AnonymousTi

AnonymousTi,

Its also Vegas, remember? Party town? Now, it would be great to think that every person carrying a gun is sober when they do it, but there are an awful lot of bars, access to drugs... Imagine... guy staggers out of a bar or away from where hes just taken a hit of something crazy, gun on his hip... Now he hears automatic fire, and thinking he is John McLane, dumps a magazine at the building, assuming he is going to hit the target, at which point they ought to explode gratuitously...

Weirder things have happened in Vegas than that.

Haha yeah I could see that happening but it is a little weird the distant shots came first. Hard to say how soon she started recording the video since the shots started ringing off though.

a reply to: AnonymousTi

Indeed.

I can think of six things I would be thinking about and trying to do, WAAAAY before getting my camera working to record the event, assuming I was in the same position.

originally posted by: AnonymousTi

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: AnonymousTi

AnonymousTi,

Its also Vegas, remember? Party town? Now, it would be great to think that every person carrying a gun is sober when they do it, but there are an awful lot of bars, access to drugs... Imagine... guy staggers out of a bar or away from where hes just taken a hit of something crazy, gun on his hip... Now he hears automatic fire, and thinking he is John McLane, dumps a magazine at the building, assuming he is going to hit the target, at which point they ought to explode gratuitously...

Weirder things have happened in Vegas than that.

Haha yeah I could see that happening but it is a little weird the distant shots came first. Hard to say how soon she started recording the video since the shots started ringing off though.

It is apparent from what the taxi drivers says that the shooting had started before she started recording. Also, she says:

"Now it sounds like it's comming from .. uhm .. farther away"

which suggests that the initial shots were the close ones.

Ok I'm gonna throw my thought out there regarding the 4:57 mark on the video. with the cab driver being so close to the hotel there wouldn't be much of a delay as to the flashing and the gun fire. The flashing (I'm guessing) is a reflection of a flashing light somewhere as at one stage there is flashing but no gun fire.

As to the start of the video .. the more quiet sounding gunfire. Could this be the shooter shooting the window from inside the hotel room. I know the reports are the guy said he had a sledge hammer but I don't thinking a sledge hammer alone would be able to destroy the window considering the window is so high up I'd assume it's made of very strong glass.
So two options, the shooter attempted the smash the window first and failed so turned to a fire arm to finish the job or he shot the window first to weaken it and then used the hammer to clear the window completely

As to the 4th floor 'shooter' I don't believe there is one for two reasons. The first is .. where's the broken window? Secondly being so low to the ground any flashing could be a result of a near by flashing light from somewhere.

Another question .. why are people assuming there had to be a second shooter? Are people saying there is a second shooter based on some of the videos and reports of flashing coming from the 4th floor. Please someone tell me WHY couldn't of this guy simply worked alone

jeez....yeah, why believe what the authorities say....does it ever occur to members here that not everything is a conspiracy....most of the times it's exactly how they say it happened.....fear and/or rage are the culprits, regardless of the setting or act committed, and regardless if it's real or imagined.

And remember the gun man had two shooting positions. The taxi driver started filming after the first initial bursts of fire. Perhaps the gunman started shooting from his 1st position hence the louder sounds of gun shots and then moved to the second position, shooting out the window first. With an already broken window in the room the gun fire inside the room as he shot out the second window may of been heard but was more quiet as the sound escaping the room from the first broken window

Not sure if this has been brought up

What about a single gunnmen with two weapons

a reply to: DupontDeux

Ah nice, that means it doesn't rule out TrueBrit's idea.

originally posted by: Dr UAE
maybe the second shooter is here

Can an ATS expert help us with 1:28 of this vid. Is that really muzzle flash from the 4th floor??