I'd Guess maybe 5 Percent of those who watch the NFL stand for the Anthem. The hypocrisy is HUGE

originally posted by: roadgravel

Since I guess you think the most perfect time and place to protest is at a live NFL game, during the National Anthem, right?

It seems to be a good time for a protest given the result.

Protests are OK except when (fill in the blank).

(Constituionally protected) protests are ok except when.... they hurt people's feelings?

Was reading today the New Orleans Saints are gonna kneel then stand during the anthem, of course the game is in London so if it was gonna get some backlash, it wont be live.

Then being the Saints they have decided when they play "God save the Queen" they are going to kneel and then stand and then put their right foot in and put their left foot out and put their right foot in and shake it all about and do do the Hokey Pokey and turn themselves around cause thats what it is all about.

and yea I had to sing this so I could write it down properly LOL.

Seriously though I'd like to hear what the American men and women over in Afghanistan,Iraq or elsewhere around the world currently serving our country think. I'd like to know the ones getting shot at or watching for IED's or those on watch to see if thats China or North Korea approaching the 54th parallel really could give a rats arse either way. They probably have way more important stuff on their minds, and you know what I think both sides here should have way more important things to worry about too. The main reason collectively we dont want to be this divided,or way to angry here stateside, and it's easy to forget these men and women who are getting maimed and killed so we can argue about a football game.

BTW I'm against the protests, but understand them as well. I can remember the fists in the air at the Olympics I'm sure there was outrage and thoughts they are tearing country apart. It didn't then and it isn't going to now. All it does now is you got one segment going I'm really pissed off and conveying it so well that all its doing is making another segment go now I'm pissed of too but not at what you are piss off at but at how you are communicating it. You can see how chit can snowball from here. Especially with the media whipping it into a frenzy. Lets all try and find things we can mostly all agree on. What most of the media wants is the friction,strife and conflict it sells, people watch it, read it and go click click click all night on their computers. As with most things just because somebody doesn't agree with you on this issue it doesn't make them an idiot and make where they need to suck a bag of somethings. Collectively take a deep breath "Murica" we are much better than this

Peace oooooouuut.

Silent protests taking nothing away from anyone are OK except when authoritarian zealots want to dictate how another American honors our country (and when Mr. Trump disagrees of course).

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: fencesitter85

It's not about free speech...it's about respecting your country, vets and servicemen and women.

that's why the kneeling, to show that respect.

since you're big on collecting anecdotal evidence, my active servicemember husband is fine with it. as the spouse of an active servicemember, i support it.

just wanted to update your 'evidence' collection -- my dad, a navy vet, just posted on facebook that the nfl should be boycotted until everyone stands for the anthem.

of course my dad doesn't watch football and has never watched football, so make of that what you will.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: tjack

Are we to now argue the definition of the word "present"?

Apparently? Your post.

originally posted by: tjack
Anyone cite flag code yet? It states "all present"

If you are hearing the national anthem, then you are present for the national anthem.

You can say it doesn't count when it is broadcast via a television. But that makes no sense, because many, if not most, sporting events broadcast the national anthem as a recording. Obviously flag code does not specify it must be a live performance of the anthem.

Put very simply..If you are listening to the National Anthem, then you are very plainly present for the national anthem. Whether you are 10 feet from the broadcast source, in the back row of the stadium, or at home, you remain "present" where you are for the National Anthem.

YOU are the one citing pseudo-legalese of "flag code".
I thought it was a ridiculous argument.
Just wanted to point out if you are going to debate flag code's legal language, then you fail there.

legal definition of present

a reply to: tjack

Appeal to Definition - Logically Fallacious

Again, the "flag code" or 36 USC really should have zero bearing on honoring our Nation, our People, and our Armed Services.

It is a matter of heart not rules (that really don't apply to anyone except perhaps soldiers).

You feel what you feel when the Anthem plays. It's not about a public performance in front of other people, or, it shouldn't be.

These players have found a way to express respect for America while expressing concern about Americans being treated unequally before the law.

If you don't like it, you don't like it. Goodness knows the world is full of things we don't like and don't agree with.

Again, though ... grow up. Stop trying to control what others do; learn some boundaries.

Not about the anthem. Not about sitting or kneeling. It's about bringing politics--left or right--into my sports experience. I despise all politics, but when a handful of wealthy players decide to sit and the media talks about it the entire game, it's no fun and I tune out.

I'm pissed at players and media for keeping side show going---but I get it now--NFL players hate America. That's OK. I no longer like the NFL. Everybody's even.

a reply to: Zoyd23

Someone who disagrees with you hates America?

That's kinda silly.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Some people in other countries see the American flag as a sign of war and oppression.

Good for them.

My point is the flag can mean different things to different people, who is anyone to tell someone else what they should believe something represents?

Who is anyone to push a false narrative on the paying fans who showed up to watch a game for entertainment?

Just because some dude a few hundred years ago said the flag represents "this" does not mean that everyone believes the same or should. If you want to dictate to others what they should believe then that makes you a dictator. Do you want to be seen as a dictator?

The national anthem is a song about a fort siege where the flag pole did not break because some people died defending their nation and its symbol. It doesn't directly define the flag itself, it's designed to be inspirational to the people of this country by virtue of cooperation and unity. To choose that time to stand apart sends a signal to the crowd that the 'protester' doesn't want any part of that cooperation and unity.

And yet they seem confused when the crowd (ie paying customers) reacts negatively to their decision to stand apart.

I still think that more than half of the people 'taking a knee' have no freaking clue what they are doing in the first place and are just supporting their team-mates, while the other half is misinformed/ignorant of the reality of the USA and the world.

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: roadgravel

Since I guess you think the most perfect time and place to protest is at a live NFL game, during the National Anthem, right?

It seems to be a good time for a protest given the result.

Protests are OK except when (fill in the blank).

(Constituionally protected) protests are ok except when.... they hurt people's feelings?

Good one on the "feelings" smh.

Their protest is protected, but during a live game in front of the US flag during the National Anthem is very misguided and shows that you are against the ideals and values of America.

Why would any American disagree?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

The national anthem is a song about a fort siege where the flag pole did not break because some people died defending their nation and its symbol. It doesn't directly define the flag itself, it's designed to be inspirational to the people of this country by virtue of cooperation and unity. To choose that time to stand apart sends a signal to the crowd that the 'protester' doesn't want any part of that cooperation and unity.

Yeah. About that ...

What amazing unity in Stanzas Three and Four, eh?

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation!
Blest with vict'ry and peace may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the power that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto - "In God is our trust,"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

a reply to: kyleplatinum

How does showing respect to the Flag and making a statement about Americans who aren't treated equally act against the ideals and values of America again?

How dare you think, speak, look, act, and/or believe differently than I do you flag disrespecting, troop offending, America hater.

Now let me get back to my safe space... I mean "sports experience" where everyone thinks, speaks, looks, and/or believes exactly the same as the rest of us flag respecting, troop loving, American patriots.

originally posted by: ColoradoJens
How many of you who are so outraged stand, take off your hat, and put your hand over your heart in your living room when it is played?

Your rant doesn't mean much when you don't even know that you're not supposed to put your hand over your heart for the playing of the National Anthem. You only put your hand over your heart when you're pledging something. Like, oh I don't know - the Pledge of Allegiance? If you don't know anything, why do you expect people to listen to you?

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind

originally posted by: ColoradoJens
How many of you who are so outraged stand, take off your hat, and put your hand over your heart in your living room when it is played?

Your rant doesn't mean much when you don't even know that you're not supposed to put your hand over your heart for the playing of the National Anthem. You only put your hand over your heart when you're pledging something. Like, oh I don't know - the Pledge of Allegiance? If you don't know anything, why do you expect people to listen to you?

Really now?

(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.

36 USC S 301 - National anthem

a reply to: ColoradoJens
"Ah, it's ONLY about the players standing - not you when you don't. Got it - there is another one."

So you're telling me you stand every time I play the National Anthem in my house? No? Then that would make you the ultimate hypocrite, according to your way of thinking. Do you ever stand during the National Anthem? Anywhere?

a reply to: FraggleRock

Could be a fear that in the future this will lead to the Lombardi Trophy being replaced with a small statue to every player engraved with "Participated in the Super Bowl".

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind

Your rant doesn't mean much when you don't even know that you're not supposed to put your hand over your heart for the playing of the National Anthem. You only put your hand over your heart when you're pledging something. Like, oh I don't know - the Pledge of Allegiance? If you don't know anything, why do you expect people to listen to you?

Somebody should have told these people (about 5:30 in)

If they don't know anything, why should they expect people to listen to them.

originally posted by: tjack

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: tjack

Are we to now argue the definition of the word "present"?

Apparently? Your post.

originally posted by: tjack
Anyone cite flag code yet? It states "all present"

If you are hearing the national anthem, then you are present for the national anthem.

You can say it doesn't count when it is broadcast via a television. But that makes no sense, because many, if not most, sporting events broadcast the national anthem as a recording. Obviously flag code does not specify it must be a live performance of the anthem.

Put very simply..If you are listening to the National Anthem, then you are very plainly present for the national anthem. Whether you are 10 feet from the broadcast source, in the back row of the stadium, or at home, you remain "present" where you are for the National Anthem.

YOU are the one citing pseudo-legalese of "flag code".
I thought it was a ridiculous argument.
Just wanted to point out if you are going to debate flag code's legal language, then you fail there.

legal definition of present

Holy crap!

Let's talk flag code then!

US Flag Code: Chapter 10.176C

“The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.”




Fo effs sake it is like the GOP is manufacturing stupid people like China cranks out plastic trinkets.